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Cosmo White

Cosmo White

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2x 60W Philips CPO-T lamps, but different arc tube construction.

mav_400w.jpg st_50_twin2.jpg cosmo.jpg black_light.jpg

Light Information

Light Information

Manufacturer:Philips
Model Reference:CPO-T
Fixture
Ballast Type:Electronic
Electrical
Wattage:60W
Physical/Production
Factory Location:Belgium

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Album name:tuopeek / High Pressure Lamps
Keywords:Lamps
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Date added:Jun 19, 2012
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Date Time:2012:06:19 19:57:12
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dor123
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Jun 19, 2012 at 01:30 PM Author: dor123
The arctube design of the upper lamp is better, because it ensure that the arctube temperature is more uniform.

I"m don't speak English well, and rely on online translating to write in this site.
Please forgive me if my choice of my words looks like offensive, while that isn't my intention.

I only working with the European date format (dd.mm.yyyy).

I lives in Israel, which is a 230-240V, 50hz country.

monkeyface
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Jun 19, 2012 at 01:59 PM Author: monkeyface
Yes that's true. Philips also introduced a couple of month ago a Cool white Cosmo lamp.
Further again there is now a 30W Comso available and next year new Range is going to be introduced with downrated wattage like CPO-TW xT 120W instead of 140W!

That all about I've senn at the Light& Building fair this year!
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Jun 19, 2012 at 05:19 PM Author: Kev
I believe there is now a 220 and 350W Cosmo or around those wattages! They have changed most of their ceramic arc tubes to the top type now, This includes CDM ranges!

Cosmo 30W and 120W deep joy more fail. I wonder if the 30W Cosmo will run on 30W Fluorescent choke and ignitor!?

Voted to leave the EU and proud! 👉🏻🇪🇺🇬🇧

Globe Collector
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Aug 19, 2012 at 02:36 AM Author: Globe Collector
How can one get some samples of these! Particularly the older arc tube design!

Manufactured articles should be made to be used, not made to be sold!

Fee, Fye, Fow, Fum, A dead man's eye and a parrot's BUM!

tuopeek
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tuopeek 111967450636623837217 tuopeek1 77334065@N05/
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Aug 19, 2012 at 02:58 AM Author: tuopeek
I got both of these on eBay
Trianero2012
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Sep 05, 2012 at 02:17 AM Author: Trianero2012
I am jealous of this lamps Because are different each and do you can compare it. It is rare occassion
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Sep 05, 2012 at 12:10 PM Author: tuopeek
Thanks. Unlike your collection these two lamps are both really quite new and should still be obtainable without too much difficulty.
dor123
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Sep 05, 2012 at 12:21 PM Author: dor123
Having a xenon starting gas instead of argon, its starting voltage is higher than other MH lamps, so I doubt these lamps can be operated on a regular magnetic ballast + ignitor.
Trianero2012 and GC: Which halides are inside the cosmo MH lamps? (I know of cerium and sodium).

I"m don't speak English well, and rely on online translating to write in this site.
Please forgive me if my choice of my words looks like offensive, while that isn't my intention.

I only working with the European date format (dd.mm.yyyy).

I lives in Israel, which is a 230-240V, 50hz country.

douro20
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Sep 05, 2012 at 03:47 PM Author: douro20
I like the single-piece lamps; they can be run at higher temperatures than the three- or five-piece lamps, but they are much harder to make.
Trianero2012
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Sep 06, 2012 at 01:53 AM Author: Trianero2012
I don´t have this lamp in collection, therefore I am not able make a spectral analyse. But I think cerium don´t contains
BG101
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Sep 06, 2012 at 10:54 AM Author: BG101
I wish they hadn't used a custom cap, makes the lanterns and lamps incompatible with everything else .. meaning you don't have a choice of which lamp to use.

Unlike my experimental lash-ups where I can connect a ballast and lamp of my choice to use where I want. I currently have an 18W SOX lighting the stairs and landing on the middle floor. Am tempted to build an adaptor allowing use of a SOX cap-up in my uplighter


BG

Say NO to DICTATORSHIP in the form of bulb/tube/ballast bans !!

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Feb 08, 2019 at 05:48 PM Author: Globe Collector
I don't have any of these yet either, so like Stan, (Trianero2012) I havn't done any spectral analysis either. Max or James would probably know though.

All I have is the CPO-TG 65, the High Pressure Sodium Version.

Manufactured articles should be made to be used, not made to be sold!

Fee, Fye, Fow, Fum, A dead man's eye and a parrot's BUM!

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Feb 08, 2019 at 10:24 PM Author: Max.
The fill chemistry of those warm-white CPOs consists of a mix of thallium, sodium, cerium, and calcium iodides. Since the start gas is argon, and not xenon, these lamps can start and run on standard choke+ignitor ballasts, but their service life will be shorter than when used on their dedicated electronic control gear.



All I have is the CPO-TG 65, the High Pressure Sodium Version.

That's quite impressive given that those lamps were never released on the market!
dor123
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Feb 09, 2019 at 12:20 AM Author: dor123
If these CPOs have calcium, why they have low CRI and low red compared to other CMH lamps?

I"m don't speak English well, and rely on online translating to write in this site.
Please forgive me if my choice of my words looks like offensive, while that isn't my intention.

I only working with the European date format (dd.mm.yyyy).

I lives in Israel, which is a 230-240V, 50hz country.

Max.
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Feb 09, 2019 at 12:26 AM Author: Max.
Because sodium's spectral emission is not as broad (the mercury pressure is much lower than in standard CMH lamps) and cerium's green emission is particularly strong in the overall optical output of the lamp. Philips designed its CosmoWhite lamps for maximum efficacy at the expense of color quality, which is not a problem here given their exclusive use in street lighting.
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Feb 09, 2019 at 12:47 AM Author: Globe Collector
This is the first time I have heard of an Alkali-Earth metal being used in an MH lamp. Logical though considering Calcium's spectrum.

Manufactured articles should be made to be used, not made to be sold!

Fee, Fye, Fow, Fum, A dead man's eye and a parrot's BUM!

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Feb 09, 2019 at 12:54 AM Author: Max.
The use of calcium iodide in MH lamps is not really new though... this salt was first investigated during the 1970s, and patents on Ca-containing salt mixtures were filed during the 1980s. It is only with the advent of second-generation CMH lamps that this salt began to be used on a wide scale. I am not entirely sure but I think that during the 1990s North-American Philips may have produced a neutral-white low-wattage QMH lamp filled with a CaI2 additive (I have to check that in my literature).
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Feb 09, 2019 at 01:15 AM Author: Globe Collector
How long has Cerium been used?

Did any first generation lamps use it?

I get the feeling that this metal is only of quite recent use. I understand that Osram have used Dysprosium, Thulium and Holmium for quite some time, particularly in HMI type lamps for Film Set use.

One mystery I have never been able to get to the bottom of is how Gilbert Reiling initially used NaI, then later possibly TlI and InI3, but these were never popular in the United States, only Philps seemd to use this tri-salt mix from the '60s up into the 90's.

I have never understood why G.E., (where Gilbert Reiling Worked) never commercialized the tri-salt mix in North America. And then, (I think it was someone at Sylvania) developed the ScI3/NaI mix that became so common in North American MH lamps including G.E.s ...which means that G.E. must have had to purchase the rights to use Sc Na from Sylvania.

I am very interested to try and piece together the history of metal halide lamp chrmistry.

Manufactured articles should be made to be used, not made to be sold!

Fee, Fye, Fow, Fum, A dead man's eye and a parrot's BUM!

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Feb 09, 2019 at 02:18 AM Author: Max.

How long has Cerium been used?

Since the mid-2000s with the advent of the first 2nd-gen. CMH lamps.



Did any first generation lamps use it?

No, all first-gen CMH lamps employed a dysprosium-based fill chemistry. The reason for cerium coming only later was the need to solve some corrosion issues with the PCA material of the burner.



I get the feeling that this metal is only of quite recent use. I understand that Osram have used Dysprosium, Thulium and Holmium for quite some time, particularly in HMI type lamps for Film Set use.

Yes, although cerium iodide was first investigated as an additive to MH lamps in the 1970s, its use began only recently (see comment above). As for Osram, this company introduced its famous Dy-Ho-Tm-based salt mix in 1971 for its extended range of HQI lamps only. This particular mixture was not employed in HMI lamps because of the very aggressive nature of thulium which proved quite problematic in the highly loaded burner of these lamps. As a result, the additive(s) used in HMI lamps are typically dysprosium only, dysprosium-holmium, or dysprosium-holmium-gadolinium. It is only much later (late 1980s) that the Dy-Ho-Tm salt mix began to be used in short-arc MH lamps (i.e., the Philips MHD 1800W) when their chemistry began to be better controlled with the use of both iodides and bromides.



One mystery I have never been able to get to the bottom of is how Gilbert Reiling initially used NaI, then later possibly TlI and InI3, but these were never popular in the United States, only Philips seemed to use this tri-salt mix from the '60s up into the 90's.

If you read Gilbert Reiling's 1964 paper on his original work on MH lamps, you'll see that he basically filled mercury burners with whatever salts he could find. Out of those, NaI, TlI and InI attracted his attention and where used later in practical lamps simply because of the favorable properties of those salts.

Now, the reason why the first practical MH lamps he made were filled with NaI and TlI only is because in the early days of the technology mercury was still an important source of light and the salts were added only to correct the emitted light color. It is only later in the 1960s that it was realized that better performances could be achieved by relegating mercury to the only role of buffer with a limited optical output. At this point indium iodide was introduced to replace mercury in the production of blue light.

Finally, the reason why Na-Tl-In lamps were never popular in the USA is simply because Sylvania's Na-Sc lamp platform was (at the time) much superior. Philips adopted the tri-band fill chemistry (and still uses it to this day in its HPI lamps!) simply because this permitted the design of more stable lamps that were better suited for the series choke ballasts used in Europe (completely different control gear that the transformer ballast used in North America!).



I have never understood why G.E., (where Gilbert Reiling Worked) never commercialized the tri-salt mix in North America. And then, (I think it was someone at Sylvania) developed the ScI3/NaI mix that became so common in North American MH lamps including G.E.s ...which means that G.E. must have had to purchase the rights to use Sc Na from Sylvania.

First of all, all Multi-Vapor lamps produced by GE from 1964 to 1972 were filled with a mixture of sodium, thallium, and indium iodides. It is only in 1972 that GE abandoned this fill chemistry and adopted Sylvania's Na-Sc mix. Why did they not improve their lamp instead? most certainly because this was the cheapest option for them and maybe because GE's engineers did not push the envelope like Philips did with its HPI lamps. Besides, GE and Sylvania cross-licensed some lamp technologies at the time so the MH technology was certainly part of the deal.

As for the variety of MH lamp designs developed in the USA during the 1960s, the reason for that is simply that the three main lamp manufacturers (GE, Sylvania and Westinghouse) were in a race to create a standard MH lamps with the best overall characteristics while owning as much of the technology as possible. GE, being the first, focused on the "easier" additives (NaI, TlI, and InI3 are some of the least chemically active salts), Westinghouse went for maximum light color quality so they focused on the thallium-dysprosium mix, and Sylvania targeted the highest output possible so they focused on sodium and scandium. It turned out that the latter solution was the best for North America (i.e. given their transformer ballast) and since Sylvania owned the patents, GE and Westinghouse had no choice but adopt Sylvania's technology if they wanted to stay relevant in the MH lamp market.
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Feb 09, 2019 at 02:38 AM Author: Globe Collector
Thanks Max that has cleared up a lot of doubts that I have had. I did not realize GE used tri-salt up until 1972. My very first metal halide lamp was a GE with NaSc fill that I acquired in 1976.

I would be very interested to acquire an early GE Tri Salt example if possible. I did not realize Westinghouse used Dy, Tl at all. Did they use CsI to decrease the arc impedance as did Osram or were they forced to use a different approach due to Osram's patents?

Can you direct me to any literature in this regard?

The only really decent lamp monographs I own are F.G. Spreadbruy, (1940's), Funke and Oranjie, (1950's) and Henderson and Marsden, (1970's).

The only Dy,Tl, Cs non-Osram lamps I own are made by Gulf Advanced Lighting in Dubai.

I have one Tungsram HGMI 250, but it is very badly damaged.

Manufactured articles should be made to be used, not made to be sold!

Fee, Fye, Fow, Fum, A dead man's eye and a parrot's BUM!

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Feb 09, 2019 at 01:19 PM Author: Max.

Can you direct me to any literature in this regard?

The only readily accessible documents on historical MH lamp tech out there are patents (you can get/download them from the USPTO or from the European Patent Office website). Below is a short list of the most significant ones (in my opinion) related to our discussion above:

GE - US3234421 (1966)
Sylvania - US3407327 (1968)
Westinghouse - US3452238 (1969)

Enjoy the read, those patents contain a wealth of interesting technical information.
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Feb 09, 2019 at 07:18 PM Author: Globe Collector
Oh, I love ploughing through lamp patent stuff...really the only place one can easily find "the meat in the sandwich"...I will look those up.


Have you ever thought of writing your own monograph on plasma physics with a practical "bent" toward H.I.D. lamps?

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Feb 10, 2019 at 05:20 AM Author: Max.
By the way, did you know that it is actually Osram of West Germany that was the first company to patent the modern MH lamp? See DE1184008B filed on August 1960. GE filed its first MH lamp patent 5 months later (US3234421, filed January 1961), but somehow they are considered to be the first to have developed and marketed a practical MH lamp, perhaps because they featured some pre-production Multi-vapor lamps at the 1964 World Fair held in New York. In fact, Osram/Radium and GE released their first commercial MH lamps at the same time in 1964, both using a Na-Tl-In fill chemistry (2 kW for the Germans, 400 and 1000 W for the Americans).


Have you ever thought of writing your own monograph on plasma physics with a practical "bent" toward H.I.D. lamps?

In the past few years I have co-authored several scientific papers dealing with MH lamps and mentored some MSc and PhD students too (and one company historian lol), but I have not considered writing a book on the subject. That could be a good idea for the future if I find some free time, although this work will certainly have a strong historical undertone given how fast HID lamps are becoming obsolete (I see this month that the neutral-white /840 versions of Philips's CosmoWhite lamps are already listed as discontinued on the site of certain retailers).
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Feb 11, 2019 at 06:08 PM Author: Globe Collector
I had a go at getting those Patents Max.

I was able to download all the US ones, Gilbert Reiling's, tri salt, Frdederic Koury's Sc, Na and Daniel Larson's Tl, Dy...BUT

I was unable to get the German one...DE1184008B...and as this predates all the others, it is a very desirable document for me to read....the reason I could not acquire it was that the "download as .pdf" functionality simply did not appear and neither could I locate it online, just a whole lot of vague references to it.

Any chance you can attach a copy of it to an e-mail and shoot it through to " globecollector(at)internode(dot)on(dot)net "?


The only one I have read so far is an unrelated one which appeared while searching out the others, Kurt Schmidt's High Pressure Sodium of 1966....what eventually became the Lucalox lamp. Very interesting to see the interplay between the thermal conductivity of the starter gas and the current carrying/radiating species.

Also interesting to see that he tried very high partial pressures if sodium, 1000 Torr and saw the great broadening and reversal of the resonance line....something that was later implimented in lamps like the SDW-T and CPO-TG.....but never commercialized at that early time despite being observed in the lab!

I realize I have to add a new field to my database for discharge lamps...saturated, i.e. Clausius Capayron, or unsaturated, i.e. PV =nRT types!

Also he tried an unsaturated version (with respect to sodium) that had thallium in it....pity this never saw the light of day in any eventtully marketed models.

Id love to have access to a lab and remake some of these early experimental models...they are really historically significant lamps!


Oh, also, Stanislav sent me through a few pictures of North American Tri-Salt lamps. I assume you were talking to him about my interest in this regard?


That reminds me...I'll go and do that GMHIE 400W/E40 now....DONE!

Manufactured articles should be made to be used, not made to be sold!

Fee, Fye, Fow, Fum, A dead man's eye and a parrot's BUM!

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