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HPS vs LED

HPS vs LED

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While the HPS is more evenly distributed, the LED is brighter and mimics a Type 5 lens

8F7C613C-C5EE-400C-A5F2-C531B7987DB6.jpeg 2DEA20EB-3679-4D4C-8040-C9EC9F93C343.jpeg 0AA569CC-4F46-410F-96AE-D46D571B377D.jpeg 87378435-29EA-4486-94E1-5B35588DE0DD.jpeg

Light Information

Light Information

Manufacturer:Cooper/Leotek
Model Reference:RMA/Green Cobra GCJ1
Lamp
Lamp Type:HPS/LED
Filament/Radiator Type:Ceramic/LED
Base:E39/None
Shape/Finish:ED28.5/Flat Panel
Service Life:24,000/100,000hrs
Fixture
Fixture Type:HPS/LED
Ballast Type:S54/Philips Advance LED Driver
Socket Type:E39/None
Photocell Type:DTL DP124-1.5-1704/DLL127-1.5 BK
Location:Eldorado, IL
Electrical
Wattage:150/39
Voltage:120.7
Optical
Color Temperature:2100K/3000K
Physical/Production
Fabrication Date:2001/2019

File information

File information

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Filename:2DEA20EB-3679-4D4C-8040-C9EC9F93C343.jpeg
Album name:M250R201SA / HID Street Lights
Keywords:Lanterns
File Size:197 KB
Date added:Apr 19, 2019
Dimensions:716 x 1066 pixels
Displayed:238 times
URL:https://www.lighting-gallery.net/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-158700
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merc
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Apr 20, 2019 at 01:26 AM Author: merc
The shadow cast by the attic roof in HPS case isn't present in the LED scene. That may help to reduce the light pollution.
On the other hand, the too bright and "full spectrum" LED doesn't actually help to reduce it.

Not a misoLEDist...

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Apr 20, 2019 at 04:57 AM Author: suzukir122
While that LED 100,000 hr claim is very much debatable, there's a high chance that previous HPS lamp outlasted that 24,000 hr claim
by a long shot.

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Apr 20, 2019 at 08:30 AM Author: Lightingguy1994
I think it would be annoying having that glarebomb shining into the window like that, however it is nice that it is warmwhite
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Apr 20, 2019 at 08:43 AM Author: lightinglover8902

I think it would be annoying having that glarebomb shining into the window like that, however it is nice that it is warmwhite


Yeah, that bothers me too. I bet the homeowner of that house is angry by that LED fixture shining to his bedroom window.

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Apr 20, 2019 at 09:18 AM Author: Lumex120

While that LED 100,000 hr claim is very much debatable, there's a high chance that previous HPS lamp outlasted that 24,000 hr claim
by a long shot.

Yeah I still highly doubt that most LED fixtures will last the rated 100,000 hour claim. That just seems way to high for me. I'm expecting most LED lights to last around 24,000-50,000 at the most.

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Apr 20, 2019 at 10:32 AM Author: Memorex_Telex
Why don’t they put refractors in LED luminaires?
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Apr 20, 2019 at 01:50 PM Author: Cole D.

Why don’t they put refractors in LED luminaires?


I think because of the nature of LEDs being very directional, flat lens works best with them. A refractor seems to produce a more dim light with them than it does HID or incandescent. There are some LED fixtures with a refractor but they tend to be the teardrop reproduction style fixtures.

Also, I can't see what kind of LED fixture is in the picture, but the HPS seems to light the roof more than the LED, is because it's in a NEMA head with a refractor. If they were using a full cutoff cobra head or a NEMA head with a bowl reflector it wouldn't do that.

Collect vintage incandescent and fluorescent fixtures. Also like HID lighting and streetlights.

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Apr 20, 2019 at 02:16 PM Author: suzukir122
@Lumex120, yep switch those numbers around (hps: 100,000 hrs. LED: 24,000 hrs) and then this might be believable... although 24,000 hrs
still seems a bit too high for this LED street light.

Also, that HPS might've still been warming up at the time that picture was taken.

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Apr 20, 2019 at 03:33 PM Author: streetlight98
Glad to see the NEMA go, they belong lighting yards, not roads. That said, the LED doesn't look any better as far as optics are concerned. Personally if I were to buy a house, I would be looking for a home with the master bedroom facing the backyard so I wouldn't be bothered by the glare. But even so, there's things called blackout drapes and they work great...

Something looks off with this picture. There's no way a 39w LED is that much brighter than 150W HPS. 70W LED is a more correct replacement for 150W HPS. 39W LED would be better suited as a 70-100W replacement IMO.

@ suzukir122: Agreed. 100 thousand hours seems a little stretched to me. I'm finding that new HPS lamps are actually not living up to their 24000HR rated life though. The ones around here are hit or miss (Sylvania). Some indeed make or pass the 24K hour mark while others fail months in or after only three years or so.

@ Memorex_Telex: No optics is one of the biggest things that makes LEDs more efficient than other light sources. The optics are built into the LED assemblies. A refractor scatters the light all over the place, which reduces glare but throws light where it is not needed. Well-designed high-efficiency LED street lights have a narrow beam that lights the road and only the road, so it takes less total lumens to light the road the same as an HID. If you throw a refractor on the light, you are scattering the light, taking it off the roadway and throwing it into yards, up into trees, etc. That's why manufactured LED fixtures are more efficient than retrofits. With a retrofit, you need an LED bulb that produces the same number of lumens as the lamp you are replacing because optics are not 100% efficient.

With a manufactured light, the optics are designed for LED and the fixture's lumens are measured as a complete unit (as opposed to HID lumens being measured as a naked lamp) so the 5000L LED fixture is going to produce 5000 lumens. And all 5000 lumens will be directed at the roadway. A 100W HPS lamp alone produces 9500 lumens. The optics are about 80% efficient when brand new, that drops the total down to 7600 lumens. And that light is not well controlled, so only about 2/3 of that 7600 lumens is actually being used to light the roadway, which works out to be 5016 lumens. This is why a 50W LED can replace a 100W HPS and light the road just as well, despite LED and HPS having very similar lumen-per-watt calculations. It takes less light to light the road because it is better controlled. That being said, the light above is definitely not a well designed light since the beams are being thrown everywhere.

Please check out my newly-updated website! McCann Lighting Company is where my street light collection is displayed in detail.

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Apr 20, 2019 at 04:44 PM Author: suzukir122
If there are HPS lamps burning out just months after installations (which I have yet to see) something is wrong.
Then again, even Sylvania seems to be more focused on LED's more so than HPS and other sources of lighting at their manufacturing facilities... so...
that might be why. But I still have yet to see an LED live up to their rated life claims. The street lights... I've already discovered a couple
of LED street light failures taking place here within less than a year. No flashy street light failures yet, but partial failures. (Individual diodes within the fixture, not lit.)

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Apr 20, 2019 at 05:45 PM Author: streetlight98
HID lamps are garbage now. The best HPS lamps out there are barely making 7 years (average 9 hours each night). A lot of 90s HPS lamps (I'm particularly referring to GE ones, as they were used here) lasted a good 10 years or more. But you'd be hard pressed to find an HID out there now that will last more than 7 years.

As far as LED street lights lasting their rated life, 100K hour life would take 30 years to use up burning the same 9HRs a night as the HPS, so obviously you aren't going to find one that's lived up to its rated life. LED street lights have only been on the market about 10 years or so. And they only really took off about 5 years ago. Overall I've seen that most LED installations here that were done early on are still working, but they have color shifted drastically to a very yellow color. I've seen this at a lot of gas stations. However, The LEDs at the Seven11 gas stations and Cumberland Farms gas stations (the latter is a local chain) have lasted very well these past 10 years with no color shift! Surely they're not going to last 30 years but even if they last 10 years they've paid for themselves in energy savings. The LEDs made now have come a long way from the things made a decade ago. Newer fixtures are *somewhat* better looking, better color, and better efficiencies. Time will tell how long they last. I'd rather keep HIDs but with the quality of HID lamps and fixtures tanking the way it is, I'm not sure how much longer I can stand by new HID products. I will stand by pre-2010 HID products forever though. Before LEDs clouded manufacturer's vision, HID was the leader in the market with efficiency and quality.

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Apr 20, 2019 at 07:48 PM Author: suzukir122
As of right now, the gas station LED's and the parking lot LED's have literally been the absolute worst in terms of reliability... at
least near where I live. Walmart LED parking lot fixtures (near where I work)... individual diode failures. Walmart inside store fixtures... numerous
fixtures glowing very dim, each in rows of 2's. Speedway canopy LED fixtures (near where I work)... numerous fixtures either not working, or flashing
at a steady rate. Circle K canopy and parking lot fixtures... literally all fixtures with every Circle K I've seen, have yellowed severely, including
the parking lot fixtures. Some flashing at a steady rate, but not nearly as bad as Speedway. Matt Castrucci Auto Mall fixtures... although not
all of their parking lot fixtures have been converted to LED's, the ones that have been converted literally have two fixtures flashing at a steady rate,
less than a year after installation.
Closed abandoned store right beside my apartment complex... night time floodlight LED's for security... all fixtures have dimmed out a little more
than a year ago. I could go on and on! From the looks of it though, the reliability of LED's still isn't quite matching
the reliability of *old school* HID's, HPS, or fluorescent... at all.

Interests
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2. Weighting/staying extremely athletic
3. Severe Thunderstorms of all kinds
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Apr 20, 2019 at 08:16 PM Author: streetlight98
Wow I'm surprised there are so many more LED failures in your area than there are here. I would think the Speedways here are using the same LEDs as the ones in your area but perhaps not. The speedways here all went in a few years ago, replacing HESS stations. Speedway had retrofitted the lights (not replaced) shortly after the takeover. So far I haven't noticed failures in my area. I've seen plenty of LEDs on regular commercial buildings fail. My assumption was they were too cheap to splurge on good quality fixtures. The LED street lights in my area have all held up great too, but the oldest ones are only from 2016 so they've got a long way to go.

I find more reliability issues with retrofit lamps like corn cob and LED T8 tubes. Seems like fixture retrofits (like an LED tray that replacing the reflector/refractor in an HID fixture) or a new fixture altogether tends to last better. Granted, the corn cob lamps and T8 LEDs are cheaper and easier to replace so the options have to be weighed for every application.

I'm with you, nothing beats the old school quality vintage lamps, especially mercury vapor. MH never really lasted long but back in the day if a MV lamps didn't last at LEAST 10 years dusk to dawn there was something wrong.

Please check out my newly-updated website! McCann Lighting Company is where my street light collection is displayed in detail.

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Apr 20, 2019 at 08:32 PM Author: wattMaster
All this talk of HID lamps not lasting more than 7 years is one reason why I'm trying to make them on my own, and maybe mass produce them if it works out. Also, you can't forget about the glare with the LED's optics. I often notice that when I'm at a 45 degree angle to them, the glare is the worst it ever is, but that doesn't really happen with HID.

SLS! <click

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Apr 20, 2019 at 09:14 PM Author: suzukir122
The Speedway gas station not far from where I work, with the HPS fixtures as their source of canopy/parking lot lighting, is still there.
I plan on making a video of them soon if that doesn't change. Not gonna say those lights are going on strong though. They're not... some canopy
fixtures are either cycling or completely dead. The parking lot ones are still working strong though. In that particular city, HPS still seems
dominant, and most of those HPS seems to be going on strong... but I know for a fact that most of those fixtures have way more than 100,000 hrs
of usage to them.
Anyways, the Speedway gas station literally walking distance from my apartment complex... they changed over to LED almost 2 years ago (I think)
and those fixtures seem to be holding up pretty well. Meijer gas station just across the street... same thing. (Although literally all the canopy
side HO fluorescent fixtures are EOL, other than the Meijer canopy signs, which are also still HO fluorescent fixtures.) No, not every LED is bad,
but I definitely can't stand it when LED's replace quality vintage fixtures and lamps.

@Wattmaster, good luck man. Quality HID's, HPS, and fluorescent fixtures will outlast LED's... so if you manage to create them on your own
somehow, that'd definitely be awesome!

Interests
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2. Weighting/staying extremely athletic
3. Severe Thunderstorms of all kinds
4. Food and drinks. So gimme them bbq ribs
Yep
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Apr 20, 2019 at 09:23 PM Author: streetlight98
Eww HPS gas station canopy light? Never ever seen that around here. Seems like all the gas stations here went right from mercury vapor to metal halide (and then to LED). All the major gas station chains here have just about converted all their stations over to LED but some mom & pop service stations are still MH and some I think might even be MV still, unless they're just very worn greened out MH lamps.

Please check out my newly-updated website! McCann Lighting Company is where my street light collection is displayed in detail.

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Apr 20, 2019 at 10:18 PM Author: suzukir122
@Streetlight98, yup, HPS gas station canopy lights and parking lot lights. Still up and running lol... I agree... eww... although we're
talking vintage lighting here, this is definitely not a place HPS should be at. Maybe it was a work of a lighting enthusiast back in the
day or something, long ago...?
I'm not sure... but here's a photo of it: https://www.lighting-gallery.net/gallery/displayimage.php?album=lastcom&cat=10658&pos=101&pid=136024

*Edit*... @Streetlight98, you probably remember that photo anyways... you were the first to comment!!

Interests
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2. Weighting/staying extremely athletic
3. Severe Thunderstorms of all kinds
4. Food and drinks. So gimme them bbq ribs
Yep
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Apr 21, 2019 at 08:29 AM Author: streetlight98
Oh wow I do remember that now. Had forgotten lol.

Please check out my newly-updated website! McCann Lighting Company is where my street light collection is displayed in detail.

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Apr 21, 2019 at 09:28 AM Author: Binarix128
I will be honest, the LED fixture is more brighter .

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Apr 21, 2019 at 01:13 PM Author: suzukir122
@Binarix128, then again, that HPS may have still been warming up

Interests
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2. Weighting/staying extremely athletic
3. Severe Thunderstorms of all kinds
4. Food and drinks. So gimme them bbq ribs
Yep
Lighting has been a passion of mine since I was born. I consider everyone on LG to be a friend

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Apr 21, 2019 at 05:57 PM Author: joseph_125
Interesting that they seemed to used a lower colour temperature LED instead of the standard 4000-5000k LED.

I remember seeing gas stations that had HPS canopy lights in the late 90s - early 2000s but I think MH and PSMH killed them off. I think I saw some older stations with MV too. LED has killed off most of the MH lights though.

I've seem pictures of 60s gas stations here with continous fluorescents under the canopy. I think those long got replaced with MV and later MH.
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Apr 21, 2019 at 06:37 PM Author: Lumex120
The only place I have been seeing new HID installations is ballfield metal halide floodlights. And even now they are starting to use LED lights.

Any machine is a smoke machine if you operate it wrong enough.

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Apr 21, 2019 at 07:50 PM Author: suzukir122
I've got a 60fps 4k Action Cam.
I really need to shoot a video of the HPS gas station on one of my bikes when I get a chance, before they replace everything with LED.
The outside of the gas station is literally still in the late 90's, besides the "Speedway TV," stations, of course. Again, horrible lighting
choice for a gas station, but still vintage/very rare.
But yeah... so far the longest lasting LED's I've seen have been at the United Dairy Farm gas stations (installed in 2013, but yellowed badly)
Circle K (also yellowed) and the Speedway and Meijer gas stations near me. That's about it regarding where I live. But then again, they may
have done maintenance/upgrades on them as the years passed, so who knows.

Interests
1. Motorcycles, Women, and Lighting (especially fluorescent)
2. Weighting/staying extremely athletic
3. Severe Thunderstorms of all kinds
4. Food and drinks. So gimme them bbq ribs
Yep
Lighting has been a passion of mine since I was born. I consider everyone on LG to be a friend

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Apr 21, 2019 at 08:35 PM Author: streetlight98
The Leotek LED lights RIDOT installed in 2016 are already showing a noticeable shift to yellow! Only after 2.5 years! C'mon! I don't think there have been many flat-out failures though. Most outages are probably due to the stupid nodes acting up or wiring faults. RIDOT is notorious for wiring faults in their lights. Newer installations are better though, since they spec copper. I'm thinking they used to spec aluminum until sometime in the 80s though since their early 80s and prior installations are full of faults.

Please check out my newly-updated website! McCann Lighting Company is where my street light collection is displayed in detail.

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Apr 22, 2019 at 08:47 AM Author: M250R201SA
The HPS light was full bright when I took the photo. The Leoteks that Ameren has been installing are holding up quite well, but as was previously mentioned, they’ve only been using them since late 2017. Still, all the “first” installations have been working very well with no color shift yet. The LED fixture is a Leotek GCJ for reference.

"I know a thing or two about a thing or two...  I sure do."

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Apr 22, 2019 at 04:35 PM Author: HomeBrewLamps
I'd shoot the LED with a BB gun. and every time they replaced it I'd do it again.

Too bright. Too White. Even if the HPS was a NEMA it still woulda been better.

I've seen LED's that were pleasant to be under but I don't want them right next to the house with their horrible blue light.

~Owen

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Apr 22, 2019 at 06:08 PM Author: lightinglover8902

I'd shoot the LED with a BB gun. and every time they replaced it I'd do it again.




Even better, shoot up a rocket at it, and blows up!

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Apr 22, 2019 at 06:18 PM Author: fluorescent lover 40



Even better, shoot up a rocket at it, and blows up!



I mean which would you shoot, a LED light or an AE Durastar?

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Apr 22, 2019 at 06:21 PM Author: lightinglover8902

I mean which would you shoot, a LED light or an AE Durastar?


The LED fixture, which they're ugly as heck.

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Apr 22, 2019 at 07:23 PM Author: streetlight98
The durastar lights are way uglier. And they're plastic!

Please check out my newly-updated website! McCann Lighting Company is where my street light collection is displayed in detail.

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Apr 22, 2019 at 07:53 PM Author: M250R201SA
I happen to like the 3000k Leotek GCJs. I mean, I have to be honest, HPS is my least favorite HID. I hate the fact that they replaced most all of the Mercury lights that bathed the streets in a warm glow. The LEDs here remind me of a brand new DLX Coated Mercury lamp. The GCJ is also fairly pleasing to the eye as far as how it looks, and I've seen some UGLY ass fixtures, such as the Durastar, and even the GCL is pretty ugly. Look at Cooper's LED, and AEL's LED fixtures. I mean, WTAF!!? I don't even like the GE DEvolve Cobras. The GCJ is my favorite, as it packs a nice little punch, and has a very small footprint.

"I know a thing or two about a thing or two...  I sure do."

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Apr 22, 2019 at 08:21 PM Author: lightinglover8902

The durastar lights are way uglier. And they're plastic!


Yeah well. I don't like the Cooper Verdeon. Its a ugly shovel like fixture IMO. But since they're some in my area, I just have to deal with it anyway...

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Apr 22, 2019 at 08:27 PM Author: M250R201SA
Also, I want to add that the GE 201SAs manufactured after 2011 seem to be crapping out a lot, and the EYE Sunlux lamps are JUNK!!! They last an average of 5-6 years at BEST! They also have a lot of ignition problems. So am I glad to see the HPS go, and the LED come, you bet I am!

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Apr 22, 2019 at 08:33 PM Author: M250R201SA

Yeah well. I don't like the Cooper Verdeon. Its a ugly shovel like fixture IMO. But since they're some in my area, I just have to deal with it anyway...

I hate the Archeons! They look like they were cheap retrofits of an HID fixture. And WTF!! Look at the Caretaker! I mean, Leotek adds some pleasing lines in their LEDs, but does everyone else just not GAFF anymore?

"I know a thing or two about a thing or two...  I sure do."

lightinglover8902
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Yes. Power distributor:CenterPoint Energy.120V60Hz


GoL UCP_yo1gHzReqS19MjJMXUKg
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Apr 22, 2019 at 08:39 PM Author: lightinglover8902

I hate the Archeons! They look like they were cheap retrofits of an HID fixture. And WTF!! Look at the Caretaker! I mean, Leotek adds some pleasing lines in their LEDs, but does everyone else just not GAFF anymore?


IDK. I think the Cooper Navion to me, looks like a metal candy bar! Plus one of their LED squares crap out, just like the Cooper Galleon.

fluorescent lover 40
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Lights are awesome! :)


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Apr 22, 2019 at 11:10 PM Author: fluorescent lover 40
The city near me has had quite a few failures with the Navions. They always completely fail, though. The Cooper Verdeons there are holding up. Approaching 2 years of service and only one failure! Those stupid smart photocells they put on them suck though. Sure, they turn the light off early, but they turn on the light REALLY early at dusk.

Power provider: Southern California Edison (SCE)

-Date decoder of some US lamps 1960-present.
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-I'll save any vintage lamp! Smiley

lightinglover8902
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Yes. Power distributor:CenterPoint Energy.120V60Hz


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Apr 23, 2019 at 05:17 AM Author: lightinglover8902

The city near me has had quite a few failures with the Navions. They always completely fail, though.


This also same goes with the Cooper Galleon, because they used the same LED squares and part of them crap out.

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