Author Topic: electronic vs magnetic  (Read 197 times)
RyanKorponay12
Newbie
*
Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 35
View Gallery


Ryan Korponay The Ballaster
electronic vs magnetic « on: April 20, 2017, 08:52:10 PM » Author: RyanKorponay12
so out of curiosity, here is the scenario you have a auto shop with 4X F96T12 fixtures and you want to save power but you dont want to remove your awesome 4X F96T12 fixture
so you replace the magnetic ballasts for electronic ballasts would that save any power what so ever? and/or you change out your 75 watt bulbs for 60 watt bulbs would that make a big difference in power draw?
or would the ballast still run them at 75 watts ?

im just curios
Logged

The Ballaster!!! *Poof*...

Ash
Hero Member
*****
Offline

Posts: 2870
View Gallery


Re: electronic vs magnetic « Reply #1 on: April 21, 2017, 12:12:09 AM » Author: Ash
Why so low power lamps in F96T12 ? Isnt there anything brighter you could put in along with ballast change ? (Are they single pin or HO ?)



With virtually all Magnetic ballasts, the change from Magnetic to Electronic alone saves a few Watts per lamp. An interesting part is, that not all the savings come from the ballast - The lamp itself gets higher Lm/W on high frequency supply, which means that Electronic ballasts actually put less power into it to ge the same light output as Magnetic

Here is some fairly precise data about European 36W 4ft T8, which have the same 3350Lm output on different types of gear. The magnetic ballast is a choke as used on 230V (so a suitable choke could be used in the US on 240V and 277V). Rapid Start and all other autotransformer magnetic ballasts are a bit less efficient, but while i know the figures for 36W T8 off memory, i dont know as much about Rapid Start and others

Standard magnetic

Power to luminaire 43W
Power to lamp 36W
Ballast losses 43 - 36 = 7W
Lamp efficacy 3350 / 36 = 93.1 Lm/W
Ballast efficiency 36 / 43 = 0.84
System efficacy 3350 / 43 = 77.9 Lm/W

Standard electronic

Power to ballast 38W
Power to lamp : 32W
Ballast losses : 38 - 32 = 6W
Lamp efficacy : 3350 / 32 = 104.7 Lm/W
Ballast efficiency 32 / 38 = 0.84
System efficacy 3350 / 38 = 88.2 Lm/W



It is technically possible to make chokes with high efficiency (size and cost are the limits), bringing overall efficiency to the same level as electronic. Here is what one of them might work like

Power to ballast 38W
Power to lamp : 36W
Ballast losses : 38 - 36 = 2W
Lamp efficacy : 3350Lm / 36W = 93.1 Lm/W
Ballast efficiency 36 / 38 = 0.95
System efficacy 3350 / 38 = 88.2 Lm/W

And it is possible to make better electronic ballasts too

Power to ballast 36W
Power to lamp : 32W
Ballast losses : 36 - 32 = 4W
Lamp efficacy : 3350 / 32 = 104.7 Lm/W
Ballast efficiency 32 / 36 = 0.89
System efficacy 3350 / 36 = 93.1 Lm/W
Logged
xmaslightguy
Sr. Member
****
Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 349
View Gallery

^homebuilt fixture


GoL ATL
WWW
Re: electronic vs magnetic « Reply #2 on: April 21, 2017, 07:49:44 PM » Author: xmaslightguy
Quote from: RyanKorponay12
so out of curiosity, here is the scenario you have a auto shop with 4X F96T12 fixtures and you want to save power but you dont want to remove your awesome 4X F96T12 fixture
so you replace the magnetic ballasts for electronic ballasts would that save any power what so ever? and/or you change out your 75 watt bulbs for 60 watt bulbs would that make a big difference in power draw?
or would the ballast still run them at 75 watts ?

Electronic ballast would most likely run them at something less than 75w (other than the ballast-loss savings, that's the typical way they "save" energy with ballasts)
Don't bother with 60w lamps, they still suck in cold (or even cool) weather. No flickering on electronic, but they will be dim.

You could upgrade to F96T8 as well.

-----------
Quote from: Ash
Why so low power lamps in F96T12 ? Isnt there anything brighter you could put in along with ballast change ? (Are they single pin or HO ?)

F96T12 75w would always be single pin.
Logged

Colored Fluorescent's such as F40T12 Red or  Green or Blue are awesome...

Lodge
Full Member
***
Offline

Posts: 132
View Gallery

18W Goldeye / 52W R&C LED front door lighting


Re: electronic vs magnetic « Reply #3 on: April 22, 2017, 01:15:34 AM » Author: Lodge
If the 60 watt tubes dim when cool / cold you can get glass tube guards to reduce this from happening, and normally I would suggest plastic tube guards but in a paint shop, you'll never get the paint off them and will need to replace them all the time but a glass guard you can wipe down with paint stripper and reuse them..
Logged
Lodge
Full Member
***
Offline

Posts: 132
View Gallery

18W Goldeye / 52W R&C LED front door lighting


Re: electronic vs magnetic « Reply #4 on: April 22, 2017, 01:32:44 AM » Author: Lodge
Also on a side note, will the ballast change alter the fixtures class and division ratings, or totally invalidate them ? most of the paint shops I've been in use Explosion proof fixtures, most paints are highly explosive when you spray them, so you have to change the ballast and lamps as specified by the manufacturer, simply putting in lower wattage parts may not be allowed by code (your insurance company will have a issue with this, and if there is a fire / explosion they will find out what caused it) you might really be looking at power savings vs the potential for a fire/explosion and no insurance coverage, so it might be cheaper in the long run to go with a whole new fixture that has the proper rating and lower wattage your looking for, or pay a little bit more for power...
Logged
Ash
Hero Member
*****
Offline

Posts: 2870
View Gallery


Re: electronic vs magnetic « Reply #5 on: April 22, 2017, 02:34:03 AM » Author: Ash
How large is the painting area (specifically the explosion risk area) ? And how often the light there is in use ? (can it be wired to a separate switch when not in use ?) For a small workshop it may be using too little energy to bother in the first place
Logged
nicksfans
Hero Member
*****
Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 729
View Gallery

Down with lamp bans!


the.baus.of.all.bauses UCDl2EWWZc9h1IZXcfGU9OZA nicksfans
Re: electronic vs magnetic « Reply #6 on: April 23, 2017, 08:17:43 PM » Author: nicksfans
I have experience installing F40T12 electronic ballasts alongside F40T12 magnetic RS ballasts in the same fixtures. Both ran the lamps equally bright, and the electronic ballasts were rated 0.63 A with 40w lamps compared to 0.73 A for the magnetic ballasts. So the efficacy is indeed higher with electronic ballasts (which is the point).
Logged

I like my lamps thick, my ballasts heavy, and my fixtures tough.

My Gallery
Instagram
YouTube

Ash
Hero Member
*****
Offline

Posts: 2870
View Gallery


Re: electronic vs magnetic « Reply #7 on: April 24, 2017, 10:28:32 AM » Author: Ash
Magnetic normally have power factor around 0.9 (for HPF ones), good electronic often higher
Logged
Medved
Hero Member
*****
Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 3559
View Gallery

Re: electronic vs magnetic « Reply #8 on: April 25, 2017, 01:06:24 AM » Author: Medved
Magnetic normally have power factor around 0.9 (for HPF ones), good electronic often higher
But the NPF magnetic use to be around 0.6, the electronic with very simple power factor correction (just a series inductor with the input,...) use to be around 0.7 or so.
But indeed, there is difference in losses (10..15W for magnetic is quite good result; 5W for electronic is quite typical), but don't forget the HF ballast needs to feed the lamp by about 5..10% lower power for the same light output...
Logged

No more selfballasted c***

Print 
© 2005-2017 Lighting-Gallery.net | Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines