Author Topic: The true danger of halogen lamps/lighting  (Read 5671 times)
dor123
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Re: The true danger of halogen lamps/lighting « Reply #15 on: March 10, 2017, 03:23:17 AM » Author: dor123
In my mother home, during my childhood, we never encountered exploding incandescent lamps or tripping breaker at lamp EOL. Most of the incandescent lamps that my mother brought, was of the local manufacturer DJG, before moving to krypton mushroom lamps of Osram, Philips and GE, which my mother loved their mushroom shape. With the GE lamps, there was some cases that the lamp came out of the base at EOL, but without force and without any explosion, arcing or tripping breaker.
We had only few lamp explosions with 150W incandescent lamps, in my mother home, but without tripping the breaker.
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Re: The true danger of halogen lamps/lighting « Reply #16 on: March 10, 2017, 06:59:11 PM » Author: xmaslightguy
Quote from: funkybulb
With me I am very oposite. I cant. Sleep in darkness
Same here.
But my "nightlight" of choice is a string of LED xmas lights, so it costs basically nothing to run.

(I went with green because its my favorite LED color (I had though about adding a Blue string too...but even before I heard anything about 'blue light hazard' with LEDs, there was something I just didn't trust about that intense blue on all the time (also figured it might be bas for the houseplants too)))
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Re: The true danger of halogen lamps/lighting « Reply #17 on: March 10, 2017, 08:43:04 PM » Author: Lodge
Same here.
But my "nightlight" of choice is a string of LED Christmas lights, so it costs basically nothing to run.

(I went with green because its my favorite LED color (I had though about adding a Blue string too...but even before I heard anything about 'blue light hazard' with LEDs, there was something I just didn't trust about that intense blue on all the time (also figured it might be bas for the houseplants too)))

I actually use a 16 watt blue LED Par38 light to grow lemons under, along with a 6 watt red PAR38 Led, the plants seem to enjoy the lights as it grows little lemons year round, while it's a cool -20 outside, the only thing is the plant looks sick under the monochromatic light but when you turn on a white light and it looks normal, I guess if you make the leaves look black they are absorbing more of the light and so long as I have fresh lemons year round I'm happy..

But I to like those emerald green leds, but not the older sick green leds...
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Re: The true danger of halogen lamps/lighting « Reply #18 on: March 10, 2017, 10:43:42 PM » Author: xmaslightguy
Quote from: Lodge
I actually use a 16 watt blue LED Par38 light to grow lemons under, along with a 6 watt red PAR38 Led, the plants seem to enjoy the lights as it grows little lemons year round, while it's a cool -20 outside, the only thing is the plant looks sick under the monochromatic light but when you turn on a white light and it looks normal, I guess if you make the leaves look black they are absorbing more of the light and so long as I have fresh lemons year round I'm happy..

But I to like those emerald green leds, but not the older sick green leds...
I'm using fluorescent(a mix of different types) as the main lights for my houseplants

I actually planted a Lemon seed & tried growing a plant (mainly for fun I guess, and to see what it looked like)
Its a pretty pathetic looking little thing now :lol:
Sounds like yours is doing good, must like the setup you have!

The True-Green LEDs do work good for night lighting since plants can't see/use green (though I don't know if even white would be bright enough to affect the day/night cycle anyway)
---

I have some xmas-lights of the old lime-green LED (something I made - because they'd be unique, nobody else would have such) but they're only used during the holiday season.
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Re: The true danger of halogen lamps/lighting « Reply #19 on: March 10, 2017, 11:17:25 PM » Author: Lodge
I cheated,the lemon tree was two foot tall when I got it from a greenhouse and its a meyer lemon they produce all year round and it doesn't grow enough lemons to make more then one glass of lemonade a year but they do look pretty.. A small amount of light during the plants dark cycle normally won't affect it much unless your growing picky plants like a Mimosa pudica ( sensitivity plant or touch me not) which don't like 24/7 lighting..

Those "true" green leds do last forever and every set of emerald green leds I have seem to go like two or three seasons tops, I guess if I cut them up and modified them to use a nice DC supply it might help but I don't have the patients right now, I did a red and blue set many years ago that was 30 feet long, I even braided it back together and it took a few hours every night for a week to get it to look factory new, only to have the led legs rust away to nothing five years latter, why they can't make truly waterproof outdoor x-mas light is frustrating..
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Re: The true danger of halogen lamps/lighting « Reply #20 on: March 11, 2017, 09:39:46 PM » Author: xmaslightguy
@Lodge:
Nothing wrong with buying a plant that's already been grown up to size :)
No idea what type of lemon mine is, seed just came from one like you'd buy at a grocery store.

I had a couple of those Mimosa sensitive plant a few years back (but they ended up dieing...can't remember if they were some of the plants I've cooked in summer or if it was bugs)

--
Those 'true green' (which you could also call 'emerald green' :) ) sets I have in the bedroom have been running for the most part 24/7 since I made them back in 2007 (you couldn't buy all-green sets at that time here, so had to do my own). I do go through & replace any dead's every now & then.

On the current generation of LED sets they have supposedly taken care of the rust issue (from what I've heard used to be made with steel, but now aluminum)
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Re: The true danger of halogen lamps/lighting « Reply #21 on: March 12, 2017, 01:29:34 AM » Author: Ash
Which does not make a lot of difference anyway..

The voltage across the LED is DC (whether pulsed or not) - If the 2 leads are in contact with the same volume of water (what got under the heat shrink) then it is going to corrode. There are also at least 3 dissimilar metals in there : The LED lead bulk metal (Aluminum instead of Steel ?), metal it is plated with (Copper ?), the metal it is tinned with (Tin ?), wire connected to it (Copper, or maybe Aluminum or even some alloy containing Steel), and the solder (Tin + trace amounts of other stuff)

The LED string is usually all LEDs in series to a ballast (resistor or capacitor) + maybe some flashing control. It is not isolated. If there is a problem of water getting to the LED connections and this was solved by changing the metals instead of by better waterproofing, this means that water is still getting there. So if the string touches some Metal object and it is wet, this object may be under voltage provided from the leakage in the string
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Re: The true danger of halogen lamps/lighting « Reply #22 on: March 13, 2017, 10:58:41 PM » Author: xmaslightguy
@Ash:
The general 'cheap' LED (and incandescent) strings you buy here have basically no waterproofing, if you were to look at the bottom of the socket where the wires go, its simply open.... You would certainly would not want to grab hold of the string if it was wet, because you will get shocked (that I do know for a fact :lol: )

The LEDs wires are now aluminum(this info coming from a Christmas-light forum for people into lights/decorating).
The contacts in the sockets are brass, and the wire copper ofcourse
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Re: The true danger of halogen lamps/lighting « Reply #23 on: March 13, 2017, 11:14:06 PM » Author: Lodge
Xmaslightguy, and if your like most people and have a GFCI protected outside plug they are a nightmare constantly tripping the plug any time there is any snow or rain, I don't know why they couldn't just fill them with silicone or better just melt the ends closed I've started using the 24 VDC strings to help with this issue and if it's wet out 24 VDC is safer then 120 or 240 VAC, and that gives me an idea I guess I could just swap the white leds for a green ones, they should be the same voltage if memory serves me correctly, time to go and unplug a few strings of lights when it's not -15 outside...   
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Re: The true danger of halogen lamps/lighting « Reply #24 on: March 14, 2017, 12:07:47 AM » Author: xmaslightguy
@Lodge:
Luckily rain here is fairly uncommon(uncommon but it seems to happen occasionally now) in December, but yep even with snow I did have some issues with the GFCIs

These days since I have to split stuff up between multiple breakers, I make a point to put certain things on the non-GFCI outlets if I know they're likely to cause an issue (and keep the GFCIs for things that are less likely to cause problems, but also works out that they are what I'd want the extra protection on anyway)

They do sell commercial-grade 120v LED strings where everything is sealed up, but the bulbs are also non-replaceable (sopposedly to get a good seal they have to be)

Oh and yeah you should be able to swap white for green voltage-wize, but if you're buying green LEDs off eBay or whatever, they will likely be the standard type (ie: not the aluminum) so they may rust.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2017, 12:14:17 AM by xmaslightguy » Logged

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Re: The true danger of halogen lamps/lighting « Reply #25 on: March 14, 2017, 12:46:57 AM » Author: Ash
I'd not be sure that the wires are Copper. Its common to find Aluminum or CCA in stuff nowadays, and sometimes even Steel and CCS (Copper-y looking wire, but the way the strands flex really dont feel like Copper at all)

24VDC is safe electrically (unless your isolated power supply is not really isolated), but what will happen if a short circuit happens somewhere down the string ? Is it guaranteed that it will pull enough current to take down the supply into restart pulse mode, or that it will safely handle the supplied current without catching fire ? With 120V and no GFCI it too can be dangerous in case of fault (short circuit to Metal objects like gutters, from a mid point in the string so not too excessive current, and it won't trip a breaker)

If you want custom then make your own string of LEDs, pot them with Silicone into pieces of clear Plastic tube or some other objects - Christmas tree decorations, pieces of pens, ... Then it is properly sealed and you dont have to care about the LED leads material

Green varies. the new Green is similar to Blue/White, the old Green is lower V. Its not only the voltage that matters - there is a ballasting element in the controller or somewhere in the string
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Re: The true danger of halogen lamps/lighting « Reply #26 on: March 14, 2017, 01:29:02 AM » Author: Lodge
Ash, it's a switched mode 24VDC 1 amp supply so it's isolated from the input and it has fault detection so if you short it out, it will shut down and you then have to power it down and restart it to get the power flowing again so it's safe and protected by a GFCI, even my outdoor 30 amp 120/240 plug is GFCI, and no I don't use it for the x-mas lighting, and while potting them is an option I have like 700 feet of them with a light every 4 inches, that's a ton of potting compound and time, it's actually cheaper for me to by a new set every couple of years then it is to buy potting compound, I get them after x-mas like in February, when they are like a $1 a string because the store just wants them gone, and I'll still ask for a deal, I've found most managers will give you upto an additional 50% if you offer to take them all so 50 cents for 70 to 150 lights a set is worth it just for the copper wire.. I actually think if I'm going to build a set now,  I would do it from scratch and use a WS2812 LED so I can control each light digitally, and pot everything so they are just a solid blocks by pouring epoxy in a silicone ice cube tray with a light and wires in it, I just need my kid to program it to work, I suck at software...   
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Re: The true danger of halogen lamps/lighting « Reply #27 on: March 14, 2017, 11:56:25 AM » Author: xmaslightguy
Quote from: Ash
I'd not be sure that the wires are Copper.
Its copper (or something that looks/feels/etc the same) I've modified and/or fixed plenty of sets...


Quote from: Ash
With 120V and no GFCI it too can be dangerous in case of fault (short circuit to Metal objects like gutters, from a mid point in the string so not too excessive current, and it won't trip a breaker)
All normal mini incandescent & LED strings have a pair of 3a fuses in the plug, When connecting sets together I've found you have to keep it below 2a or you'll pop the fuse.


Quote from: Lodge
I actually think if I'm going to build a set now,  I would do it from scratch and use a WS2812 LED so I can control each light digitally, and pot everything so they are just a solid blocks by pouring epoxy in a silicone ice cube tray with a light and wires in it, I just need my kid to program it to work, I suck at software...   
No need to go to all that trouble, its all been done already (but I believe its a 5050 RGB LED instead). And they have a few different options on the bulb spacing of the strings. (the sets are fully sealed, so no replacing dead 'bulbs', but also takes care of any rust/corrosion issues. Oh and they operate on 12v DC)
The software is there too - something called FPP (Falcon Pi Player) that runs on a Raspberry Pi... and its free! ( more info... fpp itself... )
For actually telling it how to control the lights you'd need Xlights/Nutcracker - which is also free more info.. )
I've tried out FPP myself but haven't yet done Xlights/Nutcracker
But I have seen both in action with the RGB lights, up close/behind the scenes/etc :) and I've met the original creator of Nutcracker as well as the original creator & some of the others who've done work on FPP.
Truly awesome awesome stuff! (but the lights & controllers are expensive - way out of my budget :lol: so I'll be just using my normal lights)

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Re: The true danger of halogen lamps/lighting « Reply #28 on: March 14, 2017, 06:44:57 PM » Author: Lodge
Xmaslight guy The cost for some sets I've seen are high I figured you can get the WS2812 and now they have the RGB and White on a small PCB / heatsink with the filter capacitors mounted, and all you have to do is solder the wires on them and sink them in epoxy all for about 20 cents a bulb  then place a small waterproof plug in connector like every five lights so I can repair a section if needed with ease and for a controller I figured a raspberry Pi would work so the only thing I would need is a small power supply like a 12 volt 100 watt box,

Do you need something between the 5050 lights and the Pi ( it's Pi day today )

And thanks for the links I'll have to check them out, I've seen them in action and those leds are nice and give you such a variety in colors I think they are the way to go moving forward for low power decorative outdoor lighting for X-mas / halloween and if I build them I know they will not just be water proof but they will stand up to the pressure washer with a 0 Deg jet... 

Ash all the ones I've gone through are copper, all be it very small gauge like 20 AWG or 22 AWG they are copper, They all get stripped wrapped and recycled and the scrapper hasn't said anything about them other then it's #2 copper and he heated them with a MAPP touch to see if they melt so it's not aluminium they just went bright red..     
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Re: The true danger of halogen lamps/lighting « Reply #29 on: March 14, 2017, 10:21:40 PM » Author: xmaslightguy
@Lodge:
The cost is the reason I don't own any :lol:

People do use the WS2812 commonly too (and some the WS2811), they can be gotten in pre-made sets, but I don't know how cost compares to making your own.
With any of them you need the Pi, and a control-board before the lights.
Too bad you don't live in CO or I'd say come to one of the xmas light meetups the guys here have.


LOL that just by chance its Pi day when I mentioned this!
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