Author Topic: 4 months after LED Streetlight retrofit = more failures  (Read 1409 times)
RyanF40T12
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4 months after LED Streetlight retrofit = more failures « on: October 10, 2016, 10:18:00 PM » Author: RyanF40T12
Well since the topic I started back in June was deleted after things got a bit heated in the responses, I figure it best to start a new topic to post what I am now starting to see on the LED Cobra head replacements that were put in by my utility company back in June to replace the 250 & 400 Watt HPS in my community.  With the temps starting to dip down into the high 30s(F) at night, I've noticed about 8-10 out of the 250+ retrofits starting to fail.  2 of them are doing the on/off rapidly thing, and the rest are either going out completely, or are down to 1 out of 3 LED strips on the fixture working.  I suspect the electronic ballasts to be the primary issue.  Just like with fluorescent lighting, these electronic ballasts they are using for these LEDs do not like drastic temperature changes.  

Here is a video of one of the fixtures flashing.  It has 2 LED panel arrays.  This one replaced a 250 Watt HPS.  While I am sure all of you would like to see it replaced back with a HPS fixture, it won't happen, they'll just replace the ballast or pull the head off and slap a new one up there and then hopefully issue a warranty claim with Philips.  I am rather dissapointed in Philips, as they are supposedly one of the best manufacturers of LEDs out there, but perhaps the Philips/Advance ballasts are really sucky.  I don't know.  I don't care really, I happen to like the light output of these LEDs, it gives much better coverage and color vs the HPS.  But whatever.  I suspect once things get even colder we'll see an even higher number of failures.  

Video of the failure
http://vid295.photobucket.com/albums/mm121/JustRyGuy/Mobile%20Uploads/20161010_202538_zpslszwwqmu.mp4


One of the 250 Watt Replacements




The fixture that is bad in the video above is identical to the one in the photo on the top of this page:
http://images.philips.com/is/content/PhilipsConsumer/PDFDownloads/Central%20America/ODLI20150915_001-UPD-es_CE-Road-Focus-L.pdf
« Last Edit: October 10, 2016, 10:21:37 PM by RyanF40T12 » Logged

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dor123
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Re: 4 months after LED Streetlight retrofit = more failures « Reply #1 on: October 10, 2016, 11:00:40 PM » Author: dor123
The flashing appearing in the video, isn't the flashing that I used to see in EOLEDs. I usually see flashing EOLEDs such .
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I hope that LED won't replace all forms of other lighting.

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Re: 4 months after LED Streetlight retrofit = more failures « Reply #2 on: October 11, 2016, 07:55:53 AM » Author: Lumex120
The exact same thing happened to some dayburning cree xsp lights on a 110 F day. they started flickering like this and later went out completely. Later that week the utility replaced them with disgraceful AEL fixtures. I just wish they would have kept the older LED streetlights that weren't glarey, lasted a decent amount of time and had a soft coated merc-like glow instead of the harsh cold effect of the new ones. Plus, those things have survived intense heat before, probably because of the better design where more LEDs are spread over a large surface.
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Re: 4 months after LED Streetlight retrofit = more failures « Reply #3 on: October 11, 2016, 01:34:39 PM » Author: RyanF40T12
Keep in mind that these are not EoL (End of Life)  But rather an electronic component failure, or driver failure.  I had a Sylvania LED Floodlight fail that did the same thing as in Dor's video.  The strobe light effect.  It only had 2-3 months of use on it.  I put it in a flood fixture in the middle of winter.  So far though the other bulb I put in at the same time is still going strong. 
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Re: 4 months after LED Streetlight retrofit = more failures « Reply #4 on: October 11, 2016, 01:45:57 PM » Author: M250R201SA
The town of Carmi, IL experimented with LED fixtures replacing 100 and 250w GE M250R2 cobraheads.  1 year after the replacements, all of them have been replaced back to 250w HPS M250R2s.  I asked a lineman why and he told me that the cost of replacing the failing LEDs was higher than the "savings" one would expect.  These were installed by an electrical contractor and replaced by same, as Ameren does not provide the equipment in Carmi.  I read in the paper that while the mayor was pleased initially, the city board was irked at how unreliable the new LEDs were and would try again in the next few years once the technology has had time to mature.

HPS = 1,  LED = 0
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Re: 4 months after LED Streetlight retrofit = more failures « Reply #5 on: October 11, 2016, 02:11:56 PM » Author: AngryHorse
Make you wonder how they can get it sort of right with SMT houshold lamps, but fail with the same thing on a bigger scale?
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Re: 4 months after LED Streetlight retrofit = more failures « Reply #6 on: October 11, 2016, 11:17:14 PM » Author: M250R201SA
Make you wonder how they can get it sort of right with SMT houshold lamps, but fail with the same thing on a bigger scale?

My best friend's apartment complex has had maintenance replace all of the porch lights with LEDs... over 60% have failed and residents have switched them back over themselves.  9 buildings with 6 apartments each and at least 30 of the apartment tenants have disposed of the LED retrofits on the porch lights and gone with either CFL or Incandescent.  The retrofits were made by Cree.
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Re: 4 months after LED Streetlight retrofit = more failures « Reply #7 on: October 12, 2016, 07:36:13 AM » Author: Lumex120
Make you wonder how they can get it sort of right with SMT houshold lamps, but fail with the same thing on a bigger scale?
LEDs are fine for smaller applications like that. I have quite a few LED bulbs that get tons of use and not a single failure yet. I have seen tons of LED streetlights go dark. It sure is unfortunate that people don't realize that LEDs have their limitations like every other light source.
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Re: 4 months after LED Streetlight retrofit = more failures « Reply #8 on: October 12, 2016, 08:34:56 AM » Author: wattMaster
Our only failure is one that sometimes blinks/flashes. All of the other LED bulbs are working just fine.
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Re: 4 months after LED Streetlight retrofit = more failures « Reply #9 on: October 12, 2016, 08:37:41 PM » Author: M250R201SA
The town I live in absolutely refuses to use LED for street lighting.  If a business wants to use them, so be it, but the mayor here has already told me that he is not going to allow LEDs for streetlights.  Either HPS or PSMH.  Ameren installs only GE HPS luminaires with EYE lamps and DTL photocontrols (that's just the brands they use)
We have:
GE 201SA, M250R2, M400R3, PF400, PF154 currently being installed for new/replacements
EYE Lighting 100w, 250w, 400w HPS lamps
Sylvania METALARC 250w, 400w PSMH lamps
and when available, which isn't very often
Sylvania 175w Mercury... 250w and 400w lamps are
discontinued
DTL DP124-1.5-1704 photocontrols with Brown covers.

Previously, linemen would replace the control during relamp, but in a cost saving measure, if the photocontrol is the model listed above, and works, it is not replaced.
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Re: 4 months after LED Streetlight retrofit = more failures « Reply #10 on: October 12, 2016, 08:45:02 PM » Author: M250R201SA
Also, 99% if the time, Mercury luminaires are not relamped and receive a new GE HPS luminaire.  Even if all the Merc needs is a new lamp, it gets converted anyway, once in a blue moon, if the lineman happens to have some mercury lamps on the truck (not very often), he will then relamp a mercury fixture, but the odds of that happening are about 150:1
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Re: 4 months after LED Streetlight retrofit = more failures « Reply #11 on: October 12, 2016, 09:12:55 PM » Author: Lumex120
The town I live in absolutely refuses to use LED for street lighting.  If a business wants to use them, so be it, but the mayor here has already told me that he is not going to allow LEDs for streetlights.  Either HPS or PSMH.  Ameren installs only GE HPS luminaires with EYE lamps and DTL photocontrols (that's just the brands they use)
We have:
GE 201SA, M250R2, M400R3, PF400, PF154 currently being installed for new/replacements
EYE Lighting 100w, 250w, 400w HPS lamps
Sylvania METALARC 250w, 400w PSMH lamps
and when available, which isn't very often
Sylvania 175w Mercury... 250w and 400w lamps are
discontinued
DTL DP124-1.5-1704 photocontrols with Brown covers.

Previously, linemen would replace the control during relamp, but in a cost saving measure, if the photocontrol is the model listed above, and works, it is not replaced.
Why are they so against it?
Although that is a good thing I guess, they actually do their research instead of believing all the LED marketing BS.
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Re: 4 months after LED Streetlight retrofit = more failures « Reply #12 on: October 12, 2016, 09:26:54 PM » Author: M250R201SA
Because there is nothing wrong with the current technology.  Why replace it?
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Re: 4 months after LED Streetlight retrofit = more failures « Reply #13 on: October 12, 2016, 10:10:50 PM » Author: Lumex120
Because there is nothing wrong with the current technology.  Why replace it?
I wish the same message would get to the utilities here.  Sad
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Re: 4 months after LED Streetlight retrofit = more failures « Reply #14 on: October 13, 2016, 07:18:14 AM » Author: RyanF40T12
The biggest reason is because of politics or the public demands it.  (not the majority, usually the minority) 

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