Author Topic: Reproduction Circlarc Tubes  (Read 2368 times)
circlarcguy
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Reproduction Circlarc Tubes « on: October 03, 2016, 08:38:17 AM » Author: circlarcguy
Hi everyone,

I am an antique enthusiast that collects and commissions antique appliances and cars. Nearly everything I own and use is antique. So while I am interested in and appreciate antique lighting, I am not an expert.

I have recently purchased an NOS ceiling light fixture that takes a pair of circlarc tubes. The fixture is exactly like the one found here: http://www.lighting-gallery.net/gallery/displayimage.php?album=search&cat=0&pos=9&pid=65999

I need tubes for it, so I have been talking to a manufacturer about reproducing them. This site is the only site I can find with information and enthusiasts regarding these tubes and I need to get an idea of what the demand for these tubes is like. I would need to spend thousands of dollars to have these made and I don't want to be out all that money while stuck with tons of tubes that no one wants.

What I'm asking for is an idea of what these are worth to people, and how many are needed. Do you have a fixture that needs tubes? Would you prefer to run reproduction tubes over vintage ones? How many would you be willing to buy in about 8 weeks and at what price? Any help and /or advice is most welcome. Thank you in advance.
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Re: Reproduction Circlarc Tubes « Reply #1 on: October 03, 2016, 04:22:29 PM » Author: nicksfans
There have been talks among members here about possibly reproducing Circlarc tubes, but I don't think anyone has gotten as far as you have. I think there are only maybe 3-5 members here who have Circlarc fixtures (and I'm not one of them), so I wouldn't expect a lot of demand. I can tell you, however, that if I had Circlarc fixtures, I'd much rather use reproduction tubes than original ones, which are extremely scarce.

Also, I'm not sure if you've considered this, but there would probably be more demand for reproduction F90T17 tubes than Circlarc tubes. The prices of F90T17s are becoming astronomical, and if you could get some made for $20-25 per tube or less, I have a feeling you'd have some buyers.
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Medved
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Re: Reproduction Circlarc Tubes « Reply #2 on: October 03, 2016, 11:30:07 PM » Author: Medved
Also, I'm not sure if you've considered this, but there would probably be more demand for reproduction F90T17 tubes than Circlarc tubes. The prices of F90T17s are becoming astronomical, and if you could get some made for $20-25 per tube or less, I have a feeling you'd have some buyers.

Don't expect any such low volume batch would be any cheaper. I don't think there will be any budget for anything more than just the tooling, yet these arc replicas would be in fact a new lamp development with no budget at all (so I don't think it would be anything else than taking some existing lamp design, adjust the length a bit, bend it into the arc and hope the electrical characteristic are at leas somehow compatible with the existing ballasts; the old recipes are useless, as the needed internal components are no longer made, machinery not available,...).
My guess: When we are talking about 100 piece batch, the unity cost would be in the range of $10..$20 just on the factory door. Plus an individual transport and you have easily $30 per lamp. There is no way to make it significantly cheaper, unless you will be really able to sell 10k units or more...

The cost of F96 comes mainly from their transport (it is very long and fragile thing), that part would would be way more expensive with an individual shipment.
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Re: Reproduction Circlarc Tubes « Reply #3 on: October 04, 2016, 01:41:44 AM » Author: Ash
$20/lamp for 100 lamp batch means $2000 to set up a lamp production line. Thats legendary cheap for setting up a lamp production line - What expenses does this actually cover from the factory's point of view ?

Can such lamp be rather made by cutting and resealing existing circlines ?
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Medved
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Re: Reproduction Circlarc Tubes « Reply #4 on: October 04, 2016, 08:37:19 AM » Author: Medved
$20/lamp for 100 lamp batch means $2000 to set up a lamp production line. Thats legendary cheap for setting up a lamp production line - What expenses does this actually cover from the factory's point of view ?
Depends on how the line is designed. It could be just some bending angle adjustment, socket distance adjustment (using jigs for U-shaped lamps), tube length,...
Indeed, the $2000 won't allow that much more...

I would expect the whole thing to be quite good student education project - student goes through the lamp redesign, setting up (an older and less used) production line, till a batch is really produced. So to a big extend covered by money intended for the education (many companies do that, as it allows them to pick up the good candidates for future employees way before the others). Of course, that alone would not allow any subsidized commercial sale, so if the lamps are to be sold, significant contribution (the 1..2 k$) to the set up cost has to be made as well and covered from the sale...
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Re: Reproduction Circlarc Tubes « Reply #5 on: October 04, 2016, 09:51:36 AM » Author: Lumex120
Making the lamps alone just for the few fixtures that still exist would be a waste. If they are going to make new circlarc lamps, it would be a good idea to probably make reproduction circlarc fixtures too. It could easily be done with some metalwork and a 14-15-20w preheat choke.
(also maybe re-make sausage heater lamps or Lumilines?)
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circlarcguy
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Re: Reproduction Circlarc Tubes « Reply #6 on: October 04, 2016, 11:59:49 AM » Author: circlarcguy
@ nicksfans: Thanks for the feedback. My motivation is driven by my own need for the tubes, and I don't need F90T17's. I also agree with Medved with regard to the costs.

@ Medved: My intent is to replicate the original electrical characteristics by whatever means are available, since the lamps will be used in original fixtures. I have already gone over this with the engineers.

@Zarlog: I am not having enough lamps reproduced to justify manufacturing fixtures. I would have to have a ten year stock of parts and lamps to justify that. I am primarily interested in producing the tubes for my fixture, and hopefully I can recoup a decent chunk of my investment by offering some of the extra lamps for sale. That's why I'm here.

What I need to find out is how much these are worth to people; so if the three to five circlarc fixture owners here let me know what their needs are and how much they are willing to spend (if anything) I'll be well on my way.
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Re: Reproduction Circlarc Tubes « Reply #7 on: October 04, 2016, 12:32:00 PM » Author: Roi_hartmann
@circlarcguy if you manage to get circlarc lamps manufactured please do post a picture of such lamp here. I myself live in country where circlarc is totally unheard as far as I know so I dont have any need for those. I still think that reproducing old type of lamp that has been out of production for decades I guess is very interesting idea. I hope you manage to get this done.

Just for the curiosity, do they let you brand the lamps in other words can you decide what does it say in the etch of the lamp (if there is one)?
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circlarcguy
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Re: Reproduction Circlarc Tubes « Reply #8 on: October 06, 2016, 07:17:53 AM » Author: circlarcguy
@Roi_hartmann: Well it's not looking good... I haven't heard from one person that would consider buying even one lamp. As far as branding goes, I haven't discussed it with the manufacturer, but I would be surprised if they wouldn't let me brand it. I would just assume leave it blank though.
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Re: Reproduction Circlarc Tubes « Reply #9 on: October 06, 2016, 07:35:20 AM » Author: Lumex120
@Roi_hartmann: Well it's not looking good... I haven't heard from one person that would consider buying even one lamp. As far as branding goes, I haven't discussed it with the manufacturer, but I would be surprised if they wouldn't let me brand it. I would just assume leave it blank though.
I hope you are successful.  Undecided
If you do manage to get a few made, just make them say something like

REPRODUCTION CIRCLARC
18w T8
COMPATIBLE WITH
WESTINGHOUSE CIRCLARC
FIXTURES

just make it small enough to fit on the tube.
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Re: Reproduction Circlarc Tubes « Reply #10 on: October 06, 2016, 10:49:24 AM » Author: DieselNut
That is one of my fixtures. I have two complete ones and one missing the center stud and decorative center cover. I would be interested in some tubes for them and would also love some reproduction T17s, preferably the 100 watt version of the 5 foot mogul bipin tube.
 
There have been talks among members here about possibly reproducing Circlarc tubes, but I don't think anyone has gotten as far as you have. I think there are only maybe 3-5 members here who have Circlarc fixtures (and I'm not one of them), so I wouldn't expect a lot of demand. I can tell you, however, that if I had Circlarc fixtures, I'd much rather use reproduction tubes than original ones, which are extremely scarce.

Also, I'm not sure if you've considered this, but there would probably be more demand for reproduction F90T17 tubes than Circlarc tubes. The prices of F90T17s are becoming astronomical, and if you could get some made for $20-25 per tube or less, I have a feeling you'd have some buyers.
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Re: Reproduction Circlarc Tubes « Reply #11 on: October 06, 2016, 11:38:18 AM » Author: funkybulb
I would be interested in a few as i have a Fixture like dieselnut.  I know Alight have a desklamp and then few others.  Also u could always sell on Ebay.

One other problems is T17 since GE stopped producing tubes.  That. Those with T17 units prolly will end up forcing to toss there fixtures out soon. If they cant
Find tubes for them.  And no one want to pay stilly prices on them.
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Re: Reproduction Circlarc Tubes « Reply #12 on: October 06, 2016, 02:21:31 PM » Author: Ash
Asking again : Could it be possible to make the Circlarc tubes in cheapaer way by cutting and resealing ordinary off the shelf Circlines ?
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Re: Reproduction Circlarc Tubes « Reply #13 on: October 06, 2016, 03:07:39 PM » Author: Lumex120
Asking again : Could it be possible to make the Circlarc tubes in cheapaer way by cutting and resealing ordinary off the shelf Circlines ?
That would probably cost more than actually making new lamps, plus circlarc lamps are a bit larger than the biggest circline lamp.
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Re: Reproduction Circlarc Tubes « Reply #14 on: October 06, 2016, 04:57:57 PM » Author: nicksfans
Circlarc lamps are not larger than the largest (40w) Circline. In fact they're about the size of half of a 32w Circline.
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