Author Topic: Found an unusual energy saving SBMH lamp with an A65 shape in Philips website  (Read 4031 times)
dor123
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Found an unusual energy saving SBMH lamp with an A65 shape in Philips website « on: January 25, 2012, 07:29:30 AM » Author: dor123
Link: http://www.philips.com/l/lamps/compact-high-intensity-discharge/mastercolour-cdm/mastercolour-cdm-i-a65/61213/cat/
It looks like a pear shaped energy saving CFL, but it is actually a self ballasted MH lamp with an integrated electronic ballast for home use (An advanced version of the GE Electronic Halarc Miser Maxi-Light SBMH).
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Re: Found an unusual energy saving SBMH lamp with an A65 shape in Philips website « Reply #1 on: January 25, 2012, 01:57:46 PM » Author: SOX55W
I approve!  Looks like it's a brand new product, as the technical data sheet is dated 14 Jan 2012.  I wonder how much they will cost.  It only has a 60% lumen maintenance at 8000 hrs, but has roughly 20 lm/w more efficacy than a typical 23W CFL.
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Re: Found an unusual energy saving SBMH lamp with an A65 shape in Philips website « Reply #2 on: January 25, 2012, 04:04:25 PM » Author: LowPressureSodiumSOX
I like self ballast MH lamps, but what about the hot restrike problems? (They are still much more efficient though).
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Re: Found an unusual energy saving SBMH lamp with an A65 shape in Philips website « Reply #3 on: January 25, 2012, 04:15:42 PM » Author: SOX55W
They're probably meant for commercial retail type applications where they are on all day.  That wouldn't stop me from using one in my room, but I have a feeling they will be very expensive.
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Re: Found an unusual energy saving SBMH lamp with an A65 shape in Philips website « Reply #4 on: January 25, 2012, 05:37:27 PM » Author: Ash
....To the extent where the users will prefer proper MH fixtures over SBMH ?
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Re: Found an unusual energy saving SBMH lamp with an A65 shape in Philips website « Reply #5 on: January 25, 2012, 06:00:32 PM » Author: Medved
I'm really curious, how much would these cost...
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Re: Found an unusual energy saving SBMH lamp with an A65 shape in Philips website « Reply #6 on: January 25, 2012, 06:53:53 PM » Author: SOX55W
The self ballasted PAR CMH lamps on 1000bulbs go for about $80 each.  :o  I don't see these lamps going anywhere at that price. Not at 8000 hrs life.

I wish induction would gain traction in the US. As long as they can make ballasts that last, the technology is brilliant!
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Re: Found an unusual energy saving SBMH lamp with an A65 shape in Philips website « Reply #7 on: January 26, 2012, 01:27:41 AM » Author: Ash
80$ O_o i can allmost buy a complete MH floodlight for this cost
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Re: Found an unusual energy saving SBMH lamp with an A65 shape in Philips website « Reply #8 on: January 26, 2012, 03:00:25 AM » Author: Medved
I wish induction would gain traction in the US. As long as they can make ballasts that last, the technology is brilliant!

I don't think it would make much sense.
Electrodes could be made so, they do not limit the lamp life anymore - classic tubes with life of about 75kHours/70% survival rate are sold already few years by few companies and there is no reason to not use them in CFL's. The 75kHour is way beyond the capability of any electronic operated such hot. Moreover the induction is way more demanding for the electronic, what mean the lifetime would be always way shorter.
If the lamp is of an integrated concept, here is always problem with the hot running tight enclosure of the electronic and the electronic is the limiting factor, preventing from going beyond about 20kHours at best.

Inductions suffer from limited coupling efficiency, dependent on the surrounding materials (close proximity of iron sheet redirect lot of power into heating that iron sheet), regular losses are about 20% in free air. On the other hand hot cathode losses are usually about 10..15% and do not depend on anything around the lamp.
Other losses are associated with the generation of the rather high frequency (switching losses, the need to use faster power switching component with higher conductive losses - hot electrode fluoros could easily operate at 30..50kHz, what suffice with soft switching bipolar transistors offering Vcesat at about 0.2V or below, so low conductive losses, while the 250kHz induction need fast MOSes with voltage drops about 1V, so about 4..5x higher conduction losses, so about 2..3x total losses...)

Moreover the inductions are limited to rather thick tubes (low voltage drop, high currents in the arc, possibility to ignite), what mean lot of UV selfabsorbtion in the mercury and/or high current density, while hot cathode lamps could be easily shaped into thin, long tubes, where the selfabsorbtion is reduced while still maintaining rather low current density.


In fact cathode designs are used so the cathodes are no more the weakest point of the whole lamp assembly and with that achievement the disadvantages of the inductions outweight their advantages.
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dor123
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Re: Found an unusual energy saving SBMH lamp with an A65 shape in Philips website « Reply #9 on: January 26, 2012, 02:03:54 PM » Author: dor123
I hope that these SBMH lamps will be available in Israel, since even though it is less efficient and much more expensive than a regular CMH lamps, they still have +20lm/W more than a CFL.
Also this lamp is the only way to have a MH lamp for experiments in my hostel or my parents homes, instead of buying a horribly expensive MH fixture or downlighter, or to enable physical effort, and scavenge a lantern or a floodlight, which my hostel or my parents, willn't allow to me to do, as i haven't an advanced experience on electricity.
Indeed, the presiding of my hostel (Equivalent to the adminstrator in a forum), don't allows me to open fixtures in my hostel and to remove worn out bulbs from them, even if this is a very simple thing to do with electricity, which most people know to do without an advanced experience on electricity.
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Re: Found an unusual energy saving SBMH lamp with an A65 shape in Philips website « Reply #10 on: January 26, 2012, 03:32:57 PM » Author: SOX55W
That's also the beauty of SBMV lamps, as they are easy to use, although the fire inspector might still consider it a safety violation even though it is not listed in the handbook of disallowed electrical devices (school housing... ::) ). Well, it doesn't have an open flame, and it's not a halogen... That would be an interesting encounter trying to get out of a fine because it wasn't explicitly designated as illegal. They probably wouldn't even know what it was.  :mv:
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Re: Found an unusual energy saving SBMH lamp with an A65 shape in Philips website « Reply #11 on: January 26, 2012, 03:38:20 PM » Author: LowPressureSodiumSOX
A such MH lamp's ballast isn't probably made from such high quality materials, which also explains its slightly lower efficiency.
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Re: Found an unusual energy saving SBMH lamp with an A65 shape in Philips website « Reply #12 on: January 26, 2012, 04:14:31 PM » Author: Ash
Component quality does not affect efficiency in electronic ballasts - even the cheapest ones are very efficient

However the lamp itself (arc tube / CFL tube) can be made cheaper at the expense of efficiency (lower pressure in MH = lower efficiency but also lower chance of explosion --> cutting costs on arc tube quality) or its design can be intentionally compromised to allow for the cheapness of the ballast (reduced starting voltage...)
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Re: Found an unusual energy saving SBMH lamp with an A65 shape in Philips website « Reply #13 on: January 27, 2012, 03:11:50 AM » Author: dor123
However the lamp itself (arc tube / CFL tube) can be made cheaper at the expense of efficiency (lower pressure in MH = lower efficiency but also lower chance of explosion --> cutting costs on arc tube quality) or its design can be intentionally compromised to allow for the cheapness of the ballast (reduced starting voltage...)
Lower halides pressure also means poor CRI.
They can reduce the starting voltage in a simple way: They can replace the argon + the mildly radioactive krypton85 in the arctube to neon-argon penning mixture, like the Philips HPI MH lamps and most HPS retrofits for MV ballasts. This will lower the ignition voltage of the lamp to only 750V.
Unlike the quartz arctube, the neon willn't diffuse from the ceramic arctube and it isn't necessary to fill the outerbulb of a CMH lamp with neon-nitrogen atmosphere, when a neon is used in the ceramic arctube.
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I"m don't speak English well, and rely on online translating to write in this site.
Please forgive me if my choice of my words looks like offensive, while that isn't my intention.

I only working with the international date format (dd.mm.yyyy).

I lives in Israel, which is a 220-240V, 50hz country.

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