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LED panel with yellowed panel at Falafel Orion

LED panel with yellowed panel at Falafel Orion

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These panels were installed not so long ago, and most of them degraded (The panel material, not the LEDs). One of them even yellowed:

IMG_8361.JPG IMG_8358.JPG IMG_8356.JPG IMG_8354.JPG

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Filename:IMG_8356.JPG
Album name:dor123 / LED lighting (Except road lanterns), LEDs in general, lasers, flashlights and other lighting gadgets
Keywords:Lanterns
File Size:565 KB
Date added:Apr 19, 2019
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Date Time:2019:04:17 18:32:36
DateTime Original:2019:04:17 18:32:36
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Lightingguy1994
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Apr 19, 2019 at 02:33 PM Author: Lightingguy1994
LED panels are a joke. Could have used incandescent recessed fixtures with a screw in LED lamp.
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Apr 19, 2019 at 04:25 PM Author: streetlight98
When we wire new houses we still install incandescent cans and just use a BR30 LED in the can. Over the shower I still use a BR30 LED with a fresnel trim but all the other guys use an A19 incandescent lamp. 580 lumen 60w. What a joke. Boss doesnt want us to use the br30 lamps with the fresnel trim because they cost more than the incandescent lamps. For the extra dollar you get way more usable light and better color imo. For a short time we were using integrated led trims for shower lights, probably because they were on sale. Back to fresnel trims now. I love fresnel trims. I'd put them throughout the house if it were my house lol.

Please check out my newly-updated website! McCann Lighting Company is where my street light collection is displayed in detail.

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Apr 19, 2019 at 04:40 PM Author: Lightingguy1994
I'm glad to hear that! I would like to have the incandescent recessed cans in my house and don't want to have to hunt down used ones like i have been doing for fluorescent lights. It gets expensive and stressful at times
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Apr 19, 2019 at 09:59 PM Author: dor123

LED panels are a joke. Could have used incandescent recessed fixtures with a screw in LED lamp.

They had 2 PL-D recessed cans before. Incandescent cans are long time not in use here.

I"m don't speak English well, and rely on online translating to write in this site.
Please forgive me if my choice of my words looks like offensive, while that isn't my intention.

I only working with the European date format (dd.mm.yyyy).

I lives in Israel, which is a 230-240V, 50hz country.

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Apr 20, 2019 at 10:35 AM Author: streetlight98
Incandescent cans have not been used in commercial applications for a long time here. Before LEDs electronic PL fluorescent or magnetic PL fluorescent were used. Hid cans were too but dont seem to have been very common in my area. Perhaps more so before I was born, since my the 2000s many hid cans were probably being replaced with electronic PL cans.

Please check out my newly-updated website! McCann Lighting Company is where my street light collection is displayed in detail.

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Apr 20, 2019 at 02:19 PM Author: joseph_125
Yeah I think even in the 90s they were already installing a lot of PL cans for commercial uses. The earlier ones were magnetically ballast and ran off chokes or autotransformer ballasts depending on wattage.

HID cans were common here for installations with higher ceilings until recently, I think I last saw a new install in 2015. Most of the remaining ones I see are 70-50w PSMH with some 100-175w MV ones still hanging on in some older places.

Most newer installs seem to either use purpose made LED cans or a LED trim in an incandescent housing. I've only seen screw in LED in retrofitted HID or incandescent cans.
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Apr 20, 2019 at 03:10 PM Author: Ash
Incandescent cans have been in use here continuously right up to the LED panel invasion

Before the PL can time (up to and to some extent during 80s), merely as cans. They were made by local manufacturers

During the PL can time (90s and 00s), for high focus and dimmable applications, usually with reflector lamps or high end optics (much higher performing than the PL optics). Normally in auditoriums and such. Most were made by European manufacturers like Raak

Near the end of the PL can time (early 10s), as an alternative for PL cans, to cut down costs (CFLs cost significantly less than magnetic ballasts), or to satisfy incompetent "sparks" who only know how to wire L, N and are confused by lanerns with gear. basically the same can as PL, with E27 sockets labeled for use with CFLs (allthough they can handle Incandescents alright). They were made by Chinese manufacturers
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Apr 20, 2019 at 03:17 PM Author: Lightingguy1994
Ive seen incandescent cans with magnetic preheat PL adaptors screwed in. I bet it looked awesome at start up
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Apr 20, 2019 at 05:26 PM Author: streetlight98
@ Ash: Around here line voltage cans with standard medium base sockets are typically not used in new-construction commercial buildings because it wouldn't qualify for any "green incentive" rebates from the government, as the LED lamp can be unscrewed and an incandescent lamp installed. We installed some standard Halo brand residential grade recessed cans in a condo the company I work for wired. They had medium base sockets and the LED trims came with an adapter that screws into the socket and then plugs into the integrated LED trim. In order for them to get their foolish rebate, we had to cut the medium base sockets out of the cans and cut the medium base screw-in end off the adapter plug that came with the trims and crimp the trim adapter/wiring harness to the can's leads so that no one could screw an incandescent lamp in. Pretty ridiculous, but to get the rebate you have to install LED fixtures. Fixtures with medium base or mogul base sockets wired to mains are considered "incandescent" fixtures and don't qualify for rebates here. By cutting the socket off, we essentially created a fixture that could now only accept integrated LED trims so we satisfied the requirements for them to get their rebate. Of course, I'm sure my boss slapped them with a nice change-order bill for the extra work we had to so, so their rebate check probably went right to my boss!

@ Lightingguy: The church I had my boy scout meetings at as a kid had screw-in PL adapters in a small lobby area. They were big too, maybe a 26 or 28W model? They looked about as bright as a 100W incandescent. They were higher than the rest of the cans in the hallway, which were incandescent when I first started going there and then changed to spiral CFLs (23W) in the mid-late 2000s. The church still uses CFLs in the incandescent fixtures. They have F40/RS wraps in the classrooms as well and HID exterior lighting (two low watt PSMH wallpacks, a 400W MH flood, a ~250 or ~400W PSMH flood, a 400W MV GE flood from the 70s that I think is converted to MH (or they at least stuck a MH lamp in it last time it was relamped), and a 100W MV wallpack that runs VERY dim. Thinking of talking to the pastor and seeing if she will let me do some charitable lighting maintenance there. Get the HIDs going and maybe swap those magnetic PLs out for some LED BR30 lamps I have.

Please check out my newly-updated website! McCann Lighting Company is where my street light collection is displayed in detail.

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Apr 20, 2019 at 07:55 PM Author: joseph_125
@Mike, well that seems kinda ridiculous and wasteful imo. I've seen some generally older LED trims that essentially have the male medium socket integrated to the housing so I guess those rebates effectively prevent you from using those. I only have one MR16 recessed light installed and when I retrofitted that to LED I used just replaced the lamp with a LED instead of changing the trim. I wonder if the older LED striplights I've seen in used that are basically fluorescent strips with LED tubes fitted also won't qualify for the rebate.

I have memories of seeing older incandescent cans with adapters and PL13 lamps back in the late 90s. I don't see them as much anymore since I guess most places either replaced their cans with factory PL cans or switched to using integral CFLs or LED lamps.

Over here HID cans came out in the 1970s as an energy saving measure to incandescent cans, PL in the 90s and both were really common for commerical until LED took off. The HID cans from the 70s-90s were generally MV. The ones installed after the 90s were usually MH/PSMH. Seems there also was a brief time in the 80s and 90s here when they occasionally installed indoor HPS cans.
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Apr 20, 2019 at 08:04 PM Author: Lightingguy1994
I don't even want to get into a rant about those rebates. They try that stunt on me, I will order new sockets and return the lights back to incandescent. They can F themselves on that one. Or I just wouldn't go for the crappy rebate. Besides. Going with the incandescent cans may cost a bit more with no rebate but at least I can go to lowes and get a box of A19 all glass LED and expect a rebate to knock a little of the price. Plus those are still cheaper than LED trims. Id save further money down the road as I wouldn't have to spend more money on another electrician to come and change the EOL trim LED for me if I wasn't capable myself.
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Apr 20, 2019 at 08:32 PM Author: streetlight98
Keep in mind this is not a private residence. I don't particularly agree with their decision to make us mutilate the lights. For one, it voids the warranty of both the cans and the trims, since we had to modify them from their original form. I'm pretty sure it also voids the UL listing if permission is not granted in the instructions but not positive. If it does indeed void the UL listing, it's illegal to do because the NEC requires all electrical devices and fixtures to be "listed". Not specifically a UL listing, but either UL, CSA, or ETL. All are seen as equivalent in the eyes of the NEC.

Rhode Island was planning to pass requirements that all lighting in new-construction buildings (other than residential) contain LED fixtures that are not capable of taking other types of lamps. The whole idea is they want everything to be LED. I don't agree with that. I think the free market should decide. They have no right to regulate things like that IMO. I'm not sure if they officially passed that bill but I haven't seen any non-LED lights installed in new commercial buildings any time recently here.

Please check out my newly-updated website! McCann Lighting Company is where my street light collection is displayed in detail.

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Apr 20, 2019 at 08:36 PM Author: Lightingguy1994
Yeah that'll be the day when they tell people what to have in their own homes. But I'm sure they will eventually require new homes to have the same LED only fixtures. And if they really feel like big brother they could require home inspectors to fail the house if it has 'outdated' lights....

Although Canada doesn't seem to be that picky yet with lighting regulations, Im sure we will follow what the USA does eventually in part at least. For now non LED fixtures and lamps are still available here for the most part, even those 3 way incandescent lamps and the high wattages ones too but the selection and variety is starting to wane
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Apr 20, 2019 at 08:51 PM Author: streetlight98
The bill only cover OTHER THAN residential construction and only applied to new buildings. I don't think they will ever force homeowners to remove lights that are no LED because most home owners already use LEDs. In a house, lighting is roughly 10% of the electric usage anyway, so it's insignificant. Most residential lights are still incandescent compatible unless you buy a higher-end ceiling fan or a cheapo LED flush mount light. Lighting is the first thing homeowners conserve (by shutting them off when they're not needed) because it's electricity that they can "see". In a commercial building however, the lights are often on all day (and sometimes 24/7) so the lights is sometimes the largest load in the building, so you can see why they would want to address that. They don't care about homes though. You could shut the power off to every home in america and I don't think it would really make a huge impact in savings. Most of the electricity used in the grid is by commercial and industrial buildings.

Please check out my newly-updated website! McCann Lighting Company is where my street light collection is displayed in detail.

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Apr 20, 2019 at 08:54 PM Author: Lightingguy1994
I missed that, sorry. I'd explain why but dont think im allowed
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Apr 20, 2019 at 08:59 PM Author: streetlight98
Eh. My comments are always way too long anyway lol.

Not allowed? Some censorship going on here?

Please check out my newly-updated website! McCann Lighting Company is where my street light collection is displayed in detail.

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Apr 20, 2019 at 09:08 PM Author: streetlight98
Ah gotcha.

Please check out my newly-updated website! McCann Lighting Company is where my street light collection is displayed in detail.

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Apr 21, 2019 at 11:46 AM Author: Cole D.
I don't remember the last time I saw a commercial building with incandescent cans in use. The main buildings at my college were built in 1994 and had lots of PL cans. Also the McDonald's was built in 94 and had quite a few of them.

My Gold's Gym also has a lot of PL cans.

I can remember the old Publix here before it got rebuilt, had some old what I presume were incandescent recessed lights outside. Old Publix stores usually had a tile mural on each side of the entrance and I presume that's what these recesseds were supposed to illuminate. But I never saw them on and I kind of assumed they were abandoned in place. They were left there even after the outside of the shopping center and the inside of the Publix had been remodeled.

The Sears store here has the larger fresnel lens recessed cans at the outside entrances and also the entrance from the mall to the store. Early 2000s build. Most of them are using MH lamps but I think a few outside ones were incorrectly re-lamped to HPS.

I myself actually do like the LED trims that can either be installed to a recessed can or mounted directly to a ceiling box. They are a great alternative if you don't want a surface mounted fixture but don't want to go to the hassle of installing a can housing. I bought one with the intention of changing out the closet light, but due to the nature of the flat lens found they didn't illuminate as well as a regular surface mount.

Collect vintage incandescent and fluorescent fixtures. Also like HID lighting and streetlights.

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