Author Topic: what Colour Temp can you not stand?  (Read 7031 times)
Lodge
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Re: what Colour Temp can you not stand? « Reply #15 on: May 28, 2017, 04:26:53 PM » Author: Lodge
But routine inspections don't solve the issues either, people just put in there regular lights before taking in there car, and once they are done they just put the HID / LED bulbs back in, the police really just need to pull over the people who have glaring lights, ticket them and tow the car so they learn, and they can tow it if it's not road legal.  But issuing photo radar tickets is easier. Plus while doing photo radar duties they get to sit there playing on there phone all day long ( at least that is what the cop does that parks in front of my place does all day / night long, yes they basically live there issuing a ticket every 45 seconds on average and updating facebook just as fast)

On the flip side it's also not hard to install proper projectors with the higher power bulbs so they actually have the correct optics and they are much nicer then stock lights and if your willing to go the DIY route it's not even that expensive and if your careful they also look great..   
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Re: what Colour Temp can you not stand? « Reply #16 on: May 28, 2017, 07:41:00 PM » Author: Mercurylamps
They are illegal here as well but rarely get enforced. It is frustrating when you get dazzled by headlights on an oncoming car which turns out to be standard reflector optics with HID retrofits installed.

If I was to upgrade my headlights to HID I'd use 4300K which is a nice, crisp white light for headlights compared to higher colour temperatures.
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Re: what Colour Temp can you not stand? « Reply #17 on: May 29, 2017, 03:26:27 AM » Author: Medved
The only road legal headlights (not only headlights, but all exterior lighting, plus many other technical requirements generally) are those, which are certified to meet the related technical standards. So any external lights not certified to meet these standards becomes illegal on roads.
And in most of the civilized world this is really enforced (technical inspections, roadside police force,...)...

Especially problematic for an aftermarket HID's is the requirement of headlights with low beam above 2000lm (HID's are about 3000lm, while halogens are around 1500lm) that includes advanced glare control (dynamic leveling,...), what means the headlight system needs support from the rest of the vehicle (manly suspension sensors plus the related ECU,...).
And that means practically no HID's could be ever made to comply to the standards without major car system update (cost would become in the few k$ range, plus the development and mainly the certification expenses in the range of 10's k$ (separate certification is needed per each car/headlight type combination).
So that means the only HID's viable for road use are those originally installed by the car maker - there the exact design is implemented on sufficient number of cars, the development and certification expenses could be "diluted" to become low enough to be at least somehow acceptable. And the cars are designed with that system from the start, so the system becomes not that expensive either.

The only function where the HID's could possibly be made road legal without the dynamic leveling are just the high beam. But using HID's just for high beam is not that viable upgrade at all, so the related market would be too small to justify even such simpler certification (the dynamic leveling response is, what makes the design and certification for low beam so complex, so expensive).
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Re: what Colour Temp can you not stand? « Reply #18 on: May 29, 2017, 08:00:05 AM » Author: wattMaster
I'm fine with most color temperatures, except for maybe the color of cheapo Chinese white LEDs.
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Re: what Colour Temp can you not stand? « Reply #19 on: May 29, 2017, 10:34:29 AM » Author: Ash
There is a problem with this stuff in Israel - The regulation is generally "the car cannot be modified" and thats it. They go to absurd extents with interpreting it -like bans on aftermarket "improved air intake filters" (whether they add anything to car performance is another question, but is not reason to ban them)

Some while ago i inquired in a car dealership whether a car (which is on display with ordinary Halogen headlights) is available with HID. The answer : The car is made with HID too but the "updated" version of this car was not imported. I asked whether the HID system itself (the original from the car manufacturer) can be ordered and installed. They say this is illegal
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Lodge
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Re: what Colour Temp can you not stand? « Reply #20 on: May 29, 2017, 03:14:24 PM » Author: Lodge
The only road legal headlights (not only headlights, but all exterior lighting, plus many other technical requirements generally) are those, which are certified to meet the related technical standards. So any external lights not certified to meet these standards becomes illegal on roads.
And in most of the civilized world this is really enforced (technical inspections, roadside police force,...)...

Especially problematic for an aftermarket HID's is the requirement of headlights with low beam above 2000lm (HID's are about 3000lm, while halogens are around 1500lm) that includes advanced glare control (dynamic leveling,...), what means the headlight system needs support from the rest of the vehicle (manly suspension sensors plus the related ECU,...).
And that means practically no HID's could be ever made to comply to the standards without major car system update (cost would become in the few k$ range, plus the development and mainly the certification expenses in the range of 10's k$ (separate certification is needed per each car/headlight type combination).
So that means the only HID's viable for road use are those originally installed by the car maker - there the exact design is implemented on sufficient number of cars, the development and certification expenses could be "diluted" to become low enough to be at least somehow acceptable. And the cars are designed with that system from the start, so the system becomes not that expensive either.

The only function where the HID's could possibly be made road legal without the dynamic leveling are just the high beam. But using HID's just for high beam is not that viable upgrade at all, so the related market would be too small to justify even such simpler certification (the dynamic leveling response is, what makes the design and certification for low beam so complex, so expensive).


I would of though it would cost thousands but thanks to ultrasonic sensors going main stream, with there use in things like back up sensors causing  the prices to fall drastically you only need one sensor mounted to the front underside of the car and two motorized mounts to move the whole headlight assembly up and down, to make it all work for about $300 from Hella, you can get cheaper systems as well but Hella is a well known high quality manufacturer, but these are not $10 ebay specials. However if you have routine inspections they might have an issue with the install, maybe, some mechanics only look to see if the light hits the lines on the wall without to much going astray so they might even pass it, but if you live somewhere that doesn't you are good to go, but please don't be like most other people and just go with the $10 ebay special HID kits..   

If you have the money, they also offer adaptive cutoff, vertical cutoff, auto high beam, and steering light bending all through the use of a window mounted camera / ODBii interface, and if you go with LED over HID lighting they can be even more responsive because of faster switching times actually turning on and off lighting as required and they are even working on automatic turn signals, another one of my pet peeves (why is so hard you use the switch right behind the steering wheel to tell others which way you are planning on going.)   

Oh about the enforcement, I've seen Green, Pink, Purple, Red and other high color temp HID head lighting like 20,000K, and I have yet to hear of a police officer issuing them a ticket, I know a guy who uses green headlights and he's only got a tinted window  / speeding  / noise violation / distracted driving tickets yet his lights are always on, and he's like a ticket attraction and gets ticketed every month or more but not a single one over the lights, the only thing I've heard about is uncovered off road lights on the roof, which are a factory installed stock lighting on a jeep, and it resulted in a warning only since they were not on but they are over the horizontal center line of the headlights from the manufacturer (so don't always think a car company follows the legislation either, because that setup was not road legal to sell, without covers, which you have to buy separately, but the dealership fails to mention this, or they wanted to make a few extra bucks and removed them, either way they were not included, allowing you to drive away in brand new jeep that is not road legal.)   
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Re: what Colour Temp can you not stand? « Reply #21 on: May 29, 2017, 03:39:13 PM » Author: Ash
I have seen some BMWs and Audis with adaptive LED lights. Maybe it satisfies the standard requirements, but when they come in front of you its still just as bad as staring into a LED COB through a telescope. No Halogen or HID car (including the ones that scream pull me over right now) ever blinded me like that

The automatic turn signals - need some technology to read my mind and guess where i want to turn before i turn. How is that supposed to work ?
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Re: what Colour Temp can you not stand? « Reply #22 on: May 29, 2017, 03:51:35 PM » Author: Lodge
Automotive turn signals, Camera following the road lines, analyzing the position of the car and steering wheel position, maybe GPS, it won't be perfect but it's a start.. 
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Re: what Colour Temp can you not stand? « Reply #23 on: May 29, 2017, 04:22:57 PM » Author: Ash
Here when you are in a lane which can only turn in a specific direction, you are not required to use a turn signal anyway. In all other cases your turn signal is the only sign that you are turning - before you started turning the wheel or getting closer to one side of the lane or anything

With manual turn signals and drivers that dont use them, i can atleast expect that some drivers are assholes, so simply interpret "no signal" as "no information" instead of "going straight". Automatic turn signals that shows the wrong signal is wrong information, and is on a whole different level of dangerous
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Re: what Colour Temp can you not stand? « Reply #24 on: May 29, 2017, 05:38:23 PM » Author: suzukir122
I've just never understood the whole 10,000k-20,000k HID's or LED's for car headlamps, or any vehicle for that matter.
Why do they even exist? Don't get me wrong, I understand attempting to pimp up the car (old school reference) throwing in
a supercharger or turbo charger to increase horsepower, carbon fiber rims, custom exhausts... but 20,000k headlamps?
That's literally pleading to get pulled over.

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Re: what Colour Temp can you not stand? « Reply #25 on: May 29, 2017, 09:55:37 PM » Author: Ash
This is pimping up the car, in the same way as anything else you mentioned (nothing of it have any effect on the performance of a typical family car..)

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Re: what Colour Temp can you not stand? « Reply #26 on: May 29, 2017, 10:56:20 PM » Author: Lodge
This is pimping up the car, in the same way as anything else you mentioned (nothing of it have any effect on the performance of a typical family car..)



Well there is some nice modifications you can do, older Cadillac's have forward looking infrared cameras (Raytheon thermal 240x320 BST) in there front grill and from time to time they show up in the auto wreckers, and most people don't know what they are. So they are like two or three bucks, or 150 to 500 on Ebay. Those are pretty slick when people come at you with blinding lighting and for the most part they are a pretty straight forward install, complete with a simple NTSC analog output and power line, while you shouldn't drive via a camera, it's got a 60 Hz refresh rate so it's a nice option and safer then getting blinded by some jerk with a few LED light bars switched on or driving off the road, they also find deers in complete darkness before they end up on your hood. They also don't care what color temp the headlights are, even the IR led light bars (yes they do exist) don't even show up as much unless they have been on for a while and are warmer, and if you install it yourself you also can defeat the headlight on wire so it will work in complete darkness unlike the Cadillac which you have to have the headlights on for it to work..

Sorry Ash since it has a dual use status it is export restricted, so they won't show up outside of North America, something about the International Traffic in Arms Regulations get in the way... 

I could also see using a UVA light source headlights because they are not overly bright to look it if properly filtered but they make most clothing glow brightly and they aren't really affected by fog or rain and will highlight anything that is florescent like workers vests and some road signs... 

But yes 20,000 K lighting really is saying ticket me for something, it might not be the lighting but if the cops go looking hard enough they can find something to ticket you for, or they will follow you for miles and miles until you do something wrong..
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Re: what Colour Temp can you not stand? « Reply #27 on: May 30, 2017, 02:11:54 AM » Author: Mercurylamps
I've just never understood the whole 10,000k-20,000k HID's or LED's for car headlamps, or any vehicle for that matter.
Why do they even exist? Don't get me wrong, I understand attempting to pimp up the car (old school reference) throwing in
a supercharger or turbo charger to increase horsepower, carbon fiber rims, custom exhausts... but 20,000k headlamps?
That's literally pleading to get pulled over.



What about the cars with blacked out head/tail lights? That is common here for some reason and I think it is dangerous. Because their tail lights are tinted/blacked out it can be hard to see their signal, brake or reverse lights except for in dull conditions. I've "pimped" up my car a little with tints (especially the stationwagon area which only has 5%. There is a reversing camera fitted so I can still see when reversing.)

On my headlight assemblies has markings for halogen and HID somewhere in terms of adjustment for beams. Perhaps the original Japan spec uses HID while overseas markets are halogen. I use Philips XtremeVision H7 bulbs and find them to be excellent.

But yeah the HID colour above 8000K is only for show really. Even 6000K is borderline for me. That being said, I wouldn't mind converting a big halogen torch into a HID one and if I do I'll upload some pictures.

Oh about the enforcement, I've seen Green, Pink, Purple, Red and other high color temp HID head lighting like 20,000K, and I have yet to hear of a police officer issuing them a ticket, I know a guy who uses green headlights and he's only got a tinted window  / speeding  / noise violation / distracted driving tickets yet his lights are always on, and he's like a ticket attraction and gets ticketed every month or more but not a single one over the lights, the only thing I've heard about is uncovered off road lights on the roof, which are a factory installed stock lighting on a jeep

Despite HIDs installed in non-HID fittings here, I've never heard of anyone getting a ticket. If done right like using projectors and properly aligned I doubt the police would care really. As for lights being installed on the roof, a lot of 4 wheel drive owners here like to install bright LED light bars or spotlights on the roof and use them in traffic which is downright dangerous and dazzling. I can also see the issue that it lights up the hood of the vehicle and affecting his/her night time vision. Auxiliary driving lights have to be wired into the high beam circuit here so they can operate only when the high beams are turned on.
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Re: what Colour Temp can you not stand? « Reply #28 on: May 30, 2017, 03:37:29 AM » Author: suzukir122
@Mercurylamps, the blacked out tail lights I also never really understood but I assume that's likely
for show as well.
@Ash, most of the time adding a supercharger or turbo charger (if done correctly and safely) will definitely
effect the performance of the car... at least in terms of horsepower/acceleration. And carbon fiber rims would
most likely be much lighter than stock rims, so that would also effect performance as well. Custom exhausts, though louder,
will also increase horsepower. (Not by much) 
But adding 10,000k to 20,000k HID's or LED's is more for show than anything else. That's a "modification" that I think is
unbelievably stupid.
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Re: what Colour Temp can you not stand? « Reply #29 on: May 31, 2017, 04:49:49 AM » Author: Mercurylamps
I wouldn't mind having a turbocharger fitted in my car, it would be beneficial in climbing steep grades when fully packed on road trips without losing speed.

One thing regarding colour temperatures, I hate it when warm white CFLs seem to turn yellow as they age. They develop a dull yellow colour that feels quite depressing. I believe this may be due to the phosphor degrading, some CFLs are bad for this in particular the Philips Genie lamps.

Also I hate the colour from cheap LEDs like the basic 3mm/5mm packages. It isn't a pleasant white light and isn't suitable for lighting other than a basic flashlight.
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