Author Topic: The true danger of halogen lamps/lighting  (Read 5289 times)
Flurofan96
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The true danger of halogen lamps/lighting « on: March 07, 2017, 04:57:50 PM » Author: Flurofan96
http://metro.co.uk/2017/03/07/girl-6-became-cocooned-in-melting-blanket-after-lamp-fell-on-her-bed-6494515/
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Keiron
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Re: The true danger of halogen lamps/lighting « Reply #1 on: March 07, 2017, 05:38:50 PM » Author: Keiron
T.B.F this could happen with an incandescent lamp or any lamp that produces heat, it's because it fell onto the bed that the accident happened.
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Re: The true danger of halogen lamps/lighting « Reply #2 on: March 07, 2017, 06:12:33 PM » Author: Ash
Would this for example be a CFL or a Filament LED lamp, it could still fall on the bed, smash, and touch the blanket with a current conducting part (which, for European lamps have a 1/2 chance of being live even when the switch is off). If the kid somehow makes contact with Earth :

Kid is startled and puts a foot on the floor while getting out of bed

Kid fell asleep with an iPhone in hand, while the iPhone is plugged into a desktop PC for charging



The only thing to blame here is why the lamp fell in the 1st place : maybe how it was used (placed on unstable surface, pulled by the cable) or how it was made (cheap Plastic breaks under mechanical load)
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Re: The true danger of halogen lamps/lighting « Reply #3 on: March 07, 2017, 06:59:34 PM » Author: Lodge
I don't think it's the halogen technology that's the main issue, but more so the poor placement of the lamp, choice of bedding materials used, and the absence of a smoke detector in a bed room, you combine those issues and your just asking for problems, like really they woke up because of the smell, a simple $10 ionization or better a dual ionization / optical smoke detector would of alerted them long before they smelled it.. (If you don't have a smoke detector in every bed room think about installing them, they are cheap, take all of 1 minute to install and can save your life or that of a loved one) 
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Re: The true danger of halogen lamps/lighting « Reply #4 on: March 08, 2017, 12:13:04 AM » Author: dor123
Not every house have smoke detectors. Here in Israel, this is a common solution to public spaces, hotels and protected housing (Such as my hostel), rather than private homes and houses, because of the cost of a fire alarm system (Both buying, installing and maintenance).
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Re: The true danger of halogen lamps/lighting « Reply #5 on: March 08, 2017, 12:40:35 AM » Author: Lodge
I was thinking more like a 9 volt battery operated ionization type detectors which in quantity can be got for under $5 usd a unit and just under $10 retail in a single packs, so they are not that expensive, especially when you look at the fact they last ten year. You only require two screws to install, and the only maintenance they need is to be cleaned when changing the battery, which should be done twice a year, normally I do it with a vacuum cleaner and a damp cloth but they will run a year if you use a good quality battery (And if you go a year, they all have a low battery chirp which will annoy you at 2 AM while your asleep promoting you to change it every six months to avoid this) I'm not talking about installing a fully monitored commercial systems, which I know are very expensive...
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Re: The true danger of halogen lamps/lighting « Reply #6 on: March 08, 2017, 01:48:49 AM » Author: Ash
Choice of bedding materials used

In this case yes (the bedding melted i.e. was made of Plastic)

In the general case bedding is made of Cotton, and i have a different view in that case :

Safety standards require it to be fire retardant to a degree, to make it safer against fire accidents. For this, the Cotton is treated with fire retardants (that stay embedded in it)

Accidents are by definition something which is unlikely to happen. Specifically for an accident of bed on fire, the cause of the accident is never the bed itself anyway. It can be the user (smoking in bed, unsafe placement of space heater, ...) or a nearby electrical appliance (Plastic part of a clip lamp used as nightlight snapped because of poor quality, lit lamp fell into bed) thats at fault. Beds dont spontaneously combust....

Fire retardant is there all the time, and it can be harmful to health

With the growing paranoia for safety, peeps look a lot into safety from the perspective of accidents. Accidents are scary, but 1. The chances of them happening are slim by definition, 2. They can be prevented at an earlier stage, in this case by elimination or better control of the possible ignition source. Peeps completely overlook safety from the perspective of latent certain harm which they bring upon themselfes (or their kids, or employees, ...) by choice when trying to eliminate the accidents (or in other cases, when trying to achieve something non safety related, such as saving money on something)
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Re: The true danger of halogen lamps/lighting « Reply #7 on: March 08, 2017, 03:06:12 AM » Author: Lodge
Ash I'm old school and live in Canada it's -20C outside right now, I like wool it's warm, and the top blanket is older then me, and about the  fire retardant if it ever contained it, it's long gone by now.. Wool doesn't melt and you actually have to get it pretty hot to burn, but yes cotton can contain fire retardant  on/in it, but it still doesn't negate the need to install a smoke alarm, money saving or not if they can  afford to buy a single coffee from Mcdonalds in a year they can afford a smoke detector every ten years it's really that simple, and honestly if someone can't afford one all they have to do in my city is stop by a fire hall and they will be given them with a battery for free, yes they have paper work for you to fill out, and yes they normally have small stuffed toys to give to the kids and they will show them the fire trucks, and the kids will have fun, while they might not do this every where, if some can't afford one they should consider asking, so there is not a whole lot of excuses, and an ionization smoke detector would of picked this fire off long before it got that bad, and they are lucky it could of been worse..

I also have kids and I know not to give them things like halogen lamps with in reach of there bed, it promotes them to stay up later and annoy me so, so all my kids got was a ceiling light, with a neon illuminated switch and a Electroluminescent night light and they didn't have any issues like this, my general rule was if it gets hot it doesn't belong in a small kids room, and as they got older, if she was hot she doesn't belong in there room, they can have hot things where they are supervised, and don't think I was mean they were using power tools, soldering irons and a propane torches all before they where ten but they had an adult watching them so they where safe, kids bedrooms are for sleeping not working, teach them this while they are young...    

But more back on topic,this is not a halogen bulb design flaw, it's operator error the bulb was operating as intended so with correct placement by a competent adult this normally would never happen and following basic safety concepts the damage caused would of been significantly less...   
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Re: The true danger of halogen lamps/lighting « Reply #8 on: March 08, 2017, 04:08:55 PM » Author: Ash
I have not said anything about smoke alarm.. It really is the situation here that most houses dont have any smoke alarms. However, the battery ones are available and dont cost too much. Its a thing of awareness

Also, houses here are built of Concrete, so fires dont spread as easily as in wood frame houses



Kids of few years age and up are very competent, and definitely competent enough for something as simple as a desk lamp without supervision. With power tools it varies per tool. I would not worry about a standard battery drill either

The problem i mean is something different :

Think there is a kid bed. Above it there is some sort of clip lamp attached to a shelf. With 5W Incandescent lamp. Fair enough as a "bigger" nightlight, e.g. for a kid who is afraid of the darkness etc. When the parent put the clip lamp there, he checked how it feels and it felt sturdy and reliable, like there is no way it will fall down

Due to the lamp manufacturer cost cutting, the Plastic in the clip was inadequate. All this time the lamp is in the same spot untouched, it became part of the landscape, nobody even looks at it anymore - only switches it on/off using a switch on the power cable. There is a crack slowly expanding in the clip (without visible signs unless you take the lamp and look)

Then one night the clip snaps in two and the lamp falls into the bed
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Re: The true danger of halogen lamps/lighting « Reply #9 on: March 08, 2017, 07:25:28 PM » Author: Lodge
Fair enough concrete doesn't burn well but a smoke alarm is still a good idea because everything else between the walls will burn and about the clip light,kids don't need a light to sleep, in fact it will cause them not to sleep and annoy there parents all night long, so why risk peace and quite all night long so the parents can be parents, simply give them no other lights well other then the one affixed to the ceiling which is safe (I installed mine so I know they are way above the minimum code requirements, complete with 12/3 copper wire a AFCI /GFCI breaker and a safety retaining wire in a stud that will support 200 lbs so they are not coming down without tools) 

Power tools, sure drills are fairly safe,but mine were running my tools so that might be a stick welder, routers, circular saws, pneumatic nail guns, so you really need to keep a pretty close eye on them, and they know the rules and what happens if they don't follow them, but they made some really interesting things...     
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Re: The true danger of halogen lamps/lighting « Reply #10 on: March 09, 2017, 01:26:22 AM » Author: Ash
Everyone's situation is different, so there may well be a case where a light is left on all night for some reason. It still does not mean that there is no problem with quality of some products which are considered "consumer grade" and not "safety critical", but in the wrong case it can very well become a safety problem

With high power drill there is one potential problem : When you release the trigger the drill still spins for a short while from inertia. For kid with long hair, when it is caught in a battery drill and he releases the switch it stops immediately. With high power drill it can keep rolling the hair in right up to the head. So if they might forget the safety precautions before using the drill you gotta be there to educate them and supervise in the beginning

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Re: The true danger of halogen lamps/lighting « Reply #11 on: March 09, 2017, 03:14:35 AM » Author: Lodge
True, cheap products fail and most items should be used with due caution, and my drills are high power they also all have electronic braking so they pretty much come to a dead stop when you release the trigger, and the saws stop instantly if your fingers get to close to the blade, I've seem a guy cut his thumb off in person and still remember the ringing sound of the blade so I figured that blade stopping option was worth the extra few dollars it cost,I like my fingers and thumbs...   
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Re: The true danger of halogen lamps/lighting « Reply #12 on: March 09, 2017, 03:43:37 AM » Author: funkybulb
With me I am very oposite. I cant. Sleep in darkness
Ive been this way since even since my parrent knows
Me. My  Step dad have a problem with this
He go why are u sleeping with a. light on
He turns it off in middle of night,  i wind
Up  waking up very late for school  or work.
He goes how in heck u sleep wiith a light
On, he gows your running up the electric
Bill.  I go what 5 buck a month of electric
Use ?  My monthly electricity use
Much lower than rest of household
I use about 30 buck of electricity  per
Month including air conditioner running.
Spring and fall my electric bill drop
Even lower.  300 KWH min.
This why i am so sick of lighting bans

 


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Re: The true danger of halogen lamps/lighting « Reply #13 on: March 09, 2017, 09:28:12 AM » Author: Flurofan96
Some cheap things are best avoided as they can breach safety standards or just pose hazard in the wrong hands/situation.

Keiron was experiencing violent EOL incandescent lamps made by Status and it was the golf ball and candle ones usually doing that sort of action but he told me that the GLS ones from Status just simply trip the breaker and nothing more. Now imagine the Status 40w Candle lamps exploding (not all at once) without any enclosing to capture the shards on my chandalier and imagine the myriad of hazards occurring due to that! I was like "geez why are shops selling such cheap junk that could be dangerous" The only worst case scenario I had with cheap incandescent was an EOL Polaroid candle lamp taking out our dimmer switch
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Re: The true danger of halogen lamps/lighting « Reply #14 on: March 10, 2017, 01:55:58 AM » Author: Ash
I dont think exploding Incandescent lamp can set fire to anything (not extremely flammable) more than a ft or two away. If the filament is thrown tn some direction it will cool down very fast as it flies through air

Back in the 90s/early 00s when out home was mostly Incandescent (except 2 Halogens and 3 Switchstart Fluorescents), tripping breakers all the way up to L32 was very common with lamp EOLs. None of them ever exploded. I recall the Incandescents being various Europe made ones that were good quality

With present day cheap lamps i can see that happening
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