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Non-cycling HPS?

Non-cycling HPS?

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Ive noticed this phenomenon for awhile, a pattern in which lower wattage Philips brand HPS lamps (35w, 50w, 70w) are very unlikely to cycle at EOL, but rather go mercury-green. Today's relamping is another example, here you see a very-used Philips 35w lamp, notice no sodium leakage in the outer. This lamp runs up to a dim mercury-vapor color, with absolutely no sign of sodium in the spectrum at all, even during run-up. It doesn't cycle, just remains that dim green color (about 400-ish lumens if I were to guess).

20180124_225108.jpg 20180103_175827.jpg 20171226_233210.jpg 20171208_221013.jpg

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Filename:20171226_233210.jpg
Album name:BlueHalide / New album
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Date added:Dec 26, 2017
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Date Time:2017:12:26 23:32:10
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dor123
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Dec 27, 2017 at 12:25 AM Author: dor123
If the lamp stays at bluish mercury color and don't changes to a reddish color after than, or cycles, this is probably a non-cycling (unsaturated) HPS lamp. But I would expects than if this is Philips, that it would have a green dimple on it.
You can try to tell what is the name of this lamp. If it is Philips ALTO Non-cycling, GE Lucalox NC and so on.
Also, with non-cycling HPS lamps, the amount of the sodium-mercury amalgam visible is very small, since they are all vaporized during operation.
You can also check the lamp voltage. If it is the same or lower than a new HPS lamp of the same wattage, the lamp is non-cycling.

I"m don't speak English well, and rely on online translating to write in this site.
Please forgive me if my choice of my words looks like offensive, while that isn't my intention.

I only working with the European date format (dd.mm.yyyy).

I lives in Israel, which is a 230-240V, 50hz country.

Lightingguy1994
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Dec 27, 2017 at 01:03 AM Author: Lightingguy1994
There's a streetlight out in front of my place with a 150w sodium lamp thats been blue burning for years without cycling, i actually like it when sodium lamps do that instead of cycle and I hope my own HPS lamps will do the same one day since most of them are modern made by Symban
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Dec 27, 2017 at 02:02 AM Author: Danny
Ive got a GE Lucalox 70w SON T that runs up with no signs of sodium! But it cycles after a while!
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Dec 27, 2017 at 10:19 AM Author: BlueHalide
Dor123, this is indeed a Philips lamp, even though the etch is gone I removed identical lamps on this same job where the etch was still visible. I decided to put this lamp on a 150w ballast to see if any sodium becomes present, which it didn't, but the lamp did cycle on the 150w gear.
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Dec 27, 2017 at 04:39 PM Author: streetlight98
@ Dor: the newer Altos don't have the green dimple. They stopped doing that a few years ago. This one is just an elliptical lamp without the dimple so there is nothing to tint anyway. The newer GE Eco HPS lamps have a green ring around the dimple though. Unsure how long they've been doing that but I've noticed it on some of the more recent GE HPS lamps I've gotten.

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Dec 27, 2017 at 08:47 PM Author: nicksfans
Around here, Duke Energy uses non-cycling HPS lamps, and they do, in fact, sometimes get gradually more white before turning a mercury blue-green color. Sometimes they'll run like that for years before finally going out completely.

I like my lamps thick, my ballasts heavy, and my fixtures tough.

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Dec 27, 2017 at 09:34 PM Author: BlueHalide
@nicksfan, I too have seen HPS lamps at EOL produce an almost incandescent white color, then rapidly shift to the mercury blue/green. The lamp pictured above was used in an apartment complex in decorative post tops, as well as similar entryway fixtures, there is about 80 of them total, all 35w HPS, I was sent to spot-relamp only the "completely burned out" fixtures, however about a third of them were EOL just like the one pictured, none of them cycled. They either ran mercury green, or a very low pressure sodium state like SOX color.
dor123
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Dec 28, 2017 at 03:56 AM Author: dor123
Usually the mixture of sodium and mercury emission lines, gives a pinkish white color.

I"m don't speak English well, and rely on online translating to write in this site.
Please forgive me if my choice of my words looks like offensive, while that isn't my intention.

I only working with the European date format (dd.mm.yyyy).

I lives in Israel, which is a 230-240V, 50hz country.

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Dec 28, 2017 at 07:53 PM Author: arcblue
Very interesting. I've changed a number of low wattage Philips bulbs and they all cycled at EOL but I have seen some medium base HPS glowing steady mercury color even as early as the late 1980s. Not sure what causes this in a standard lamp but I'd love to have a lamp that does this so I can enjoy clear mercury color in an HPS display fixture.

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Dec 28, 2017 at 10:43 PM Author: BlueHalide
This is not that common, however it seems that whenever I remove an EOL HPS lamp thats running that mercury color, its almost always a Philips lamp. High wattage HPS lamps (250w and above) dont seem to do this, they just cycle as normal. Ide be willing to bet this has something to do with the lower wattage lamps using a simple reactor ballast, and the higher wattage lamps using standard CWA type gear. 250w and larger HPS ballasts are always CWA and can strike and run metal halide lamps without an issue. 150w and below HPS ballasts are too low voltage for metal halide to even strike up
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Dec 29, 2017 at 08:05 PM Author: streetlight98
They do make HX ballasts for 200-400W HPS lamps. They were common in more compact fixtures in the 80s but CWA HPS ballasts have gotten a lot smaller since then so I don't see them much. Westinghouse used HX ballasts a lot in their fixtures. Their "OV-400" (400W MV OV-15) used a LPF HX ballast and that's for 400W MV. Don't even want to think about how many amps one of those pulls being low power factor. I actually had an OV-400 ballast but the aluminum windings kept breaking on me since the ballast spent a long time near the coastline abandoned. Ended up junking it but it was a cool ballast. Obnoxiously loud though. And HX ballasts are very flickery. CWA and CWI ballasts aren't nearly as flickery with the capacitor smoothing things over with lamp voltage regulation.

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