Author Topic: Do you *really* hate LED's?  (Read 18228 times)
Ash
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Re: Do you *really* hate LED's? « Reply #60 on: September 22, 2017, 12:44:30 PM » Author: Ash
I think the way to pick your battles in this case is, if you choose not to oppose their choice to use LED, then leave it at that. Let them have whatever type of LED they want without you. Dont try to convince them to use one LED over another
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tolivac
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Re: Do you *really* hate LED's? « Reply #61 on: September 23, 2017, 01:08:19 AM » Author: tolivac
How bout letting YOU choose what light source you want?This would be best.Tired of someone else trying to choose lighting equipment for me.Its really about FREEDOM OF CHOICE!!!
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Re: Do you *really* hate LED's? « Reply #62 on: September 23, 2017, 08:02:41 AM » Author: 589
To Ash
Thankfully most people are at least open a little bit to hearing some truth. Obviously delivery is key, which is something that I constantly need to work on, lol.

To tolivac
When the decision is up to me, I do my best to wield that authority responsibly. Sometimes that means installing LED at times, especially when the client desires instant on performance with low power draw and maintenance. That is mostly for interior applications though. At times, I recommend a bulb retrofit to Philips all-start bulbs if possible. They use less power, better lumen maintenance, 90cri, good light in 60 sec., and run on pulse or probe gear. Trade off is they take ~20 minutes to restrike on probe gear. I've had about a dozen or so in service and they have worked really well.
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Ash
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Re: Do you *really* hate LED's? « Reply #63 on: September 23, 2017, 04:06:28 PM » Author: Ash
Sometimes if you intervent into too much things anyone will listen to you less. If you dont think on getting anything this time, maybe save your intervention credit for the next time as well

Fluorescents make great instant on, high performance, high efficiency lighting. If the warm up delay of Fluorescents is too slow then go with T5HO
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tolivac
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Re: Do you *really* hate LED's? « Reply #64 on: September 24, 2017, 01:14:05 AM » Author: tolivac
I have looked into the Philips "All Start" lamps-sounds good-but the price I see on them is expensive.Does Philips still make a retrofit MH lamp for HPS?They used to make an EXCELLENT CMH retrofit-Master Color RetroWhite.Haven't been able to find those anymore-have to use Venture.For your situation-you would have to provide the lighting equipment the client wants.
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RCM442
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Re: Do you *really* hate LED's? « Reply #65 on: September 24, 2017, 08:27:39 PM » Author: RCM442
i really hate leds
Then explain why instead of just saying it.  ::)
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Re: Do you *really* hate LED's? « Reply #66 on: September 24, 2017, 10:01:15 PM » Author: Lodge
This is true for sure. SOX is by far my favorite outdoor lighting. However, nobody else but us cares. The public generalizes LED's as superior in every way, thinks every other type of lighting is archaic and outdated, regardless if it is better. People like to toss around words like "update" and "upgrade" a bunch regarding led. People like new things, they assume it's better because it's new. Many times folks will be either blissfully unaware or just deal with it if the new stuff isn't as good. I just like to think that amber led is a meet-in-the-middle product that combines SOX like qualities that I like with the newness of led.

 ::) And the general public also needs a written warning that the coffee is hot on there cup... There is still some places that like old tried and tested technologies but they are becoming less common all the time, I was doing some work at one place and they have a single SOX light so I tried the upgrade route so I could lay my hands on it and explained how it's hard to get tubes, and the old guy took me in the back room to show me the two boxes of 12 spare lamps for it and said it should last until he dies and a few years after, and it's been up since 1981 and it's not going anywhere, they use it for nighttime lighting in the store.. But your right people generally do like shiny new things...
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takemorepills
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Re: Do you *really* hate LED's? « Reply #67 on: September 25, 2017, 10:06:59 PM » Author: takemorepills
For me, older types of lighting are more of a nostalgia thing. I grew up under incan, MV and LPS street lighting. And the Econolite red/green neon peds would catch my eye also. Fluorescent lighting is big for me also. So, to this day I try and collect those kinds of lighting technologies. HPS was around when I was younger, and is still around now, so I feel no nostalgia for it. And carbon lighting, open air arc lighting and gas lighting were all WAY before my time, so again, no nostalgia for it.

So, I would suppose, if my son were into lighting (he isn't!) he may take a fancy to LED lighting the same way I took a fancy to all of the older stuff. Or, he might find CFL interesting.

I do find it wasteful, or false promise, to go out and replace perfectly good, functioning lighting for the sake of "change". LED lighting is NOT as durable as the peddlers of this tech would have you believe. I work in a lighting-type industry, and the LEDs for signaling seem very good (Dialight) but very high output white LED lighting is hit or miss. Usually non serviceable, a light failure usually requires entire fixture replacement, which can't be good for the environment. LED home lighting is hit or miss also, I predict those LED "filament" bulbs will be very bad offenders in this regard.

Whilst I prefer older lighting as mentioned before, I do appreciate the more creative applications of LED tech. Even though I feel LED filaments are unreliable, it is neat that they attempt to re-create the appearance of older lighting. And I think RGBWW and/or RGBA lighting is fun.

Unfortunately though, consumers like to throw away functioning things for newer, shinier things, and that sucks for the environment. And it makes the (...) Chinese even richer. For all the money we spend on LED lighting, I really wonder if all things considered, early failures of LED and buying new LEDs to replace older ones, if LEDs really even ever save the consumer any money? Especially compared to CFL or fluorescent lighting that may have been trashed for the LEDs.

If it ain't broke don't fix it. Everyone thinks they gotta spend money to save money.
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Re: Do you *really* hate LED's? « Reply #68 on: November 29, 2017, 12:53:11 PM » Author: CEB1993
I have heard that most LED bulbs with the insanely long 20+ year lifespans are actually not designed to last anywhere near that long.  The manufacturer expects the consumer to forget about when the bulb was installed after about 5 years, so when it actually burns out, the lifespan is not called into question.  Have you noticed how no LED bulbs actually have the lifespan printed on them?  The warranties are no where near long enough to replace a prematurely failing bulb in most cases.  It comes down to economics and ensuring that consumers will always have a need to buy a new light bulb as long as they continue to burn out.  Long lasting LED's are bad for profit in that sense.
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Re: Do you *really* hate LED's? « Reply #69 on: November 29, 2017, 02:15:48 PM » Author: DetroitTwoStroke
I like LEDs for certain applications. I hate it when they are misused. I hate the eye-irritating blue that is created by some LEDs. I hate the flicker that is produced by many LED fixtures. I hate seeing LEDs replacing other more efficient technologies.
I have plenty of LED solar powered lights that are awesome. I like some LED flashlights. I like some LED holiday lights. LED indicator lights usually last an incredibly long time. LEDs have uses where they are excellent.

I know a lot of people who still prefer incandescent bulbs over everything else. I don't think we will ever see incandescent lighting go away. I believe there is another breakthrough in incandescent technology that has not happened yet. After all, we are built to see sunlight - the sun is an incandescent source. The only way to replicate it is with an incandescent source.
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CEB1993
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Re: Do you *really* hate LED's? « Reply #70 on: November 29, 2017, 02:50:21 PM » Author: CEB1993
I like LEDs for certain applications. I hate it when they are misused. I hate the eye-irritating blue that is created by some LEDs. I hate the flicker that is produced by many LED fixtures. I hate seeing LEDs replacing other more efficient technologies.
I have plenty of LED solar powered lights that are awesome. I like some LED flashlights. I like some LED holiday lights. LED indicator lights usually last an incredibly long time. LEDs have uses where they are excellent.

I know a lot of people who still prefer incandescent bulbs over everything else. I don't think we will ever see incandescent lighting go away. I believe there is another breakthrough in incandescent technology that has not happened yet. After all, we are built to see sunlight - the sun is an incandescent source. The only way to replicate it is with an incandescent source.

That's exactly how I feel about LED's.  I agree that they are excellent for some applications, but are not the best solution for others where a more efficient light source is possible.  LED's are great for automotive applications, electronics, and decorative purposes due to their long life and energy efficiency.  The latest LED's, such as Philips Classic Glass LED bulbs do not have the harsh blue light of some of the earlier and less refined products.  With their incandescent design and traditional soft white coating, I will say they are the best LED's I've used to date.  They don't have any noticeable flicker, either. Philips is on point with their latest LED products and I'm thrilled that they look almost exactly like classic incandescents now  ;D


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Re: Do you *really* hate LED's? « Reply #71 on: December 15, 2017, 03:23:30 PM » Author: Rommie
I have heard that most LED bulbs with the insanely long 20+ year lifespans are actually not designed to last anywhere near that long. 

--
We have some LED street lighting fittings near us that have been there probably somewhere in the region of 3 months (don't recall exactly, but certainly no longer than that) which replaced perfectly serviceable HPS lamps. At least three of them have failed already.

Meanwhile, the local authority presses on regardless, replacing perfectly good HPS and MH with these abominations, which have nowhere near the light quality and distribution patterns of the fittings they replace. There are loads of black spots on the road with pools of white light under the lamp posts and not a lot of light elsewhere. Except in the eyes of drivers, that is.

LED's are fine for domestic use, but for street lights.. No way.
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Ria (aka Rommie) in Aberdeen
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Re: Do you *really* hate LED's? « Reply #72 on: December 15, 2017, 03:38:04 PM » Author: Rommie
How bout letting YOU choose what light source you want?This would be best.Tired of someone else trying to choose lighting equipment for me.Its really about FREEDOM OF CHOICE!!!

The problem is, we can choose what we want in our homes, but not in our streets or offices (unless we are the ones responsible for those, and even then we probably have to defer to the bean-counters).

I have no problem with LED's for domestic lighting, most of the lamps in our flat are LED (although admittedly mainly because we got them from a friend who ran a shop, at a 20% discount..!) plus they consume a lot less electricity, and when I'm paying the bill, that's important.

There are domestic fittings I don't like, though. We have a floor lamp which we got from our friend, it works well, but the LED in it is not replaceable. When it dies, the whole fitting is scrap. That to me is waste, and I hate waste.

For street lighting, I think there is a LONG way still to go before LED's will ever come close to replacing discharge lighting for me, and at my age I doubt I'll see that. So far, I have not seen an LED street lamp I didn't hate.

Sorry, but that's how it is. You asked  ;D
« Last Edit: December 15, 2017, 03:49:30 PM by MissRiaElaine » Logged

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Re: Do you *really* hate LED's? « Reply #73 on: December 15, 2017, 03:49:29 PM » Author: Mandolin Girl
I much prefer the softer glow of SOX/HPS lighting, as it is soothing on the eye at night time, a human's night vision is monochromatic, so having a full spectrum glare bomb is pointless. Seeing a car coming towards you is much better than knowing that the car you just hit because of the glare was red.

When it comes to replacing EoL fittings LED at its worst means replacing the whole fixture and at its best you would have to isolate the supply,  go up in a cherry picker, unscrew at least 4 screws, then you can put a new LED element in and replace the screws.

Compare that to SOX/HPS, with them when it gets to EoL all you need to do is isolate the supply, go up in the cherry picker unclip the bowl, replace the lamp and clip the bowl back in place. All done in a fraction of the time.
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Re: Do you *really* hate LED's? « Reply #74 on: December 15, 2017, 04:53:36 PM » Author: Beta 5
I much prefer the softer glow of SOX/HPS lighting, as it is soothing on the eye at night time, a human's night vision is monochromatic, so having a full spectrum glare bomb is pointless. Seeing a car coming towards you is much better than knowing that the car you just hit because of the glare was red.

When it comes to replacing EoL fittings LED at its worst means replacing the whole fixture and at its best you would have to isolate the supply,  go up in a cherry picker, unscrew at least 4 screws, then you can put a new LED element in and replace the screws.

Compare that to SOX/HPS, with them when it gets to EoL all you need to do is isolate the supply, go up in the cherry picker unclip the bowl, replace the lamp and clip the bowl back in place. All done in a fraction of the time.

That's if the LED's fixture aren't totally sealed in so you have to chuck out the entire fixture.
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