Author Topic: are 75/80w mercs interchangeable?  (Read 2906 times)
Lumex120
Member
*****
Offline

Gender: Male
View Posts
View Gallery

/X rated


UCM30tBQDUECOV6VeG5W87Vg
WWW
are 75/80w mercs interchangeable? « on: July 19, 2017, 10:38:23 PM » Author: Lumex120
To make a long story short, I might be getting a 75w MV postline ballast soon , and if I do, I want to set up a decorative post top light in the front yard. Since the lamp is going to be visible in the fixture I am considering, I would like to use an 80w A23 lamp (available on 1000bulbs) instead of an ED17 lamp. Are the lamps interchangeable or are they different voltages and won't work with each other?
« Last Edit: July 19, 2017, 10:44:09 PM by Lumex120 » Logged

Unofficial LG Discord

HomeBrewLamps
Member
*****
Offline

Gender: Male
View Posts
View Gallery


SodiumVapor 105843202020668111118 UCpGClK_9OH8N4QkD1fp-jNw majorpayne1226 187567902@N04/
Re: are 75/80w mercs interchangeable? « Reply #1 on: July 29, 2017, 04:04:30 PM » Author: HomeBrewLamps
I would imagine 75/80W being that its only a 5 watt difference would not cause much harm, although i may be wrong there, slightly overdriven and slightly underdriven lamps... not sure how the life would be affected ...
Logged

~Owen

:colorbulb: Scavenger, Urban Explorer, Lighting Enthusiast and Creator of homebrewlamps 8) :colorbulb:

Ash
Member
*****
Offline

View Posts
View Gallery


Re: are 75/80w mercs interchangeable? « Reply #2 on: July 29, 2017, 05:02:46 PM » Author: Ash
Arc voltage and current specs may be different, leading to even opposite results from what would be expected..

Just as example, a 70W HPS lamp is underdriven, not overdriven, on 80W Mercury ballast. And the ballast is overloaded (though not very severely in this case)
Logged
Silverliner
Administrator
Member
*****
Offline

Gender: Male
View Posts
View Gallery

Rare white reflector


GoL
Re: are 75/80w mercs interchangeable? « Reply #3 on: August 03, 2017, 07:41:31 PM » Author: Silverliner
An 80w mercury lamp is 115v, 0.8A.
A 75w mercury lamp is 130v, 0.64A

So the differences are more than just a 5w difference.
Logged

Administrator of Lighting-Gallery.net. Need help? PM me.

Member of L-G since 2005.

Collector of vintage bulbs, street lights and fluorescent fixtures.

Electrician.

Also a fan of cars, travelling, working out, food, hanging out.

Power company: Southern California Edison.

lights*plus
Member
*****
Offline

Gender: Male
View Posts
View Gallery

George Liv Photo


GoL george.liv.37 UC_OfF2pa6aOcXLAut16jw9g
WWW
Re: are 75/80w mercs interchangeable? « Reply #4 on: August 05, 2017, 04:00:50 PM » Author: lights*plus
The ANSI ballast codes are:
Mercury Vapor
40w    – H45
50w    – H46
75/80w  – H43
100w    – H38
100/125w – H44

But since Power = Volts x Amps, then

115v x 0.8A = 92w for the 80w MV and,
130v x 0.64A = 83w for the 75w MV.
Logged
Ash
Member
*****
Offline

View Posts
View Gallery


Re: are 75/80w mercs interchangeable? « Reply #5 on: August 05, 2017, 04:52:04 PM » Author: Ash
Power = Volts x Amps x Power Factor

For most HID and Fluorescent lamps the power factor of the lamp itself (regardless of the ballast used) is around 0.85

Logged
lights*plus
Member
*****
Offline

Gender: Male
View Posts
View Gallery

George Liv Photo


GoL george.liv.37 UC_OfF2pa6aOcXLAut16jw9g
WWW
Re: are 75/80w mercs interchangeable? « Reply #6 on: August 05, 2017, 07:12:24 PM » Author: lights*plus
With a capacitor in series with the lamp, wouldn't the power factor be .9 or better?
Logged
Ash
Member
*****
Offline

View Posts
View Gallery


Re: are 75/80w mercs interchangeable? « Reply #7 on: August 05, 2017, 07:38:39 PM » Author: Ash
This is the power factor of the lamp itself as would be measured across the lamp, not including the gear

The power factor we normally talk about (that can be high or low with different setups) is of the entire system, as would be measured across the line power input to the luminaire
Logged
Medved
Member
*****
Offline

Gender: Male
View Posts
View Gallery

Re: are 75/80w mercs interchangeable? « Reply #8 on: August 08, 2017, 03:54:54 AM » Author: Medved
With a capacitor in series with the lamp, wouldn't the power factor be .9 or better?

Ironically with capacitor in series, so a lead type ballast, the lamp power factor will be even lower.

The power factor is defined as a ratio between the real net powertransfer vs the product of rms voltage and current.
Mathematically it says, how much the voltage and current correlate to each other. And so unity power factor means they bave the same frequency and phase of all harmonic components. In other word the same frequency, phase and shape of the waveform.
With just linear coils, capacitors and resistors on a sinewave supply the shape of all signals remains sinewave on the same frequency as the supply, so the only possible cause for lower power factor is the phase shift. Because most real things in the AC power distribution are linear inductances and resistances, that is all what electricians think of, when speaking about power factor.

But discharges are a nonlinear devices, such they virtually convert any current feed shape into roughly rectangular voltage. That means the lamps generate higher harmonics in their voltage.
With just inductive impedances as ballasts, the higher harmonics see higher reactance, so practically do not generate any harmonics in the current at all. With resistive and mainly capacitive ballast some of the higher harmonics are not filtered out, so they form an extra current component in the feed, but in a different phase than generated with the lamp.

Because the higher harmonics are not present in the current, or are in a wrong phase, they do contribute to the rms values of the voltage and current, so contribute to the Vrm×Arms product but they either do not form any power. Hence the power is smaller.

With plain inductive ballast, so a sinewave current and a rectangular voltage the power factor is exactly 2×sqrt(2)/pi=0.900316...
The ballast with a series capacitor tend to feed the lamp with rather spiky current,where the spikes add up quite significant,y on the rms (the nature of the squaring), but not that much with the power (just linear dependence,whe the voltage is constant inthat section of the square). As a consequence, the power factor of about 0.7 or 0.8 is not that uncommon with e.g. CWA (adds its own spikes due to the saturation based magnetic regulation).
Logged

No more selfballasted c***

Print 
© 2005-2024 Lighting-Gallery.net | SMF 2.0.19 | SMF © 2021, Simple Machines | Terms and Policies