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HARD FACT: CFLs can start fires!

HARD FACT: CFLs can start fires!

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Not just a smoke out. Imagine your whole house literally on fire.

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Album name:silverliner / not so pleasant sights
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Keywords:Lamps
File Size:361 KB
Date added:Nov 08, 2016
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wattMaster
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Nov 08, 2016 at 05:38 PM Author: wattMaster
I wonder what made this happen, as it seems to be confined to one little spot.
Also, have you gotten the LED filament bulbs?

SLS! <click

Silverliner
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Verd a ray classic.


GoL
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Nov 08, 2016 at 06:22 PM Author: Silverliner
That's typical. That spot had some component that overheated and failed. Yes the LED filament bulbs arrived but I haven't looked at them yet. They are at a friends house, I'll go there tomorrow or so.

May all the great lighting technologies have their place in history.

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Flurofan96
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Nov 08, 2016 at 06:25 PM Author: Flurofan96
Why is this more common in the US?

I have NEVER have that happen to a CFL

I will give LEDisease a taste of my shoe

streetlight98
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Mike McCann


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Nov 08, 2016 at 06:47 PM Author: streetlight98
Hmm I wonder why this happens with CFLs (albeit infrequently) but not really with LEDs? Is it because the heat produced from the fluorescent tube itself is frying the electronics?

Please check out my newly-updated website! McCann Lighting Company is where my street light collection is displayed in detail.

Lightingguy1994
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Nov 08, 2016 at 10:03 PM Author: Lightingguy1994
I too have seen CFLs perform things they shouldn't over the years, Unfortunately LED is the way I have to go, especially with the cost of electricity here in Ontario, Canada these days thanks to Hydro One
dor123
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Nov 08, 2016 at 10:36 PM Author: dor123

Why is this more common in the US?

I have NEVER have that happen to a CFL

Because american CFLs uses voltage doubler topology to blow the electrodes at lamp EOL, which is prone to fire.

I"m don't speak English well, and rely on online translating to write in this site.
Please forgive me if my choice of my words looks like offensive, while that isn't my intention.

I only working with the European date format (dd.mm.yyyy).

I lives in Israel, which is a 230-240V, 50hz country.

Lightingguy1994
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Nov 08, 2016 at 11:47 PM Author: Lightingguy1994
What a terrible design that is
Lumex120
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105555521242365640724 UCM30tBQDUECOV6VeG5W87Vg zfarmadillo
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Nov 08, 2016 at 11:56 PM Author: Lumex120
What brand is this?

Any machine is a smoke machine if you operate it wrong enough.

Medved
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Nov 09, 2016 at 01:30 AM Author: Medved
Anything can start a fire, even if it has nothing to do with electricity or fire by itself (e.g. a piece of glass lying in the grass - when it happens to focus the sunlight on some dry piece). It is just matter of designing the thing correctly and take the risks seriously.
Here it looks like the doubler problem, combined with insufficient robustness of the plastic material (it looks like the plastic had burned for quite some time; that is not acceptable with any electronic).

No more selfballasted c***

ResR
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Martin Lelle resr1286
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Nov 09, 2016 at 05:03 AM Author: ResR
I have seen 230VAC cfl's with ballast chamber covered in soot from EOL failure, but no burn out like this.

http://www.lighting-gallery.net/gallery/index.php?cat=11837

rjluna2
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Robert


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Nov 09, 2016 at 06:10 AM Author: rjluna2
Wow

What brand this is?

Pretty, please no more Chinese failure.

xmaslightguy
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^homebuilt fixture


GoL ATL
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Mar 20, 2017 at 10:57 PM Author: xmaslightguy
So this could probably be solved with EOL protection and/or Thermal protection (which would ofcourse cost a few cents more to include, so they won't do it)

Colored Fluorescent's such as F40T12 Red or  Green or Blue are awesome...

dor123
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Mar 20, 2017 at 11:56 PM Author: dor123
CFLs that don't uses the doubler thopology prevent this. All the american CFLs that going up in flames, uses this crap thing to fuse the filament at EOL. My Osram Duluxstar 8W/827, don't have this doubler and took more than 20 mins to fuse the filament, without any overheating, smoke or fire.

I"m don't speak English well, and rely on online translating to write in this site.
Please forgive me if my choice of my words looks like offensive, while that isn't my intention.

I only working with the European date format (dd.mm.yyyy).

I lives in Israel, which is a 230-240V, 50hz country.

Lumex120
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May 29, 2017 at 07:55 PM Author: Lumex120
They could also make the bases out of ceramic. It would cost a bit more but it would be MUCH safer.

Any machine is a smoke machine if you operate it wrong enough.

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May 29, 2017 at 08:29 PM Author: FGS
They could but why? Too late now for inproving CFLs now that LEDs are slowly taking over the duty of low energy usage bulbs. Admittedly ceramic based CFLs sound interesting to see and collect.

Why I like LEDs on top of other lighting tech?
LEDs = Upgrade 95% of the applications. (That is if you avoid eBay's LEDs).


LED brainwash? No, people uses them cuz they work well for them.

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May 29, 2017 at 08:50 PM Author: Ash
Unless they correct the underlying problem, the same can happen with LEDs. To me it looks like what caught fire is the fuse resistor (using a resistor as fuse) or the PCB under it. The same design with the same flaws (using the wrong type of resistor, not sufficient clearance on the PCB) is present in many LEDs and many non lighting gadgets. Its just that CFLs tend to fail more often in a way that calls for blowing the fuse (and unless that happens, the flaws in the fuse part won't be discovered)
Lodge
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May 29, 2017 at 11:22 PM Author: Lodge
Actually most of the leds I've opened have actual fuses in them, and they are also filled with silicone potting compound which more then likely has some form of fire retardant in it so they should contain most issue while the fuse simply blows..
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May 29, 2017 at 11:59 PM Author: Ash
I seen everything from Glass fuse (but sometimes with bad PCB layout under it), PCB track fuse (susceptble to same problem if not done right), Resistor fuse (sometimes with suitable resistor type and sometimes not, and again the PCB layout), No fuse..

And its not only about LED lamps, also other stuff like USB chargers and all small line connected electronics
streetlight98
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Mike McCann


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May 30, 2017 at 07:34 AM Author: streetlight98
@ Lumex: GE had something called the "all glass" CFL that was made out of glass and looked like a giant A19 lamp. Some of those also had a halogen capsule that ran for about 30 seconds while the CFL tube warmed up to full brightness.

Please check out my newly-updated website! McCann Lighting Company is where my street light collection is displayed in detail.

Medved
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May 30, 2017 at 08:40 AM Author: Medved
The difference between CFLs and the LED's (or USB chargers) is what power levels the circuit should ever handle, even for short period of time (because that is the base of the power the circuit may be handling during load failure).
The LED's and USB chargers are electrically capable to drive practically nothing more than the normal rated power. So as a result, the thermal load even in case of failure can not be much higher than during normal operation.
But the fluorescent ballasts need to deliver close to the rated current into the lamp with a voltage drop many times the normal operating one for a proper startup. And this elevated power then becomes handled for way longer time when the lamp is failing (plus it shifts the operating mode into more adverse conditions), so it overheats the ballast. During normal start this condition is present as well, but only for very short time, so the thermal inertia can swallow that.
That means a 10W LED ballast or "USB" supply won't be able to deliver much more than about 12..15W, that means no more than 15W power becomes handled during the most adverse failure scenario. That is so close to the normal operation, than it means the operating mode most likely stays the same as well, so practically very limited extra thermal load of the components, so they withstand way longer without causing any extra risk.
Plus there is other difference between LED and fluorescents: The fluorescents tend to stay in the adverse condition for very long time before they fail for good, so leave the ballast exposed to that condition for a long time, so it is more likely to fail. The LED's tend to fail so the LED array either does not change its parameters in any significant manner (from ballasts perspective; e.g. when one of multiple parallel strings goes open circuit), or go to complete open or short circuit, which either means no excessive dissipation there. So again no extra risk of bad failure.
Plus even when considering a failure starting within the electronic, the fluorescents tend to get damaged in a way to cause the stress described above as well...

Otherwise of course, the failure modes caused and influenced only by the electronic (and not by the load response) are about the same...

No more selfballasted c***

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May 30, 2017 at 08:57 AM Author: Lumex120

Unless they correct the underlying problem, the same can happen with LEDs. To me it looks like what caught fire is the fuse resistor (using a resistor as fuse) or the PCB under it. The same design with the same flaws (using the wrong type of resistor, not sufficient clearance on the PCB) is present in many LEDs and many non lighting gadgets. Its just that CFLs tend to fail more often in a way that calls for blowing the fuse (and unless that happens, the flaws in the fuse part won't be discovered)

I saw a picture on the electricians subreddit of an LED (think it was a Cree) that completely burned up in a ceiling fan. I will see if I can find it.

Any machine is a smoke machine if you operate it wrong enough.

Ash
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May 31, 2017 at 01:32 AM Author: Ash
The failure i expect is in the electronics, where a not very hard short occurs. One thats sufficient to blow the fuse in the device but not to trip an upstream breaker

And then, its the fuse that we want to blow clean off

With the typical 10 Ohm thin film (not metal film) resistor it just catches fire

With the PCB track, and with otherwise okay fuses (Glass fuse, metal film resistor), the PCB layout is sometimes such that it chars or flashes over, and then just keeps conducting and arcing across the blown fuse
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