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My AWESOME BetaLED fixture!!!

My AWESOME BetaLED fixture!!!

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It's groovin'!!! And it's a response for Kev, who apparently HATES LEDs so passionately and he has the right to his opinions.....but I have the right to love them though!!!

Feel free to have a debate!

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nicksfans
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Jul 21, 2015 at 07:55 PM Author: nicksfans
Here are my personal views on LEDs.

In short, they are a great light source if made well and used in a well-engineered design. However, this is what bothers me about certain LEDs:

- Poor light quality (think cheap LED retrofit tubes)
- Lack of standardization and serviceability with LED luminaires
- Exaggerated lifespan/brightness specs by some manufacturers
- Lamp/Luminaire designs that cause excessive glare and/or fail to dissipate enough heat
- LED luminaires replacing vintage stuff (I understand it's progress, but it still makes me sad to see the old stuff going away)

And here is what I like about LEDs:

- Great light quality (if properly designed)
- Excellent versatility and controllability
- Long lifespan (if properly designed)
- Energy efficiency (OK, not all LEDs are more efficient than traditional technologies, but they're still very good)

Yes, they have their flaws, but I firmly believe that they can and will replace traditional technologies in the majority of applications over the next couple of decades. Look how far fluorescent lamps have come since their introduction. The earliest examples typically lasted around 2500 hours, if that. We have T8s now that will last 80,000 and are much brighter than the early lamps. I think we will see a similar trend with LEDs as the technology advances.

I have heard claims here that LEDs look really bright, but throw little useful light on the ground. I politely disagree. The downstairs half-bath in my house is lit with two 4-watt LED filament lamps (actual power consumption 3 watts each) and they quite readily replace the two 40-watt incandescents that were there before. The fixture now uses 15% of the power it did before, and the lamps are barely distinguishable from clear incandescents. I also have four Feit R30 LEDs in the kitchen recessed cans, and I actually PREFER them to 65w incandescents. They have a CRI of 93.

Don't get me wrong, though, I still love magnetic T12 fluorescents, mercury vapor lighting, and all the other old stuff. Just because I love vintage lighting doesn't mean I can't appreciate a good LED.

That said, nice BetaLED, TudorWhiz.

I like my lamps thick, my ballasts heavy, and my fixtures tough.

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Jul 21, 2015 at 09:15 PM Author: Solanaceae
I agree with what you say nick. I have seen the retrofit corn cob LEDS last three years so far with nightly use in front of my school. I also use the feit LEDS and they are nice and bright and have no reported failures. I still don't like LEDS used for street light, some of themare too cheaply made to withstand the weather. I wish to buy those filament LEDS to use in my fan to see how they last. Part of the reason that LEDS get a bad rap is that a lot of led posts are about the failure of LEDS rather than the bright side (no pun intended).

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Jul 21, 2015 at 09:36 PM Author: nicksfans
I'm surprised that corn cob LEDs have withstood three years of nightly use. They are not what I would consider "good" LEDs. Same goes for most LED tubes and those LED floodlights you can get on eBay. I have seen more than one video describing failures and quality control issues with the latter.

As far as the filament LEDs go, I've found that eBay has the best prices on them. Unfortunately, you usually have to wait 3-4 weeks for them to come from China. Amazon has them too if you don't feel like waiting so long. Particularly with eBay, make sure you get lamps that will work on 120v, as many of them are 220-240v. As far as quality goes, mine are from Amazon but my dad has some eBay ones and those don't seem any worse. A couple of the ones he has came marked on the box as 220v, but the eBay listing said 85-265v and sure enough, they work fine on 120.

I like my lamps thick, my ballasts heavy, and my fixtures tough.

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Jul 21, 2015 at 10:36 PM Author: Solanaceae
I've seen that the cob lights have a bad rating here. On a lighter note (hehe) at least the one I mentioned works.

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Jul 22, 2015 at 03:35 AM Author: streetlight98
I agree with you 100% Nick. It's not the technology, it's the false advertising and poor manufacturing that plagues LEDs. I put a 15W LED in my grandma's kitchen (75W=) to replace a 100W incandescent and the kitchen is still decently lit. The light is very peachy like a CFL but much better color rendering and the light doesn't appear "foggy". That's 85W savings. I did this mainly because the cloth wires above the light were getting crispy but the added benefit of saving all that energy is great too. And hopefully the lamp will last "forever". It's a Philips with the yellow panels.

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Jul 22, 2015 at 11:10 AM Author: Kev
If you like it so much why not stick it where the sun never shines???

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Jul 22, 2015 at 02:56 PM Author: streetlight98
Why is everyone so fired up about this? It's JUST a light source! It's not the end of the world... This is being taken way to seriously like sports and videogames.

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Jul 22, 2015 at 03:06 PM Author: TudorWhiz

For pictures of my streetlight collection and other streetlight pictures with some various pictures that are not in this website, please visit http://www.galleryoflights.org/  under GullWhiz

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Jul 22, 2015 at 03:07 PM Author: TudorWhiz
I'm just neutral....I am sad MV is going away but glad to see HPS is going away thats about it

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Jul 22, 2015 at 03:13 PM Author: FGS
The HPS lights in front of my house doesn't light the road well and they're 2013~ lights. Can't wait for those crappy HPS lights to be gone and a better light source takes their places.

LEDs has replaced HPS in many places including down the road from my house. And they look good.

Why I like LEDs on top of other lighting tech?
LEDs = Upgrade 95% of the applications. (That is if you avoid eBay's LEDs).


LED brainwash? No, people uses them cuz they work well for them.

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Jul 22, 2015 at 03:17 PM Author: streetlight98
I've never seen my street lit by MV. The HPS does the job but it's horrible to see under. Try taking a walk at night and the neighborhood looks dark. Of course, most of the lights are 50W HPS, which is way too dim for public lighting IMO. The one in front of my house is 100W HPS, which is bright enough, but the spacing is too great between fixtures so the road is poorly lit. With LEDs that would make it worse though since the beams are more concentrated so the distance between poles is magnified.

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Jul 22, 2015 at 03:29 PM Author: FGS


I like eating white rice than popcorn. (Couldn't find a yellow smilie eating rice so that redhead was the best animated gif I found.) This should get interesting.

Why I like LEDs on top of other lighting tech?
LEDs = Upgrade 95% of the applications. (That is if you avoid eBay's LEDs).


LED brainwash? No, people uses them cuz they work well for them.

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Jul 22, 2015 at 03:44 PM Author: Solanaceae
@streetlight98: 😂😂. Our neighborhood mercs are slowly replaced by HPS as the ballasts fail. I know an ENTIRE street (3-4 blocks long) lit completely by 175w mv NEMA buckets. I have warmed up to HPS (hid joke) now. My opinion has changed over LEDS. Nick Is right about the false advertisement and crappy Chinese quality of eBay stuff. I thought LEDS were complete crap mainly because they were sort of talked down to on this site. I have some feit-utilitech (somewhat cheap) stuff lighting my house including CFLs, LEDs, and incandescent bulbs. They have lasted their rated life and then some. I don't know about the LEDS, but they have withstood 8 months of frequent switching and constant use. The feit CFLs are pretty good and especially preform well in the cold. The incandescent spot lights are good, as I have had some last for 8 years in the finished basement.

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Jul 22, 2015 at 03:48 PM Author: Kev
@streetlight98 is that comment directed at me? If so look at the discription my panties are hardly twisted! As long as my jobs are a LED free zone I couldn't give a toss what you guys are in 2 each to their own!?

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Jul 22, 2015 at 03:52 PM Author: FGS
I don't completely hate HPS in general. I've seen down lighters with them lighting a perimeter around a building and it looked good! I imagined that same place with MVs or LEDs. Wouldn't look good IMO.

@Kevin - LEDs will come to your work someday. Inevitable but what ya can do about it. Quit your job? That's a pretty stupid thing to do over a light source type IMO. And BTW that comment sounds like it's aimed at you.

Why I like LEDs on top of other lighting tech?
LEDs = Upgrade 95% of the applications. (That is if you avoid eBay's LEDs).


LED brainwash? No, people uses them cuz they work well for them.

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Jul 22, 2015 at 04:00 PM Author: Liam
LED this LED that You Muppet's haven't got good taste in lighting if that's all you can brag about!

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Jul 22, 2015 at 04:01 PM Author: Kev
I like my job and I would never quit it LED or no LED I don't feel that strongly about it I am just concerned it will leave me short on maintenance in the future. What I can do about it is exactly what I am doing, keep fitting older technology as long as its available and my customers are happy with it and keep maintaining the old stuff repair it rather than replace it when a lamp fails or something minor!

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Jul 22, 2015 at 04:18 PM Author: FGS
Oh, we have good taste in lighting. We include LEDs when we figure how to light a place. My future house will have all type of light sources in active use. (Excluding collection since that's gonna have all types anyway.)

Most of our recent comments and pics are mostly to balance out the LEDphobic posts and pics that seem to have infested this great site. To a newbie it sounds like LEDs are the most crappiest and evilest things ever invented. And that should be avoided and feared at all costs. I don't buy that BS. I've seen good quality LED lamps and fixtures.

Why I like LEDs on top of other lighting tech?
LEDs = Upgrade 95% of the applications. (That is if you avoid eBay's LEDs).


LED brainwash? No, people uses them cuz they work well for them.

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Jul 22, 2015 at 04:25 PM Author: Kev
Lol I agree with the last bit of your post!

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Jul 22, 2015 at 04:26 PM Author: Liam
Well you got (LED's are the most crappiest and evilest things ever invented) bit right.

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Jul 22, 2015 at 04:29 PM Author: Kev
Where did you get this from tudorwhiz still a well expensive lantern!

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Jul 22, 2015 at 04:32 PM Author: FGS
You two are seriously LEDphobic to believe they're all bad. LOL!

Why I like LEDs on top of other lighting tech?
LEDs = Upgrade 95% of the applications. (That is if you avoid eBay's LEDs).


LED brainwash? No, people uses them cuz they work well for them.

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Jul 22, 2015 at 04:34 PM Author: Kev
FSG you keep putting words in my mouth! Saying I will quit my job if I have to install LED and saying I think they are all bad! Not true!!!!

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Jul 22, 2015 at 04:36 PM Author: FGS
It's what I'm reading from the comments. And indicator and other low powered LEDs doesn't count. Neither do flashlights.

Why I like LEDs on top of other lighting tech?
LEDs = Upgrade 95% of the applications. (That is if you avoid eBay's LEDs).


LED brainwash? No, people uses them cuz they work well for them.

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Jul 22, 2015 at 04:38 PM Author: TudorWhiz
Where did I get that LED lantern? Where do you think? I can say one thing, it was a trade, and I was one of the most respected guy in this site.....some members here can confirm that...


anyways......I am more of MV guy anyway.......and LED seem to have the closest color of a MV reminding me of old days.....

For pictures of my streetlight collection and other streetlight pictures with some various pictures that are not in this website, please visit http://www.galleryoflights.org/  under GullWhiz

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Jul 22, 2015 at 04:41 PM Author: Liam
Well for some one that supposed to know about lighting you should know its called a lamp not a bulb, (lamps glow bulbs grow) and i have my reasons to hate LED. They have there place and its not in street lanterns or to replace fluorescent tubes.

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Jul 22, 2015 at 04:46 PM Author: Kev
Nop the philips master LED 7W Gu10 are fantastic as are the halers H2 down lighters, I also really like the Sylvania 5.5W filiment led lamps they have a realistic life stamped on them of 6000 hrs and are a true match for 60W incandescent.

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Jul 22, 2015 at 04:49 PM Author: FGS
From what I see around here. They're doing well in streetlights (the park) and led tubes (Ace).

There's a reason why we like LEDs. If they're crappy and have crappy color we'd hate them.

Why I like LEDs on top of other lighting tech?
LEDs = Upgrade 95% of the applications. (That is if you avoid eBay's LEDs).


LED brainwash? No, people uses them cuz they work well for them.

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Jul 22, 2015 at 04:52 PM Author: Solanaceae
Boy that escalated quickly.

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Jul 22, 2015 at 04:55 PM Author: Kev
There are some bright LED tubes out there now but the Led's are driven hard meaning lifespan is reduced I would not install led tubes to replace fluoreacent.
I don't install stuff because it looks nice I always go on how servicable the thing will be in the future and reliability and how practical.

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Jul 22, 2015 at 06:23 PM Author: FGS
At least with led tubes and lamps you can replace as normally you'd do with older tech. Go LEDs and keep old fixtures.

I know of a place that has LED E-12 flame lamps. From far away they looks like halogen. They showed themselves only when it was dimmed. They kept the 3200k color just went dim. I was like "wow! LEDs are in those fixtures too?!?!? Cool!"

Why I like LEDs on top of other lighting tech?
LEDs = Upgrade 95% of the applications. (That is if you avoid eBay's LEDs).


LED brainwash? No, people uses them cuz they work well for them.

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Jul 23, 2015 at 01:40 AM Author: Danny
i just think there's no need to try to single out and wind kev up over this.
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Jul 23, 2015 at 02:22 AM Author: Silverliner
Those BetaLEDs color shift over time. Los Angeles has thousands of these on the residential streets (and some on the main roads). All of them started out at 4000K, looking exactly like 4100K fluorescent or metal halide. Now they are a greenish yellow color, similar to /C mercury lamps! Failure rate is low, spot replacements are few and far between. But they are definitely dimmer now than when they were first installed. Los Angeles no longer installs these fixtures, they use mostly Leotek Ecobras now.

May all the great lighting technologies have their place in history.

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Jul 23, 2015 at 02:30 AM Author: Kev
Doesn't surprise me. I'm not wound up dan I just think it's funny how people that don't work in the trade seem to think they know better than me.

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Jul 27, 2015 at 02:21 PM Author: FGS
Not singling Kevin (Despite his comment on my LED park pic saying he hopes the LEDs go bang or someone shoots them out. Doesn't bother one bit but it makes one suspicious.) out but all the LEDphobic and LED haters guys in here. He just happened to be more vocal on this than most.

As for the trade. Do any maintenance guys get ACTUALLY called back to an upgrade work area just to see how well the lights are doing? I mean, why would I call someone just to come over and look how well my lights are doing and waste money doing so? I only call someone from maintenance company to FIX broken or upgrade my lights not to admire them and see how well they are doing.

Now that I think about it, I'm not sure I want to get into the trade, only to remove working classic lights whenever someone wants them gone for LEDs (or worse HPS) or fix broken lights when they go bad. I might not have time or I'm too tired to check out a LED upgrade I did to see how they're doing for free on my own time. Don't want to be thinking of work after I punched out for the day.

Not doing maintenance means I'll make time to check out a store's LED upgrade once in a while and see how they are doing since it's fun/relaxing and not related to my work. Tired or not, I'm checking them out. AND I'll note of any dead LEDs I find. (After I do an estimate of how many lamps/fixtures are in the store.)

@Dave - At least LA has tried them and found them not handling the Kalifornia summer heat (worse if some dayburns.) How are the Leotek Ecocobras doing?


Meanwhile I wait for the other guys comments...

Why I like LEDs on top of other lighting tech?
LEDs = Upgrade 95% of the applications. (That is if you avoid eBay's LEDs).


LED brainwash? No, people uses them cuz they work well for them.

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Jul 30, 2016 at 04:30 PM Author: Lumex120
Beginning around February 2015, the utilities here have been changing over from HPS to LED.

There is a row of 12 streetlights near my house lighting a highway. 8 LEDs and 4 HPS, which were dayburning until recently. Not to long ago the temps hit 110 F, and soon the LED lights failed, only 2 still working and the other ones either half-out or out completely. (they were CREE xsp lights). Of course the HPS lights were unaffected. The utility fixed the dayburning and replaced the failed lights 2 days later, and unfortunately I did not get a picture. Goes to show that LED is not good for areas that get hot.

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Jul 30, 2016 at 07:07 PM Author: xmaslightguy
When I was young my neighborhood (and basically everything else) was lit with MV
The changeover to HPS in my neighborhood (and most surrounding areas) also happened when I was still young...I never liked the orange color back then.
There's still some places lit with MV here (mostly neighborhood areas)..and I still prefer the look of it, though there's nothing wrong with HPS & the 100w HPS lights in my neighborhood are plenty bright.. sure they're spaced apart, which makes for dark-ish spaces inbetween, but it is a neighborhood not a highway, it doesn't need to be lit up like daylight LOL

Recently, I'm starting to see allot of HPS changed out to LED on highways & larger side-streets. I guess I'm witnessing the 'next generation' of streetlights honestly don't see them going through the neighborhoods like what happened with HPS (or atleast not anytime soon).

Colored Fluorescent's such as F40T12 Red or  Green or Blue are awesome...

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Jul 31, 2016 at 02:04 AM Author: Kev
@zarlog glad to hear they have failed just like thousands of them near me!

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Jul 31, 2016 at 02:21 AM Author: AngryHorse
I suppose LED are like any other lighting that has ever been made?, its still in its infancy yet, I do think drivers are `over engineered`, (if you saw some of the set up in UK LED lanterns), you would agree!
I also think LED lanterns should be more open, than enclosed in heavy aluminium housed lanterns, with `ineffective` heat fins!

Although, once LED filament technology is perfected, I reckon we will see a return to the more traditional, `Lamp and Lantern` arrangement for street lighting.

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Jul 31, 2016 at 10:31 AM Author: streetlight98
@ AngryHorse: Cast aluminum is a great heatsink, so if anything, the housings should be thicker and larger for more adequate heatsinking.

To resist is to piss in the wind, anyone who does will end up smelling.

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Aug 01, 2016 at 02:04 PM Author: AngryHorse
But then they spoil it by coating them in paint, would just bare and polished aluminium work better?, I wonder how effective it is on warm summer nights?

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May 24, 2018 at 07:20 PM Author: d3anio97
I personally don't draw issue with the technology. I draw issue with excessive levels of marketing bullshit, not cooling the arrays correctly causing them to fail prematurely and cutting corners on the control gear. it's all too common to see an LED street light either cycle or be totally dead due to PSU or LED array failure. IMO manufacturers need to stop making things as cheaply as possible with LED and focus on MAKING A QUALITY PIECE OF EQUIPMENT THAT IS ACTUALLY GOD DAMN CAPABLE OF LASTING THE RATED 20,000 OR SO HOURS!!! If they can't do that we should just change to coated 175w mercs as they have 24,000 hour rated lifespans. granted they're not as efficient BUT THEY ARE WAY LOWER MAINTENANCE!

What if I told you you could save 100% of your street lighting budget? Don't believe me? Buy an LED street light and run it for a week. the results will leave you in awe. (Aaaaaaand maybe wondering why you swapped that 70w SON)

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May 24, 2018 at 07:31 PM Author: HomeBrewLamps
I don't care for white light sources at night in general merc's are fine they are not really intense (atleast the wattages I'm used to which is 175W and 250W)... so is HPS. both LED and MH lamps I would not like having blare through my window. and I'd much prefer to be able to have my curtains open at night!! And I'd like to walk around at night without my night vision being absolutely pulverized.... I've experienced this with both sources....

~Owen

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May 24, 2018 at 07:40 PM Author: streetlight98
Three years later someone wakes the beast once again.

To resist is to piss in the wind, anyone who does will end up smelling.

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May 24, 2018 at 07:58 PM Author: HomeBrewLamps

Three years later someone wakes the beast once again.

~Owen

Mercury Vapor LampHigh Pressure Sodium Scavenger, Urban Explorer, Lighting Enthusiast and Creator of homebrewlamps Cool High Pressure SodiumMercury Vapor Lamp

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May 24, 2018 at 08:19 PM Author: xmaslightguy
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IMO manufacturers need to stop making things as cheaply as possible with LED and focus on MAKING A QUALITY PIECE OF EQUIPMENT
This is really my feelings too.

Colored Fluorescent's such as F40T12 Red or  Green or Blue are awesome...

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May 25, 2018 at 05:04 AM Author: d3anio97

I don't care for white light sources at night in general merc's are fine they are not really intense (atleast the wattages I'm used to which is 175W and 250W)... so is HPS. both LED and MH lamps I would not like having blare through my window. and I'd much prefer to be able to have my curtains open at night!! And I'd like to walk around at night without my night vision being absolutely pulverized.... I've experienced this with both sources....

I'm fine with MH so long as it has the appropriate control louvers on the optics. It's when the engineer installing the fixture is lazy and doesn't install said louvers where my issues with MH fixtures arise. With LED it's the same thing. If the light isn't controlled properly then it becomes REALLY annoying!!

What if I told you you could save 100% of your street lighting budget? Don't believe me? Buy an LED street light and run it for a week. the results will leave you in awe. (Aaaaaaand maybe wondering why you swapped that 70w SON)

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Nov 10, 2018 at 08:57 PM Author: lightinglover8902
For me, I kinda like LED, but for my purposes, I ONLY use it for domestic use. Because if you use it in commercial use its gonna be crap, because:

1. Failures

2. Strobing, and flashing when failed, which is annoying, and distracting.

3. Not any better, than fluorescent, HID, or halogen and incandescent.

4. UGLY looking!

and 5. Talk about the glare they put out.

And that is my opinion about LEDs.

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