Author Topic: Emergency lighting on new LED streetlights  (Read 652 times)
tolivac
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Re: Emergency lighting on new LED streetlights « Reply #15 on: August 11, 2017, 10:52:36 PM » Author: tolivac
This is a neat system in a way-but yes could be subject to hackers unless it operates from a system that is NOT connected to the public internet.There could be some danger of the flashing lights-this many-that could trigger epileptic sezures in some people or worse if they are driving at the time the red flashers are activated.And--Its illegal anywhere for a driver to be wearing headphones.Passengers-OK.
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Re: Emergency lighting on new LED streetlights « Reply #16 on: August 11, 2017, 11:46:16 PM » Author: dor123
I really dislike the trend of making everything smart. I also worry about driverless cars in the future. I don't want a computer driving me around, what if it glitches and causes a crash?  Shocked
Me to.

At least, Gaash lighting Apollo smart LED lanterns, don't have that horrible feature, but I hope that this feature in general won't be commercialized, as not only it causes a lot of flashing lights on the road, which can cause traffic accidents, it can cause noise nuisances.
This is exactly like putting small civil defence sirens on each lamppost.
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I"m don't speak english well, and rely on online translating to write in this site.
Please forgive me if my choice of my words looks like offensive, while that isn't my intention.

I hope that LED won't replace all forms of other lighting.

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Re: Emergency lighting on new LED streetlights « Reply #17 on: August 11, 2017, 11:50:25 PM » Author: Roi_hartmann
The problem with IoT is that there is no way to assume that regular people that is not a computer enthusiast or doing that for work is going to set up any servers in home or doing any programming or other complicated setups in home. There are lot's of people that use computer in daily but dont have a clue how to set up a firewall. Those people still want these IoT gadgets and that means there have to be ease to use and easy to set up solutions. That's why IoT market is going to take apple like way to implement things very easy to use and not like linux. That is also the reason why linux has so small market share in a home computer os.

Lots of IoT things also has to have access to internet to get the benefit from them. Think about for example a wahing machine, You might want to be able to turn it on when you are in work and know when you can get back home. Or on a hot day you could switch on AC of your home when you're still on your way to there. And when you get there, you have nicely cooled home. When you are shopping, you could check did you have thing x in the fridge or would you have to buy that even if you forgot to do it when you were in home. Also the fridge could sent you an alarm if it's notices malfunction so you might be able to save it's content before it spoils. When you are in vacation your neighbour calls that you forgot lights on in your bathroom. No worries, you take your cellphone and log in your house controller and turn them off.

The problem, as seen on with smart tv things is that the software has to be kept updated as there allways comes up new security holes and bugs. This will cause cost to manufacturers and at somepoint they will say "this product is no longer supported, buy a new one" meaning that while the machine can still work well, it does not receive new security and is there for potential thread. But like with smart tvs and Iphones (that apple had end it's support) and many more it equiptments people still continue to use those as the thing itself still work. How many people would buy a new washing machine if previous one was just 5 years old and manufacturer said no more updates or invest as much as several thousand to change smart house controller system to newer model

Edit. Good expensive manufacturers like Miele could support it's products quite long but I would not expecred Candy-branded one receive many updates if not even one. There are also lot's of cheap chinese networks things where security is never been considered

This site demostrate well how underrated as basic stuff as changing default password is: http://www.insecam.org

« Last Edit: August 12, 2017, 12:02:31 AM by Roi_hartmann » Logged

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Re: Emergency lighting on new LED streetlights « Reply #18 on: August 12, 2017, 12:14:07 AM » Author: Roi_hartmann
I really dislike the trend of making everything smart. I also worry about driverless cars in the future. I don't want a computer driving me around, what if it glitches and causes a crash?  Shocked

I have a Sangamo time switch from the early 1970s that still works daily and it is electromechanical meanwhile I just three out a 9 month old digital time switch after it went bang and died. Undecided
I think the conversation from liability question is going on currently since some early robot cars are allready been tested.

But otherwise the biggest cause of traffict accidents is human error, be it either driving under the influence, doing something else while driving or driving while tired etc. One might be a good driver but that not necessarily help if drunk driver smahes on you car in intersection. If robot cars become common, they could revolutionized whole personal transpotation, but there is still lot do be done before thst. Smart cars with additional helping features comes first.
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Re: Emergency lighting on new LED streetlights « Reply #19 on: August 12, 2017, 12:48:08 AM » Author: Lodge
The problem with IoT is that there is no way to assume that regular people that is not a computer enthusiast or doing that for work is going to set up any servers in home or doing any programming or other complicated setups in home. There are lot's of people that use computer in daily but dont have a clue how to set up a firewall. Those people still want these IoT gadgets and that means there have to be ease to use and easy to set up solutions. That's why IoT market is going to take apple like way to implement things very easy to use and not like linux. That is also the reason why linux has so small market share in a home computer os.

Lots of IoT things also has to have access to internet to get the benefit from them. Think about for example a wahing machine, You might want to be able to turn it on when you are in work and know when you can get back home. Or on a hot day you could switch on AC of your home when you're still on your way to there. And when you get there, you have nicely cooled home. When you are shopping, you could check did you have thing x in the fridge or would you have to buy that even if you forgot to do it when you were in home. Also the fridge could sent you an alarm if it's notices malfunction so you might be able to save it's content before it spoils. When you are in vacation your neighbour calls that you forgot lights on in your bathroom. No worries, you take your cellphone and log in your house controller and turn them off.

The problem, as seen on with smart tv things is that the software has to be kept updated as there allways comes up new security holes and bugs. This will cause cost to manufacturers and at somepoint they will say "this product is no longer supported, buy a new one" meaning that while the machine can still work well, it does not receive new security and is there for potential thread. But like with smart tvs and Iphones (that apple had end it's support) and many more it equiptments people still continue to use those as the thing itself still work. How many people would buy a new washing machine if previous one was just 5 years old and manufacturer said no more updates or invest as much as several thousand to change smart house controller system to newer model

Edit. Good expensive manufacturers like Miele could support it's products quite long but I would not expecred Candy-branded one receive many updates if not even one. There are also lot's of cheap chinese networks things where security is never been considered

This site demostrate well how underrated as basic stuff as changing default password is: http://www.insecam.org



And when you have to replace the smart house controller, rest assured the next model won't be compatible with any of the smart stuff you have in the house already, so it's now time for new lights, new door locks, new garage door opener, new vacuum, new hot water tank, new thermostats, new smoke detectors, new window blind activators, new propane tank gauge, new water leak detector, new security cameras, new security alarm, new baby monitor, new washer, new dryer, new air-filter, new TV's, new crock-pot, new coffee machine, new Alexa or Echo, new sprinkler system, new smart plugs, new speaker system, new doorbell, new oven, new tv remote, new smart vents, new tide button, new pet tracking collar, new streaming device, new smart bed, new microwave, new bathroom weigh scale, new shower head, new AC, new toothbrush, new footwear, new fertility tracker, and most important new Nekomimi Brainwave cat ears, they are telling me you may as well just move and get a new house...

All of those things are real IOT devices and there is lots I missed and really the sun will still come up tomorrow with out them...     
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Re: Emergency lighting on new LED streetlights « Reply #20 on: August 12, 2017, 02:12:23 AM » Author: Ash
I really dislike the trend of making everything smart. I also worry about driverless cars in the future. I don't want a computer driving me around, what if it glitches and causes a crash?
The smart car proponents say that it is safer than human driving, and that eventually it would be a no-brainer to ban manual cars from the road to make everything safer

Statistically they might even be correct, after all human drivers are mediocre.. But :

 - I want my control over my dangers, even if not all is in my hands (e.g. a manual or smart car might crash into me and not me into it), or if statistically it makes the danger higher

 - I want to take decisions a smart car might not be programmed to - swerve to avoid a small animal for example. Smart car might be programmed to run over animals to be safer to its passengers or to preserve the car

 - I want to be able to break all traffic rules when i need it, even though i am not going to need it every day. A smart car won't let me speed when i need to get somewhere urgent, push a 4th or 5th passenger on the back seat and run red lights when escaping from a hurricane, and so on

 - I want to ba able to use the car in ways not programmed in. Help pull a car from the curb, which requires more manual maneuvering than getting from place A to place B. Even something as basic as getting through a driveway or into a tight (and not rectangular shaped and horizontal) parking spot in some of our villages might be beyond the car's capability

 - I want to be able to overload the car sometimes - When pulling that other car from the curb, when it is getting hot and it have to pull through for a little longer before i can look at the issue, or whatever...



At least, Gaash lighting Apollo smart LED lanterns, don't have that horrible feature, but I hope that this feature in general won't be commercialized, as not only it causes a lot of flashing lights on the road, which can cause traffic accidents, it can cause noise nuisances.
This is exactly like putting small civil defence sirens on each lamppost.
Gaash Appolo is bad enough with the non flashing White light coming from below

The flashing in the video is quite bad, but its just showing the concept. if it is done slower and if the flashers are synced, this won't be epileptic

They are just flashers, they dont contain a siren. The way it is now, with the siren on the emergency vehicle only, you can know from where the EV will come by the direction from which the sound comes. With sirens on every lantern this won't work, so would be a disadvantage



The problem with IoT is that there is no way to assume that regular people that is not a computer enthusiast or doing that for work is going to set up any servers in home or doing any programming or other complicated setups in home
Then hire a specialist to complete the installation, same as hiring an electrician or plumber

The demands from the device are still the same, being fully controllable by the owner (or specialist on his behalf) and not by anyone else. Then it is up to the user to choose a specialist he trusts, but this is not a technology issue

I use my Linux system (oldschool Gentoo linux, that requires understanding to install and use, not Ubuntu) and it suits me perfectly. I dont care what anyone uses, be it Apple, Linux and so on. In an IOT context, i want to be able to get a device with system as i want. Manufacturers may pose a problem if they only make devices integrated with a system i dont want and cannot be replaced



Lots of IoT things also has to have access to internet to get the benefit from them
Security of such devices is very well manageable as long as they are kept simple and basic. Its when they try to complicate things too much, they open up security holes



The problem, as seen on with smart tv things is that the software has to be kept updated as there allways comes up new security holes and bugs
Partially agree

The more basic things are made, the less is there to go wrong. With some basic device like a machine that accepts remote on/off, it can be made only as capable as verifying a password and getting the on/off command. There is only so much that can go wrong there...



I'd like to bring up other points :

Your smart fridge ordered for you something you didnt ask for "because the supermarket company wants to promote a product so is giving free samples"

Your smart TV detects that you dont care that your kids watch non "family friendly" materials when you are away. And does something about it

Your smart meter detects that you use non energy efficient lighting. And you get mail recommendations from the power company to upgrade

In short, the devices not minding their own business
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Re: Emergency lighting on new LED streetlights « Reply #21 on: August 12, 2017, 03:38:16 AM » Author: Roi_hartmann
-Then hire a specialist to complete the installation, same as hiring an electrician or plumber

If there are two products with same price and same specifications in the market, one that recommends using a specialist to set it up and other that advertises it's so simple to use you can set it up youself I would say that majority of regular people will choose the later product. It's been seen on the other things as well. What kind of message would you think that gives to manufacturers? There probably will be some need for some sort of home it specialist in the future but not something every people will want spent their money. That's why even now people will fumble with their own electrical installation while not knowing what to do instead of calling electrician.

-The demands from the device are still the same, being fully controllable by the owner (or specialist on his behalf) and not by anyone else. Then it is up to the user to choose a specialist he trusts, but this is not a technology issue

I don't think there is going to be much demand in fully configurable "too hard to use for normal household owner" household devices. IoT is not going to remain as marginal thing and that is the challenge. Giving users technology they don't understand well enought could cause problem. Ultimate example is chernobyl.

-I use my Linux system (oldschool Gentoo linux, that requires understanding to install and use, not Ubuntu) and it suits me perfectly. I dont care what anyone uses, be it Apple, Linux and so on. In an IOT context, i want to be able to get a device with system as i want. Manufacturers may pose a problem if they only make devices integrated with a system i dont want and cannot be replaced



-Security of such devices is very well manageable as long as they are kept simple and basic. Its when they try to complicate things too much, they open up security holes


-Partially agree

-The more basic things are made, the less is there to go wrong. With some basic device like a machine that accepts remote on/off, it can be made only as capable as verifying a password and getting the on/off command. There is only so much that can go wrong there...

Simple devices are usually the one's where security is kept in mind even lesser. Lot's of opensource software is used where there is no guaranteet how safe or secure the software really is. There are lot's of simple and unsecure authentication methods used and some devices have other flaws like webserver that is configured unsafely (by the manufacturer)   

-I'd like to bring up other points :

-Your smart fridge ordered for you something you didnt ask for "because the supermarket company wants to promote a product so is giving free samples"

-Your smart TV detects that you dont care that your kids watch non "family friendly" materials when you are away. And does something about it

-Your smart meter detects that you use non energy efficient lighting. And you get mail recommendations from the power company to upgrade

-In short, the devices not minding their own business

Yes and there are people who willingly share all their lives in a facebook which then analyze that info to provide dedicated advertisements to the user. Lot's of other "free" internet services do this like google and youtube. Also some credit card companies do this, most customer loalty programs. My phone company gives discount if I agree to receive ads via txt msg or email. and still majority of people are okay with it.

With that way, manufacturer can compensate cost of what keeping software up to date causes

And I don't even go to how this could be used for things like hybrid warfare or cyber terrorism. Think about something like some petya like ransomware locking peoples tvs or washing machines and demanding payment in bitcoin.

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Re: Emergency lighting on new LED streetlights « Reply #22 on: August 12, 2017, 02:59:39 PM » Author: HomeBrewLamps
i dont want a computer driving me around either.... it'd make life so bland and boring
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Re: Emergency lighting on new LED streetlights « Reply #23 on: August 12, 2017, 04:48:28 PM » Author: FGS
I'd like to bring up other points :

Your smart fridge ordered for you something you didnt ask for "because the supermarket company wants to promote a product so is giving free samples"

Your smart TV detects that you dont care that your kids watch non "family friendly" materials when you are away. And does something about it

Your smart meter detects that you use non energy efficient lighting. And you get mail recommendations from the power company to upgrade

In short, the devices not minding their own business

"Do you want fridge to order things from grocery store automatically? (Y/N). N"
Problem solved. The fridge will just text you what's gonna spoil soon or about to run out. In other words it sends a grocery list. And you'd buy stuff needed. Rory knows how many times I've forgotten to buy something that ran out in the fridge. Even the gallon of milk jug. Embarrassed

Do you want your kids to watch mega violent movies or even pornography? Didn't think so. No one with at least half a brain does. If smart TVs are dealing with such a careless parenting move. About time. I'll support such a feature. Too many "parents" that doesn't take proper care of their kids. Letting them watch whatever they want. Transformers is big in Israel? No need for the rather violent movies. There's cartoons/animes versions of it. Optimus Prime is still the same big ol 18 wheeler whether it's drawn or CGI.

Smart meter sensing what's being used in the house. How do the smart meter even tell what's consuming electricity. What if you have 10x 6w LED bulbs instead of one 60w incandescent bulb on one switch. Or MR-16 LEDs vs Halogens on electronic PSU track lighting.
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Why I like LEDs on top of other lighting tech?
LEDs = Upgrade 95% of the applications. (That is if you avoid eBay's LEDs).


LED brainwash? No, people uses them cuz they work well for them.

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Re: Emergency lighting on new LED streetlights « Reply #24 on: August 12, 2017, 06:42:12 PM » Author: HomeBrewLamps
my smart meter does not seem to care about me blasting 1000W lights... lmao

although i quite miss the old spinny disk thing that used to be there
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Re: Emergency lighting on new LED streetlights « Reply #25 on: August 12, 2017, 10:45:14 PM » Author: tolivac
"computer" or remote actuated washers,dishwashers-it really isn't a safe idea to run these machines when you aren't home or asleep-you could wake up or come home to a fire or flood!I won't allow ANY of my washers,dishwashers,dryers or any cooking machine to operate when I am not home or awake.I don't need a "smart" washer,dishwasher,dryer,oven,stove,or fridge.And these could be too subject to failure.Stick with my couple decades old machines,thank you.They are just fine!
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Re: Emergency lighting on new LED streetlights « Reply #26 on: August 13, 2017, 12:22:15 AM » Author: Lodge
my smart meter does not seem to care about me blasting 1000W lights... lmao

although i quite miss the old spinny disk thing that used to be there

Who ever gets the power bill might care... But so long as your not running it 24/7 they most likely won't notice it...
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Re: Emergency lighting on new LED streetlights « Reply #27 on: August 13, 2017, 12:27:09 AM » Author: Ash
"Do you want fridge to order things from grocery store automatically? (Y/N). N"
Problem solved. The fridge will just text you what's gonna spoil soon or about to run out. In other words it sends a grocery list. And you'd buy stuff needed. Rory knows how many times I've forgotten to buy something that ran out in the fridge. Even the gallon of milk jug. Embarrassed

Do you want your kids to watch mega violent movies or even pornography? Didn't think so. No one with at least half a brain does. If smart TVs are dealing with such a careless parenting move. About time. I'll support such a feature. Too many "parents" that doesn't take proper care of their kids. Letting them watch whatever they want. Transformers is big in Israel? No need for the rather violent movies. There's cartoons/animes versions of it. Optimus Prime is still the same big ol 18 wheeler whether it's drawn or CGI.

Smart meter sensing what's being used in the house. How do the smart meter even tell what's consuming electricity. What if you have 10x 6w LED bulbs instead of one 60w incandescent bulb on one switch. Or MR-16 LEDs vs Halogens on electronic PSU track lighting.
They are examples of smart devices i use representing somebody else's interests or views, who "knows better what everyone needs". If i take the time i can think of better examples, but i think they are sufficient to show the point intended



Fridge : It comes down to how things are implemented -

If the "thinking" is local, done according to a simple, short and clear logic i can view and alter, and out go only aggregated orders to the shop (or texts to me), fine. If i choose to add code that evaluates what i might want from the shop's list of offers, fine too
Code:
for i in ( configuredShops )
download ShopCatalog_i , ShopDiscounts_i

if previouslyOrdered = "false" && newProduct = "true" && class = "apples" && netW / price < select( MyReasonablePrices , "apples" ) && discount = "true" && price / usualPrice < 0.7
addToWishList( select( MySampleSize , "apples" ))

for item in ( WishList )
cheapestShop = find ( shop ) where ( netW / price ) = min
addToOrders ( item ,  cheapestShop )
This can be wrapped in some GUI for the user

If the decision making is done on the shop's servers and is subject to them altering it as they please, not fine, no matter whether they provide a disclaimer or any Y/N options



TV : I think if something ain't an imminent grave danger or extremely bad misbehaviour towards other people, then it does not need taking immediate action to interrupt

Kids watching porn on smart TV without my knowledge is not in any of them. So it can wait till i find out and teach them some sex ed, (if i havent done already by the age in which they might get interested in porn at all), or maybe i won't ever find out because nothing happened. Please explain how they are going to die from it or who are the other people impacted by the misbehavior, and who put the TV manufacturer in charge of enforcing mpaa ratings



Lighting : Just comparing your use to an average. Maybe not with 60W but with bigger wattage, you'll stand out as you use 10 LED bulbs where everyone else uses 5



"computer" or remote actuated washers,dishwashers-it really isn't a safe idea to run these machines when you aren't home or asleep-you could wake up or come home to a fire or flood!I won't allow ANY of my washers,dishwashers,dryers or any cooking machine to operate when I am not home or awake.I don't need a "smart" washer,dishwasher,dryer,oven,stove,or fridge.And these could be too subject to failure.Stick with my couple decades old machines,thank you.They are just fine!
For a fire to start something in the appliance or in the wiring must be done very unsafely. This is not a smart appliance issue

For a flood to start there must be some serious failure of the appliance, the drain pipe pulled out and so on. The flood by failure can be prevented by an extra sensor. The drain pipe pulled out - That's your business to connect it securely..

While i'm fine with my decades old machines as well, i can see somebody needing a smart appliance, but at the same time it have to be trustable, secure, and as reliable/servicable as possible (even if it cannot match the reliability of a stupid appliance). Or even me, but then i will just connect my existing appliance through a contactor controlled by a computer
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Re: Emergency lighting on new LED streetlights « Reply #28 on: August 13, 2017, 12:28:23 AM » Author: HomeBrewLamps
Who ever gets the power bill might care... But so long as your not running it 24/7 they most likely won't notice it...


i've only run the thing 3 times... and all those times total to about 2 hours (one of those times i ran it for about an hour)
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Re: Emergency lighting on new LED streetlights « Reply #29 on: August 13, 2017, 12:46:18 AM » Author: Lodge

i've only run the thing 3 times... and all those times total to about 2 hours (one of those times i ran it for about an hour)

They won't notice the $0.33 you added to it, but if you did it 24/7 they would notice the $82 a month they will use, (if your power is 11 cents / Kwh ) 
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