Author Topic: 70w Sylvania Metalarc problem  (Read 2023 times)
Lumex120
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70w Sylvania Metalarc problem « on: September 30, 2017, 07:16:45 PM » Author: Lumex120
I just recently got 6 (yes, 6) new open-rated Sylvania Metalarcs from Restore for $0.50 each. There is a huge pile of them and I might go back and get some more. However, one of the lamps won't work even on the proper ballast. It seems to have a brown sludge (probably the halide salts) accumulated around the bottom electrode. I really would like to get it working since it is new and they have a nice color that is perfect for indoor use. Since my camera disappeared a long time ago, I can't take any pictures, but is there anything I could do to try to get it working again?
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Re: 70w Sylvania Metalarc problem « Reply #1 on: September 30, 2017, 07:39:13 PM » Author: wattMaster
I have the same problem with my GE muti-vapor, it has the brown sludge stuff and won't start up.
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Re: 70w Sylvania Metalarc problem « Reply #2 on: October 01, 2017, 12:54:54 AM » Author: Mercurylamps
I wonder if it would be possible to try and light it upside down for the salts to vapourise and settle somewhere else? Just a thought. :-[
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RyanF40T12
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Re: 70w Sylvania Metalarc problem « Reply #3 on: October 01, 2017, 01:59:29 AM » Author: RyanF40T12
No high pressure sodium lamp is perfect for indoor use given it's low CRI.  But whatever floats your boat.  That being said, throw the bulb away, there won't be much if anything you can do to get it to work.  I've dealt with a number of these over the years. 
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Re: 70w Sylvania Metalarc problem « Reply #4 on: October 01, 2017, 02:13:44 AM » Author: Lodge
How long are you leaving them plugged in, I've had one kinda like that it took about half an hour to start up but after that it was all good, it might of also got a few good raps from a finger while it was not working, I have a bad habit or doing that when things aren't working, and I let it run all night long once it fired up..

And are you running it on magnetic or solid state gear, because if it's solid state you might be triggering the EOL protection on the ballast...

do you have any higher wattage gear in pulse start just to see if you can get it to start up ? (like a 400 watt HPS, you don't need to run it very long just a few seconds to clean of the electrodes and see if it actually works or not )  
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HomeBrewLamps
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Re: 70w Sylvania Metalarc problem « Reply #5 on: October 01, 2017, 11:47:26 AM » Author: HomeBrewLamps
No high pressure sodium lamp is perfect for indoor use given it's low CRI.  But whatever floats your boat.  That being said, throw the bulb away, there won't be much if anything you can do to get it to work.  I've dealt with a number of these over the years. 

Metalarcs are Metal halide lamps ryan..

and HPS does float my boat indoors lmao... my parents actually like it too.
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Lumex120
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Re: 70w Sylvania Metalarc problem « Reply #6 on: October 01, 2017, 01:37:22 PM » Author: Lumex120
How long are you leaving them plugged in, I've had one kinda like that it took about half an hour to start up but after that it was all good, it might of also got a few good raps from a finger while it was not working, I have a bad habit or doing that when things aren't working, and I let it run all night long once it fired up..

And are you running it on magnetic or solid state gear, because if it's solid state you might be triggering the EOL protection on the ballast...

do you have any higher wattage gear in pulse start just to see if you can get it to start up ? (like a 400 watt HPS, you don't need to run it very long just a few seconds to clean of the electrodes and see if it actually works or not )  
Alright, it's working now. Before I was leaving it on for 2-3 seconds and then shutting it off. Now I left it on for about 3 minutes and it finally started and warmed up. I left it running base-up to get rid of the accumulation. These don't seem to be too old considering how they have LEDvance on the packaging. I have never seen a pulse start lamp do this, but I do know that probe start lamps can.
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Medved
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Re: 70w Sylvania Metalarc problem « Reply #7 on: October 01, 2017, 01:53:58 PM » Author: Medved
What the "does not work" mean? It cycles, just flashes and does not want to form a proper arc, or just makes small sprks on ignitor, or no traces of any discharge at all?
If any of these except the cycling, it may just mean the atmosphere condensed so, the ignition voltage is above the ignitors capability.
Then you may try to revive it by connecting to an automotive Xe-MH ballast:
It offers very high ignition voltage, so it will for sure ignite some discharge somewhere.
It provides rather high voltage headroom for theglow to arc transition and electrode warmup, so will be able to clean the electrode surface.
Definitely it is the last chance to form an arc in the burner and let the cleaning processes do their business. Of course, there is quite significant risk the arc forms somewhere else than within the burner (if there is really some hard fault within the lamp), so damage the lamp further, but as the lamp is otherwise dead anyway, I dont think it is a big problem. Just install the setup so, an eventual bulb shatter (when an arc strikes where it should not) will get contained and the mess easily cleaned up (e.g. covered in some old steel bucket, using a separate ceramic socket dangling from the wires).
And allow the ballast to take a power it needs for the warmup (it could be up to 90W for a 35W rated ballast), so use a strong enough supply for it, capable to deliver the power for at least a hour or so (time you need the lamp to burn on it, so it stabilizes into some working condition). A PC power supply with about 5A preload on the 5V line (so it will keep the regulation in check without triggering the protection; a car headlight halogen bulb will do the job). Another option is a large enough battery, e.g. a car starting one.
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Re: 70w Sylvania Metalarc problem « Reply #8 on: October 01, 2017, 04:08:35 PM » Author: Lodge
Medved, that's a pretty slick idea, if 23kV won't start the lamp not much will and those little ballasts are pretty cheap, I've even found them at the auto wreckers for under a dollar.. I'll have to try it sometime..
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Re: 70w Sylvania Metalarc problem « Reply #9 on: October 01, 2017, 07:45:38 PM » Author: sol
I use a Philips CDM-TC of 35W and a Philips CDM-Tm of 20W and sometimes, the ballast ignitor times out and the lamp doesn't strike. After the timeout, it usually strikes. I've also witnessed some probe start MH that take up to 2-3 minutes to strike. Others strike instantly. Not sure why, but at least they work.
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Re: 70w Sylvania Metalarc problem « Reply #10 on: October 01, 2017, 10:15:51 PM » Author: BlueHalide
Sylvania's 100w and 70w Metalarc lamps (E26 ED17 3000K) are not like their higher wattage counterparts, or any standard Na-Sc lamp for that matter, these 3000K lamps include a dose of Lithium to produce that slight pinkish color you may notice and bring down the color temperature. As youve noticed these lamps are also hard starters, especially for PSMH lamps. Ive worked with these in the field quite often and nearly every one ive installed requires at least a full minute of the ignitor buzzing away before it strikes up, future starting thereafter is always much faster once that lamp has run up all the way to full power. These are one of my favorite MH lamps because of the unique color, they look closer to 2700K but have that decidedly pink hue to them, also the orange sodium flashes during warmup are also super intense with these.
Also, just to add, nearly all of these go EOL violently, ive replaced literally dozens of ruptured lamps out in the field, both the 100w and 70w have this explosive tendency and is the reason, I assume, that sylvania only makes these 3000K metalarcs in protected (open rated) with the arctube shroud
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RyanF40T12
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Re: 70w Sylvania Metalarc problem « Reply #11 on: October 02, 2017, 12:09:12 AM » Author: RyanF40T12
Metalarcs are Metal halide lamps ryan..

and HPS does float my boat indoors lmao... my parents actually like it too.

Thanks.  I should have caught. 
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Re: 70w Sylvania Metalarc problem « Reply #12 on: October 02, 2017, 08:25:09 AM » Author: 589
I've used a Fulham workhorse ballast to get a old 175w merc running for Dieselnut that wouldn't strike. They must have a high ignition voltage because they'll also strike fully warmed up hps with no problem.
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