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Weird dim blue color of dimmed out Sylvania F96T12/WXs (White Deluxe)

Weird dim blue color of dimmed out Sylvania F96T12/WXs (White Deluxe)

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This is in the rear of a supermarket where T-12s are still used, the main store is now T8. I've never seen fluorescents go blue when they are either mercury starved or have something wrong with the gas mixture. Sorry for the picture quality.

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Filename:image~429.jpg
Album name:silverliner / not so pleasant sights
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Keywords:Lamps
File Size:228 KB
Date added:Jul 28, 2014
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TheUniversalDave1
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Jul 28, 2014 at 08:41 PM Author: TheUniversalDave1
Oh boy, are Sylvania T12 lamps starting to mercury starve too???

"If people only knew how much I secretly hated them, they'd love me for holding it in." -Matt Groening

Silverliner
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Jul 28, 2014 at 10:17 PM Author: Silverliner
Yes sadly. I saw a Sylvania SuperSaver F96T12/CWX/SS at Lowes go dim. Manufacturers just don't care about "obsolete" technology anymore.

May all the great lighting technologies have their place in history.

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TheUniversalDave1
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Jul 28, 2014 at 10:21 PM Author: TheUniversalDave1
Oh GOODY.....

That reminds me! One of my many pairs of Sylvania F34/CWX lamps has recently begun giving me issues. I have them in a shoplight with a 2000 446/SLH ballast, and sometimes they will just glow dimly at the ends until I go over there and twist the tubes, then they strike after much flickering. The fixture is grounded.

"If people only knew how much I secretly hated them, they'd love me for holding it in." -Matt Groening

Alights
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Jul 28, 2014 at 10:28 PM Author: Alights
Sounds like the socket contacts are a bit oxidized,replacing the sockets or twisting the lamp many times will probably fix that problem
TheUniversalDave1
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Jul 28, 2014 at 10:48 PM Author: TheUniversalDave1
All the lamps in the room exhibit the same flickering wildly before startup behavior. These just sometimes don't want to start at all. The room stays around 67F.

"If people only knew how much I secretly hated them, they'd love me for holding it in." -Matt Groening

funkybulb
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Jul 28, 2014 at 11:43 PM Author: funkybulb
Man where the quilty of the lamp now days.
Id guess that look liking like every thing falling in GE hand

No LED gadgets, spins too slowly.  Gotta  love preheat and MV. let the lights keep my meter spinning.

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Jul 29, 2014 at 03:07 AM Author: DetroitTwoStroke
I wonder if the ballast could be bad, since I remember seeing slimlines that only light dimly with good lamps. The bluish glow is interesting, though!

Pride and quality workmanship should lie behind manufacturing, not greed.

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Jul 29, 2014 at 03:45 AM Author: dor123
Touch at the lamps, and feel if they are very hot compared to the rest lamp. If this is so, than the lamps aren't mercury starved, but air poisoned.

I"m don't speak English well, and rely on online translating to write in this site.
Please forgive me if my choice of my words looks like offensive, while that isn't my intention.

I only working with the European date format (dd.mm.yyyy).

I lives in Israel, which is a 230-240V, 50hz country.

don93s
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Jul 29, 2014 at 07:54 AM Author: don93s
I installed some newer Sylvania 60w super saver /CW at work and a couple went mercury starved and just have a dim striating glow. The lamp in series would still be full brightness.
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Jul 29, 2014 at 01:34 PM Author: Silverliner
I'm adding that in this dim and bluish pair, the ends are glowing a reddish purple color and the lamps are striating. There's also another fixture, out of view in this picture, that has one dim/blue lamp and another that was normal. One of the T12 fixtures was converted to F96T8 when the T12 ballast failed, but all the fixtures have electronic ballasts, T12 and T8.

May all the great lighting technologies have their place in history.

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Aug 13, 2014 at 07:09 PM Author: streetlight98
Hmm if they converted to all electronic ballasts then it would make sense to use T8 lamps. I never get why people to total-retrofits from magnetic to electronic and use new T12 electroic ballasts. Make your investment worh while by converting to T8... For spot replacements I can totally see using electronic T12 though. I wish there were more 8ft T8s though. 4ft T8s are too common lol. I'm starting to see a few LED installations pop up indoors though, mainly with those decorative indirect troffers.

Please check out my newly-updated website! McCann Lighting Company is where my street light collection is displayed in detail.

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Aug 13, 2014 at 11:53 PM Author: Powergroove
Regardless of tube diameter the technology of a fluorescent is the same. T5 & T8 were listed in the original GE fluorescent catalog. The only thing that has changed is better phosphers & electronic ballast which could be applied to any tube diameter. They still rate T12 on magnetic ballast running @ 60hz & rate T8, T5s on electronic ballast running @ 20KHZ to 100KHZ. Do the the comparisons on equal terms and T12 will not be "obsolete". The original engineers of fluorescent lamps were not idiots. T12 gave them better phospher life and were more efficient than smaller diameter tubes. Better phosphers has allowed t5 ho's to be developed. A pg8 ran on a t5 ballast would be brighter than the t5. Pg17 is brighter than t12 on the same ballast. More surface area = more light.

Keep government out of the lighting industry.

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Aug 14, 2014 at 08:53 AM Author: streetlight98
Well if that's the case then why is everyone going to smaller diameter tubes? Yes, preheat T5s and T8s were around, but the newer "electronic generation" T8s and T5s are different from their old "preheat generation" T5s and T8s. The stupid US governement is out to annihilate just about every light source besides LED so why not just go back to lighting places with carbon arcs and candles.

Please check out my newly-updated website! McCann Lighting Company is where my street light collection is displayed in detail.

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Aug 14, 2014 at 09:27 AM Author: Powergroove
How are they different? The difference is phosphers and ballast. Which can be applied to any diameter tube. Original t5 & t8 were preheat. New generation lamps can be ran off a choke that would provide correct current for cathode construction and gas fill.

Keep government out of the lighting industry.

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Aug 14, 2014 at 09:36 AM Author: Alights
People have gotten brainwashed into thinking T8 and T5 is somehow more efficient, but it makes sense not to upgrade these days to electronic T12 in mass installs because if lamps do get more expensive than they are a T8 or worse conversion is bound to occur
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Aug 14, 2014 at 10:32 AM Author: Powergroove
On a side note, electronic ballast have chokes in them. They can use much smaller ones at higher frequencies.

Keep government out of the lighting industry.

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Aug 14, 2014 at 10:57 AM Author: streetlight98
There are many more options for T8 though. Of course I like the old school preheat and rapid start T12s but it's because they're magnetic, not because they're T12. Manufacturers are done with T12s. Their focus is all on T5HO and T8. And with all the stupid CRI nonsense, there aren't very many bright T12s. The old CWP F40T12s put out some 3000 lumens. The current CWX crap puts out a mere 2000-2200 lumens.

It's not the lamps themselves, it's the phosphors, like you said. But manufacturers don't care about making T12s better. It's all about the smaller tubes now. They're the ones that will be getting the improvements and T12s will eventually become a thing of the past like T17s.

Please check out my newly-updated website! McCann Lighting Company is where my street light collection is displayed in detail.

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Aug 14, 2014 at 11:16 AM Author: Powergroove
I have powergrooves that I use every day. I have a 4 foot one that runs 24/7. I use what I like, not what government and greedy corparations tell me what's best for me. I have plenty of lamps to last me till I'm gone. Then hopefully someone else will keep them going. F48PG17 hasn't been manufactured in almost 20 years and can still be found if you look hard enough. T8 & T5 is touted as new technology by lamp manufactures so they charge more for something they have less raw material in. That's the drive behind the push for smaller tubes. It is cheaper to manufacture smaller diameter lamps and the manufactures charge more for "new" technology. Corporate greed and kick backs to government are the driving force behind smaller diameter lamps. If you manufactured lamps and ballast wouldn't it be in your best interest to replace every working ballast & lamp you could, even if its smoke and mirrors?

Keep government out of the lighting industry.

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Aug 14, 2014 at 12:55 PM Author: streetlight98
You have the option to use Powergrooves if you can afford them but most people can't... Same goes for T17s, the lamps were so expensive. And they're larger diameter tubes, not smaller. I totally get what you're saying about the corporate greed and all. It's sickening, really.

My point is that T12s are an obselete technology as far as improvements are concerned. Manufacturers will continue to improve T8s and T5HOs but the T12s will not see improvements. Eventually with all the CRI crap, the only T12s left on the market will be as pricey as T17s. Converting from magnetic to electronic ballasts makes no sense if you're going to use the same lamps. You'll save a few watts for sure but the ballasts die much faster than magnetic. If they wanted to keep using T12s they shouldv'e kept the old ballasts. If they're going to change all the ballasts, it only makes sense to change the lamp type to get something brighter.

T12s are a thing of the past. Not because they're inefficient, but because the government and lamp manufacturers "said so".

Please check out my newly-updated website! McCann Lighting Company is where my street light collection is displayed in detail.

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Aug 14, 2014 at 01:26 PM Author: funkybulb
This is why to save as many old Pre1995
Lamps as u can, Id bought a case of philip
Daylight tubes before the the 1995 banned
The last of the stocks, it made Philip DX tube
A joke as it dimmer than the the D lamp.

And 2 is these philip D lamp were identical
To westy lamps except the endcaps

No LED gadgets, spins too slowly.  Gotta  love preheat and MV. let the lights keep my meter spinning.

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Aug 14, 2014 at 01:44 PM Author: Silverliner
The main reason for the T12 diameter is because earlier phosphors cannot tolerate the high loading of T8 tubing, especially the 4' ones because they operate at 430mA. All the T8 lamps made in those days, such as the preheat ones and 100-300mA slimline ones, operate at relatively low currents up to 350mA. Also note these lamps never exceeded a rated life of 7500 hours, while T12 lamps were steadily improved to last 20,000 hours in a typical F40 lamp. They actually experimented with the 4' T8 lamps back in the 1930s so it wasn't a new concept! The modern rare earth phosphors have very low lumen depreciation and can handle high power loading, that's what allows long lasting T8 and T5 lamps to be commercialized, I recently got a fixture from a friend that uses F54T5/HO lamps and man its bright it hurts my eyes! Even then, I still like to see T12 lamps around, there are still some holdouts here in California. Last night i visited the T12 lit Wal-Mart and it is still T12, lighting the store nicely and some of the GE F96T12/C50s are developing cool end bands. The GEs are holding up well, very few have burned out so far. Some of the 59w T8s were changed back to T12, i think the T8s were operated on T12 ballasts.

Back to the T8 lamps, in Europe they use the F36T8 lamps on preheat ballasts, they are barely more than simply 4' versions of the F30T8 sold here. I have some and they are cool lamps.

Also, the modern T5 lamps, at least the standard output versions (not HO), are basically longer versions of the preheat T5s as they operate at a very similar current.

Still, regardless of diameter size, phosphor type etc, it's still the same underlying technology originally introduced in the 1930s.

May all the great lighting technologies have their place in history.

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Aug 14, 2014 at 02:04 PM Author: Powergroove
Thanks silverliner. No matter the diameter, it is the same principles behind every fluorescent lamp.

Keep government out of the lighting industry.

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