Author Topic: No LED  (Read 1920 times)
wattMaster
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No LED « on: September 07, 2016, 02:14:58 PM » Author: wattMaster
In the warehouse with the double highbays, the person there said that it would likely be demolished by January.
But then he said that it will be given to him, or at least that's what I heard.
Then he said that the new warehouse will be lit by LED, then I tried to explain that LED is just marketing, and isn't more efficient.
I then told him about this website(Lighting-Gallery.net).
He says that he will try to save some of the double highbays for me.
He also said that he wished he didn't throw out this fluorescent desk lamp.
He says that he has no say in getting the LED away from the new warehouse, but the question here is:

Can you make a statement that I could maybe copy and send to the city to not use LED?
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Re: No LED « Reply #1 on: September 07, 2016, 02:39:58 PM » Author: Ash
I think it is a mistake to bring here people as a resource for LED/noLED debates. This is a gallery website dedicated to all sorts of lighting, including not the latest or most efficient types. So the impression is, that the decisions made here are based on personal preference rather than clear advantages/disadvantages

Basically, the reasoning i can give is :

LEDs are a potential source of Blue Light hazard due to their spectral output. No other type of lamp in general application poses a health risk resulting from its visible light output

LEDs spectrum is not optimal to see with, the other white light sources provide wider spectrum

Many LED luminaires have higher glare than comparable luminaires using other lamp technologies

LEDs are energy saving, but not necessarily any more so than other and better technologies : Triphosphor Fluorescents on Electronic ballasts, CMH and HPS

Many LEDs are not made servicable, requiring complete luminaire replacement at great costs in case of early failure (which might or might not be the fault of the LEDs themselfes, for example it may be a result of surge on the power line), and ten possibly resulting in a luminaire that stands out from the rest, while for other lamp types the lamp and the gear are replacable separatey from the luminaire
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wattMaster
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Re: No LED « Reply #2 on: September 07, 2016, 02:43:27 PM » Author: wattMaster
I'll have to tell him sometime.
And having LED in warehouses just seems like a bad thing to do.
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Re: No LED « Reply #3 on: September 07, 2016, 03:13:28 PM » Author: Lumex120
I think it is a mistake to bring here people as a resource for LED/noLED debates. This is a gallery website dedicated to all sorts of lighting, including not the latest or most efficient types. So the impression is, that the decisions made here are based on personal preference rather than clear advantages/disadvantages

Basically, the reasoning i can give is :

LEDs are a potential source of Blue Light hazard due to their spectral output. No other type of lamp in general application poses a health risk resulting from its visible light output

LEDs spectrum is not optimal to see with, the other white light sources provide wider spectrum

Many LED luminaires have higher glare than comparable luminaires using other lamp technologies

LEDs are energy saving, but not necessarily any more so than other and better technologies : Triphosphor Fluorescents on Electronic ballasts, CMH and HPS

Many LEDs are not made servicable, requiring complete luminaire replacement at great costs in case of early failure (which might or might not be the fault of the LEDs themselfes, for example it may be a result of surge on the power line), and ten possibly resulting in a luminaire that stands out from the rest, while for other lamp types the lamp and the gear are replacable separatey from the luminaire
I am pretty sure that BLH is a myth, so that isn't something you should use.



Some reasons I can think of are-

1. While LEDs are touted as "high-efficiency", there are more efficient options available. One of these is PSMH.

2. Unless this is an air conditioned warehouse, it is going to get hot in there with Florida heat. Don't expect them to last long in those conditions.

3. When the light dims out or fails, it cannot be repaired or relamped and therefore it turns into a low efficiency disaster.

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Re: No LED « Reply #4 on: September 07, 2016, 03:46:38 PM » Author: Ash
The Blue Light Hazard in regards to general lighting is being researched, so far few times there were conclusions that there is "something" atleast, so a myth it is not. If it would be myth, nobody would be able to show any findings at all

As i understand it part of the dispute is about "how much is bad". While some figures show risks (researches based on which there have been recommendations published in France to stay away from LEDs), and some others claim that the former are BS (the favorites of LED manufacturers, and possibly sponsored by them too). Guess which are more likely to be reliable

Finally, it takes as much as common sense really to place the LED spectrum plot and eye sensitivity plot on top of each other and see where is the potential problem
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wattMaster
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Re: No LED « Reply #5 on: September 07, 2016, 06:26:58 PM » Author: wattMaster
And then it isn't so efficient?
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Re: No LED « Reply #6 on: September 07, 2016, 06:37:29 PM » Author: RyanF40T12
You are wasting your time and efforts in trying to convince others not to go the LED route.  LEDs are here to stay and to replace HPS, MH, and MV.  There is nothing you can do about it.  Stop trying.  Believe me, one day you will look back on all of this and wonder why you were so stubborn and bull headed.  I reached that point about a year or two ago.  Before then I was dead set on LEDs being the most evil thing ever. 
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Re: No LED « Reply #7 on: September 07, 2016, 06:57:55 PM » Author: wattMaster
You are wasting your time and efforts in trying to convince others not to go the LED route.  LEDs are here to stay and to replace HPS, MH, and MV.  There is nothing you can do about it.  Stop trying.  Believe me, one day you will look back on all of this and wonder why you were so stubborn and bull headed.  I reached that point about a year or two ago.  Before then I was dead set on LEDs being the most evil thing ever. 
Maybe a better idea is to get all of the old double highbays saved, rather than being thrown out.
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Re: No LED « Reply #8 on: September 07, 2016, 08:31:04 PM » Author: Lumex120
You are wasting your time and efforts in trying to convince others not to go the LED route.  LEDs are here to stay and to replace HPS, MH, and MV.  There is nothing you can do about it.  Stop trying.  Believe me, one day you will look back on all of this and wonder why you were so stubborn and bull headed.  I reached that point about a year or two ago.  Before then I was dead set on LEDs being the most evil thing ever. 
I hope you haven't contracted LEDisease too... (see what I did there?)
I was the complete opposite on my LED opinion. I used to think they were great and that HID sucked and was happy to see them being installed. However, my opinion started to change when I was noticing the wattages claiming to replace HID were WAY off. For example a 1300 lumen 35w LED wallpack was rated to replace 400w 40,000 lumen PSMH. Then I saw that they weren't reusing the old streetlights they removed, they were just trashing them. And THEN I found out that LED fixtures can't be repaired when they fail. There are lots more reasons as to why I think they are inferior but those are the top reasons.
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Re: No LED « Reply #9 on: September 08, 2016, 06:37:35 AM » Author: RyanF40T12
THe LED cobra heads they are using around here are very much able to have failed components removed and replacements put in.. As I bet are most of the modern LED commercial fixtures now.  Which probably was not the case with the first/early generation. 
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Re: No LED « Reply #10 on: September 08, 2016, 06:58:48 AM » Author: Ash
Replaced with a spare part specific for the same luminaire or an industry standard part ? Big difference
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Re: No LED « Reply #11 on: September 08, 2016, 12:19:30 PM » Author: wattMaster
A while ago, I felt that LED should be everywhere, and loved it for everything. Now it's the opposite.
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Re: No LED « Reply #12 on: September 08, 2016, 01:16:30 PM » Author: mdcastle
It's not like they fix the HID luminaires around here anyway. If it doesn't light with a new lamp and photocell in goes a new fixture and the old one goes to recycling.

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Re: No LED « Reply #13 on: September 08, 2016, 06:10:32 PM » Author: RyanF40T12
Over here- If anything was wrong with one of the HPS fixtures minus the bulb or photocell, they would pull the head off and put another head on and I assume take the old head back to the shop where it would be repaired or parted out I assume.  Just takes 2 min to pull loosen the mounting bolts and clip the wires, 2 more min to put on the replacement head.  And waalah.  I would imagine they would do the same for the LEDs as well. 
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Re: No LED « Reply #14 on: September 08, 2016, 08:12:31 PM » Author: nicksfans
"Maybe a better idea is to get all of the old double highbays saved, rather than being thrown out."

Yes, do that. Wink
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