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bTicino Magic

bTicino Magic

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This Italian icon from the 70-80s is still manufactured and replaces the old Domino series in my house. This is the oxidal plate. There are four 2-way switches, one low voltage socket (for a butlers bell...) and one 10Amp earthed mains socket (Italian Standard)

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Filename:20180821_071948.jpg
Album name:Headgardener / New album
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Date added:Aug 21, 2018
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sox35
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Aug 21, 2018 at 12:28 PM Author: sox35
Is that mains socket shuttered..? If not it could be regarded as dangerous, especially as there is no switch (unless one of the switches on the plate controls it..?)

Ria in Aberdeen
It'll be all right in the end, and if it isn't all right, it isn't the end Smiley

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Aug 21, 2018 at 12:37 PM Author: Headgardener

Is that mains socket shuttered..? If not it could be regarded as dangerous, especially as there is no switch (unless one of the switches on the plate controls it..?)

Yes, there is a protection on the 2 outer holes on the mains socket. Switched sockets are most uncommon here except in the case of 400V 3P+N.
The UK-System is safer as it is polarized. We can encounter a lamp that is switched (single pole switch of course) off but with the mains phase on. This does not cast a good light on some safety regulations.
sox35
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Aug 21, 2018 at 12:42 PM Author: sox35
I like the system we use. Some people have argued that an unpolarised plug is better because it makes you assume either wire could be live and therefore you would take more care. That's a good thought, but the manufacturers of appliances generally only fit single pole switches (where they fit them at all) and you don't know when you plug it in whether the switch is going to end up in the live or neutral leg.

Then there are table lamps or floor lamps. If they use screw sockets, as most of them seem to do nowadays, even here in what was once bayonet cap land, you can't be sure whether the shell of the lamp is going to be live or not. A moment's carelessness when re-lamping (yes, I know you should unplug, but people don't, do they) and it's OWWW..!! at the very least

Ria in Aberdeen
It'll be all right in the end, and if it isn't all right, it isn't the end Smiley

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Aug 21, 2018 at 12:54 PM Author: Headgardener
To take care is a good advice. But nowadays you have to design everything to meet the demands of the most stupid. I am in a French DIY-Forum and the questions I read there are unbelievable. The sentence: "Stop the work immediately and consult a qualified electrician!" is recorded on an F-key...
I was interested in electricity since I was a little boy and with a mother that was real handy-woman in that matter, I spent many, many hours working in our houses. Mum is over 80 and age took its toll, thank God only in the electrical field.
sox35
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Aug 21, 2018 at 12:57 PM Author: sox35
Same here, I've been interested in electrical things since I can remember. When I was growing up, the guy who lived next door was an electrician and so I picked up a lot of useful tips and information from him. I even taught my grandmother to wire a plug when I was about ten..! I started collecting lights at about the same age, and still have a few of them from back then, although a lot did go missing in a house move when I was about 16

Ria in Aberdeen
It'll be all right in the end, and if it isn't all right, it isn't the end Smiley

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Robert


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Aug 21, 2018 at 03:09 PM Author: rjluna2
Is it on when you press at the top of the switch?

Pretty, please no more Chinese failure.

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Aug 22, 2018 at 12:08 AM Author: Headgardener

Is it on when you press at the top of the switch?

From my point of view it should be the other way round. Our cirquit brakers are ON with the lever up and OFF with the lever down. The translated expression "The residual current switch fell" equals to: we have blown a fuse. But that is actually a good point, when it comes to my kind of switch. There is no lever, just a plate and should one add a little lever onto that switch your suggestion would be correct: Pressing top = Lever up. That's tricky and I actually never thought about it so intensly before. By the way I am not that consistent in my decisions.
The position of the switch in the plate is left top your decision, you just click it in once connected to the wires. Even when you decide to follow a certain system concerning the ON and OFF position in your house you will give up when it comes to 2-way switch wirings or even trickier when they come with one or more 4-way switches in between. This could be the case in rooms with 3 or more doors or staircases. In this case I try to use push-to-make buttons with a relais (timers).
The position question is much easier to answer when it comes to rotary switches: Horizontal knob = OFF, vertical knob = ON (similar to valves). But remains the issue with the 2- and 4-way wired systems. Actually I gave up.
Alex
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Alex_lightning jurgenneandertal
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Aug 22, 2018 at 07:30 AM Author: Alex
Interesting, but the switches looks like a toy, they are really tiny. I also have one but only a single switch?
You know the power switches from BTicino with build in fuses? I really like those.

Lamp and Valve collector

sox35
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Aug 22, 2018 at 07:35 AM Author: sox35
Another thing occurs to me, what kind of isolation is there on the reverse of this between the low voltage socket and the mains socket/switches..? I don't think that a low voltage socket or switch would be permitted on the same plate as mains voltage items over here(although I'm sure a qualified electrician can confirm or deny).

I know when running power and data (Ethernet) cabling together in trunking, there has to be isolation between them.

Ria in Aberdeen
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Alex_lightning jurgenneandertal
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Aug 22, 2018 at 08:52 AM Author: Alex
In France it is not allowed to have low voltage systems in the same module with a high voltage component

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Aug 22, 2018 at 09:41 AM Author: sol
In North America, you can use low voltage and mains voltage in the same box with the same plate, provided the box can take a physical divider between the two voltage parts. The most common application for that is when rewiring is done in living room renovations (so domestic application) where there needs to be additional devices for a TV hookup (mains, ethernet, HDMI, etc). It requires less holes in the walls, and makes it somewhat easier. I've never seen it done in commercial applications.

In my home, they are all separate, with the low voltage ones not having a full box but only a frame to screw in the wall plate.
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Aug 22, 2018 at 10:14 AM Author: Headgardener
You are absolutely right with the different voltages/data issue. There are dividers available, but if you have ever tried to connect five elements with 3 wires each or even 4 wires you might loose your patience when a flimsy plastic divider is to be used. I have Ethernet/TV/Sat and other connectors in similar plates and I still have many dividers in my bTicino box in my basement. Same with the junction boxes.
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Aug 22, 2018 at 10:19 AM Author: sol
As far as I know here, the only boxes in which you can mix the voltages are the wall boxes at the end point. Junction boxes along the way (basement, etc) are only for one voltage. The only exception is the low voltage relay panels used typically for commercial lighting where you have a factory installed division inside with mains voltage on one side and 24V on the other.

I much prefer separate boxes. That way, you don't need to turn off the breaker if you want to work on the ethernet, for example. (Or you can leave the breaker on and run the risk of an accident, depending on what you're doing.)
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Aug 22, 2018 at 10:21 AM Author: Headgardener

Interesting, but the switches looks like a toy, they are really tiny. I also have one but only a single switch?
You know the power switches from BTicino with build in fuses? I really like those.

Do not underestimate the switches. They can handle 10A or even 16A (also as bipolar switch which I use for the air conditioning).
Concerning the fused switches I will post you something Special just to see if that is what you mean.
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Aug 22, 2018 at 10:22 AM Author: rjluna2

From my point of view it should be the other way round. Our cirquit brakers are ON with the lever up and OFF with the lever down. The translated expression "The residual current switch fell" equals to: we have blown a fuse. But that is actually a good point, when it comes to my kind of switch. There is no lever, just a plate and should one add a little lever onto that switch your suggestion would be correct: Pressing top = Lever up. That's tricky and I actually never thought about it so intensly before. By the way I am not that consistent in my decisions.
The position of the switch in the plate is left top your decision, you just click it in once connected to the wires. Even when you decide to follow a certain system concerning the ON and OFF position in your house you will give up when it comes to 2-way switch wirings or even trickier when they come with one or more 4-way switches in between. This could be the case in rooms with 3 or more doors or staircases. In this case I try to use push-to-make buttons with a relais (timers).
The position question is much easier to answer when it comes to rotary switches: Horizontal knob = OFF, vertical knob = ON (similar to valves). But remains the issue with the 2- and 4-way wired systems. Actually I gave up.

Danke, Headgardener

Our version has the switch lever/rocker on in up and pressed at the top side. We also have three way switch (two switches with one or more light fixture) which one may be down and other is up for off position. Either both up or down can be on position.

Pretty, please no more Chinese failure.

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