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8 Foot HO Preheat/Switch-Start !

8 Foot HO Preheat/Switch-Start !

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What you see here is a board with some stuff mounted on it (LOL): an 8' 110w HO lamp (F96T12/HO), but instead of running on a standard US HO ballast (which would be rapid-start)...Its got UK gear - 2 chokes, & a capacitor + a starter .. so its preheat (or switch-start!)

I wasn't quite sure what was gonna happen when I plugged this in (to the 240v dryer outlet), but it fired right up without any problem :) (now what would happen long term I'm not sure as I didn't let it run too long, the chokes/ballasts do get kinda hot)

This expirament was made possible by LG member kevxsi16v!

F8T5_VHO.jpg Z_MOT1.jpg 8HO-SS.jpg 0F20.jpg

Light Information

Light Information

Manufacturer:Thorn (chokes) / GE (lamp)
Lamp
Lamp Type:High Output Linear Fluorescent
Base:Recessed Double Contact (RDC)
Shape/Finish:T12
Fixture
Ballast Type:Preheat
Socket Type:RDC
Location:(laying on the floor)
Electrical
Voltage:240
Physical/Production
Dimensions:96"
Application/Use:Test 'fixture'

File information

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Filename:8HO-SS.jpg
Album name:xmaslightguy / Weird Tests & Fun Stuff
Keywords:Lamps
File Size:93 KB
Date added:Aug 19, 2011
Dimensions:1024 x 417 pixels
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URL:https://www.lighting-gallery.net/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-57717
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Kev
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Aug 19, 2011 at 04:34 PM Author: Kev
wow you got the stuff then! I was kinda hoping it was going to be a bit of a surprise! Did the 2 tubes survive i sent??

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Aug 19, 2011 at 05:23 PM Author: Peach_Lover
I always (well, ever since joining this site and seeing what they use overseas) wondered if this would work, this answers my question . I guess the difference between 50hz - 60hz doesn't matter much then.
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Aug 19, 2011 at 05:25 PM Author: Kev
Was it very blink happy xmaslightguy?

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Aug 19, 2011 at 06:19 PM Author: DieselNut

Preheat Fluorescents forever!
I love diesel engines, rural/farm life and vintage lighting!

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Aug 19, 2011 at 08:33 PM Author: xmaslightguy
@kevxsi16v:
Yep.. I was deff surprised when the delivery guy showed up I was thinking "I don't remember ordering anything on eBay recently" LOL
One of the 2 tubes made it but sadly the 2nd one was completely shattered in its box.
It wasn't blink-happy - just a couple quick clicks of the starter & it fired right up!

@Peach_Lover
I too wondered if this would work after seeing the 100w/125w 8' preheat/switch-start's
My only question/concern would be weather the choke/ballast would overheat when left on for a longer period (my test here was a half-hour at most)

@DieselNut
yep is the perfect icon for this LOL

Colored Fluorescent's such as F40T12 Red or  Green or Blue are awesome...

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Aug 19, 2011 at 09:35 PM Author: joseph_125
I've always wondered if something like a 100w MV ballast could start the 8 foot HOs too.
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Aug 19, 2011 at 09:59 PM Author: xmaslightguy
@joseph_125: I remember kevxsi16v saying that they originally went with 125w for the 8-footers just so it would run on a 125w MV ballast!

Colored Fluorescent's such as F40T12 Red or  Green or Blue are awesome...

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Aug 19, 2011 at 10:26 PM Author: joseph_125
The 8 foots might run on a 100w MV ballast then, I've ran 125w MV lamps on a 100w MV ballast before.
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Aug 19, 2011 at 10:50 PM Author: xmaslightguy
@joseph_125 I think that one is worth trying if you've got a spare 100w MV ballast handy

Colored Fluorescent's such as F40T12 Red or  Green or Blue are awesome...

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Aug 20, 2011 at 12:31 AM Author: Ash
What ballasts you use ?

If they are overheating you can put 3 ballasts for higher power lamps in series, or 3 or lower power in parallel (series is better)
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Aug 20, 2011 at 11:01 PM Author: xmaslightguy
@Ash: Ballasts are 2x Thorn G69340.4

-------
I did some more tests today:
* 1st test: 8' 110w HO lamp with ballasts+capacitor ... Fires right up but as mentioned in the original post, the ballasts seem to get quite hot even with less than a half hour run-time (I really think it'd over-heat if left on for even a full hour)
* 2nd test: 8' 110w HO lamp with ballasts but no capacitor ... It'd blink multiple times, come on for a second or 2 then go out & re-start (basically like an EOL lamp would)
* 3rd test: 8' 95w 'energy saver' HO lamp with ballasts but no capacitor ... A bit more blink-happy than test-1 but still fires up fine, Its been running for probably around a hour, and the ballasts seem more of a normal hotness so success maybe ??

----
I think a longer test might be in order sometime

Colored Fluorescent's such as F40T12 Red or  Green or Blue are awesome...

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Aug 21, 2011 at 02:48 AM Author: Kev
@Xmaslightguy that is what the 8 foot 125W do if you try running them without the caps. I think the 110W lamps and the 125W lamps are VERY similar in construction. Im not sure how hot the ballasts get over here but they do get quite hot. I dont see why it would over heat?

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Aug 21, 2011 at 03:05 AM Author: Bulb Freak
it shood be fine I have seen meny 8ft fittings with stuck startes for weeks months and even YEARS and thay do not beren up plus thes are choocks and do not have oll the bits and bobs your ballasts have

My other hobby is buses, especially the Routemaster

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Aug 21, 2011 at 03:09 AM Author: Kev
@Bulb boy this is very true i think there has only ever been 2 or 3 occasions where i have had to replace a ballast in an 8 foot. They have either been water damaged or modern Tridonics!

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Aug 21, 2011 at 09:16 PM Author: xmaslightguy
@kevxsi16v Interesting that the 8 foot 125w operates in the same way without the cap I wonder if our 110w & your 125w are truly similar, if the same then goes for our 95w & your 100w

I may be being over cautious with the heat thing but i deff don't want to risk these .. i can say that it for gets hotter faster with the 110w & capacitor than with 95w & no cap.
The only thing i can think of that might be an issue is the 50/60 hz

-----
I can say that it is cool seeing an 8' fire up on preheat/switch-start ... eventually that'll call for a YouTube video

I think another very interesting 'test' would be to get hold of an 8' HO T8 lamp & throw it in this "fixture" ... I know such a thing exists, but I've never seen one.

Colored Fluorescent's such as F40T12 Red or  Green or Blue are awesome...

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Aug 22, 2011 at 12:43 AM Author: Kev
@Xmaslightguy YES that would be cool. What about a 6' HO tube next? What watt are they? The Thorn ballasts i sent you will opperate anything between 60 and 80W so would be cool to try something like that??
Yes the 110W HO lamp and 95W HO lamps DEFINATLY requite a Youtube video!!!

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Aug 22, 2011 at 04:10 AM Author: Bulb Freak
@kev 6ft HO lamps are 85W

My other hobby is buses, especially the Routemaster

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Aug 22, 2011 at 05:29 AM Author: Kev
@bulbfreak I mean an American lamp over here 85 what is not HO as we never had T12 HO fittings that was just the old wattage before the 75w energy savers came out!

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Aug 22, 2011 at 05:34 AM Author: Bulb Freak
@kev an American 6ft HO tube is 85W see here http://www.lampco.co.uk/results.asp?search=F72T12-DHO&section=Lamps&adv=phrase&searchbtn=search

My other hobby is buses, especially the Routemaster

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Aug 22, 2011 at 08:24 AM Author: DieselNut
I have a couple cases of the T8 HO 8 foot tubes. They are 84 watt. VERY sorry tubes and horrible failure rate, so I will not mind at all trashing a few with some experiments. I built a table for my party that is coming up this Saturday. After the party, the table will be used for these experiments in my shop (with a fire extinguisher nearby). It is a 4 foot by 8 foot table. Perfect for lighting experiments!
@xmaslightguy, sounds like your experiment with the 8 foot 110 watt tube with no capacitor produces about the same results as when I tried it on my 100 watt T17 ballast. I need to try to fire up a VHO tube with that ballast. What length of VHO is around 100 watts? 8 foots are 215 watts, so maybe a 4 footer?

Preheat Fluorescents forever!
I love diesel engines, rural/farm life and vintage lighting!

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Aug 22, 2011 at 11:10 AM Author: suzukir122
You know, I kinda knew this was possible.
Just didn't think I'd ever see it.

Interests
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2. Weighting/staying extremely athletic
3. Severe Thunderstorms of all kinds
4. Food and drinks. So gimme them bbq ribs
Yep
Lighting has been a passion of mine since I was born. I consider everyone on LG to be a friend

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Aug 22, 2011 at 02:46 PM Author: Kev
@Suzukir122 I have always thought the same, it NEEDED to be done!!

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Aug 22, 2011 at 06:36 PM Author: xmaslightguy
@kevxsi16v Maybe I'll try a 7' HO lamp (100w) next on this one
If i come across one of those T8 HO 8-footer's I'll deff have to try it
When i get some time to do it, I plan to do some YouTube vid's of these tests

@DieselNut 4' VHO is 110w
That table sounds like the test bench for these experiments LOL

Colored Fluorescent's such as F40T12 Red or  Green or Blue are awesome...

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Aug 22, 2011 at 08:24 PM Author: DieselNut
Xmaslightguy, if we can do some trades, you can have some 84 watt T8s. I would be afraid to ship them, but I do not need them. They are not cheap to buy, but they are the ultimate in high failure POS lamps. Don't waste your money buying any. I will give them to you if there is a way to get them in your hands.
crazy thought crossed my mind...what do y'all reckon would happen hooking a LPF preheat/switchstart 120v F40 single lamp ballast up to 240v and trying to run a 8 foot lamp....or two F40s in series? It would call for a 3 amp fuse, a fire extinguisher nearby and a pair of 34 watt junk tubes on the first run!!

Preheat Fluorescents forever!
I love diesel engines, rural/farm life and vintage lighting!

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Aug 22, 2011 at 11:18 PM Author: xmaslightguy
@DieselNut
Yeah i don't know how you'd ship something like that (plus it'd probably cost more than a new one LOL)

So those 8-foot T8 HO's really suck that bad?? The Slimline T8's seem good, in the places that have them running its rare to even see a dead one...

I think if you put 2 120v F40 preheat/switchstart ballasts in series it might work .. but they'd have to be a basic choke like the F20 ballasts are - my understanding is that there is a transformer inside the ballast case, along with with the ballast part (+ maybe a capacitor?) for anything 3-feet or longer. If anyone ever gets a dead one they need to take it apart just to see what all is inside LOL

A single F40 120v ballast on 240v would for sure result in some smoke (I think even with no lamp ) and probably a cool video LOL ... especially if the capacitor inside blew up
34w lamps are deff the perfect victims for any weird tests - esp if you got some free

Colored Fluorescent's such as F40T12 Red or  Green or Blue are awesome...

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Aug 23, 2011 at 12:22 AM Author: joseph_125
Whatever you guys do to those 34w lamps be sure to post some pics of the aftermath or a nice video.
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Aug 23, 2011 at 05:04 AM Author: sol
Quote from xmaslightguy : "I think if you put 2 120v F40 preheat/switchstart ballasts in series it might work .. but they'd have to be a basic choke like the F20 ballasts are"

I always wondered if I could put two 15 watt 120V chokes in series on 240V and run a F30T8 lamp with an FS-4 starter. Or two F15T8 in series each with it's own FS-2 starter.
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Aug 23, 2011 at 12:26 PM Author: suzukir122
I would love to see whether a VHO can light on this... I bet since it's
also 8 feet, it can run just fine. Just a little under driven, however. lol

Interests
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Yep
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Aug 23, 2011 at 08:17 PM Author: xmaslightguy
@joseph_125 yep.. any tests that are done will be videoed

@sol I plan to try just that with 2 20w chokes & a F40T12 lamp on 240v

@suzukir122 That'd very likely work with a rapid-start HO ballast and VHO lamp, but preheat/switchstart is more picky about lamp wattage, I don't think it'd work.

Colored Fluorescent's such as F40T12 Red or  Green or Blue are awesome...

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Aug 23, 2011 at 08:32 PM Author: joseph_125
I actually wonder now if you can wire up a regular 8 foot HO ballast as a preheat ballast, after I read on this thread that it could be done with F40 RS ballasts.
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Aug 23, 2011 at 10:03 PM Author: xmaslightguy
That'd be an interesting test!

Colored Fluorescent's such as F40T12 Red or  Green or Blue are awesome...

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Aug 27, 2011 at 04:39 PM Author: nogden
I am about to try this same test using 100 watt tanning bed chokes and 95 watt HO tubes. I found the chokes cheap on eBay, so I don't really care if I burn them up. After all, any result is a result! Now I just need to pick up some S-12 starters and a pair of capacitors.

I didn't realize the capacitors were important. I thought they were just for power factor correction. What is a good source for caps? Can I just use an electrolytic power supply filter capacitor? I have a selection of those in different values, though probably not for 240V.

I'll also have to install a 240V outlet in the garage or buy a step-up transformer. I think I have everything else I need for this experiment (oh, except for some spare time)!
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Aug 27, 2011 at 07:10 PM Author: xmaslightguy
@nogden
Try first without the capacitor! the worst it'll do is not start LOL

I wouldn't be surprised if you could find a capacitor on eBay (I think they have to be one rated for use on AC mains power .. kevxsi16v could answer this for sure & what the correct value would be for 100w)

The S-16 starter might be an eBay thing too (if you can't find any, kev sent me a couple spares, I could probably send one your way)

Colored Fluorescent's such as F40T12 Red or  Green or Blue are awesome...

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Aug 27, 2011 at 07:19 PM Author: nogden
Are using S-16 starters? I read that this ballast needs S-11 or S-12 starters. Is that a difference in 100 vs. 125 watt ballasts? Actually, tanning bed starters are cheap on eBay so that's probably where I will get them.

I did find a cap on eBay for about $17, but that's a little more than I want to pay so I will keep looking.
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Aug 27, 2011 at 07:37 PM Author: xmaslightguy
Yep I'm using S-16's .. they say good for 70-125w. I think a S-12 goes up to 100w

Colored Fluorescent's such as F40T12 Red or  Green or Blue are awesome...

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Aug 27, 2011 at 09:23 PM Author: joseph_125
I wonder if T17 starters will work for these experiments too?
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Feb 18, 2013 at 09:45 PM Author: ace100w120v
I would be curious to see how a normal-output 8 foot slimline tube would work on this...
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Feb 18, 2013 at 11:52 PM Author: xmaslightguy
@ace100w120v LOL it'd deff be overdriven maybe if i get one with a damaged endcap it'll become a 'test victim'

I currently have a 7-foot (100w) HO lamp on this (no capacitor) & its used atleast a couple times per week.
I still eventually want to try an 8-foot HO T8 ...

Colored Fluorescent's such as F40T12 Red or  Green or Blue are awesome...

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Feb 18, 2013 at 11:59 PM Author: Bulb Freak
if u use a 8ft T8 HO it will blow the cathodes to bits u might as well use a F96T12 on this if ur going to use a F96T8/HO. to run a 8ft T8 HO on line Hz u need a 85W 8ft T12 SRS ballast (or eny 65W SRS ballast will do) or a F96T12 slimline ballast.if u remove the capasertor u can run sun bed 100W lamps on this.

My other hobby is buses, especially the Routemaster

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Feb 19, 2013 at 12:20 AM Author: xmaslightguy
I'd love to come across a SRS ballast ... of any type LOL
I do have a couple 100W T12 sun bed lamps (but they are 6-foot)

Colored Fluorescent's such as F40T12 Red or  Green or Blue are awesome...

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May 19, 2019 at 05:19 AM Author: Bulb Freak
Oh gosh, my spelling was horrible back then



having sent a 8ft Popular pack to FunkyBulb, and thanks to him I have been able to closely observe what such a setup does on 60Hz

I figured out why the ballasts get extra hot,

it turns out, when you have a leading setup like this with a shunt capacitor, the 50/60Hz rule becomes inverse

in that if say you have a 60Hz Choke ballast you want to run on 50Hz supply, to stop it from overheating, you need to run it on a lower voltage

for example 120V 60Hz would be happy on 100V 50Hz, and vice versa (a 50Hz choke on 60Hz would need a higher voltage to run at full power)

but it turns when you add a series capacitor to the circuit, that gets inverted, so a 50Hz setup will actually be over driven on 60Hz

now the best way to get around this issue, is by lowering the value of the capacitor, as in these setups its the capacitor that controls the line and lamp current

on 240V 60Hz, a 7.2UF capacitor gives about 1.2A IIRC which is higher then the 940Ma a 125W T12 is rated for, and much higher then the 800Ma of a F96T12/HO tube

IIRC FunkyBulb found that a 5.5Uf 450V capacitor gave a nice 800Ma with a F96T12/HO tube, if you have a DMM and can measure lamp current I recommend experimenting with a few capacitor values and seeing what gives you the best lamp current

however never go above 7.2Uf in this case

hopefully this helps

My other hobby is buses, especially the Routemaster

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May 19, 2019 at 04:17 PM Author: xmaslightguy
@Bulb Freak:
Yep.. I remember seeing his posts about that (either here on LG or maybe one of the other sites)
I do have a meter that I could use measure lamp current. I had planned to pick up a 450v cap in the 5uf range, but never did.

Surprisingly, its what - around 8 years later...this thing is still mounted on that same board, and still has the same 7-foot 100w lamp(something I should be saving not using) from one of my tests. It gets used nearly every day for brief periods, & only shows minor wear on the lamp. Surprised I haven't EOL'ed the thing by now.

Colored Fluorescent's such as F40T12 Red or  Green or Blue are awesome...

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May 19, 2019 at 09:07 PM Author: Men of God
经过我们广大中国人的实验得出结论,120V 60Hz的镇流器使用110V 50Hz电源比较好,如果使用100V 50Hz电源,则超前滞后型镇流器的滞后侧灯管会出现启动失败的情况!

我不会英文,所以我用中文,请你们用翻译网站翻译我打的字!

I can't in English, so I in Chinese, please use the translation website to translate my words!

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May 20, 2019 at 05:55 AM Author: suzukir122
Dang! You still have this up and sometimes running @xmaslightguy?! That's impressive... I remember commenting to this back in 2011 lol

Interests
1. Motorcycles, Women, and Lighting (especially fluorescent)
2. Weighting/staying extremely athletic
3. Severe Thunderstorms of all kinds
4. Food and drinks. So gimme them bbq ribs
Yep
Lighting has been a passion of mine since I was born. I consider everyone on LG to be a friend

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May 20, 2019 at 04:57 PM Author: xmaslightguy
Quote
经过我们广大中国人的实验得出结论,120V 60Hz的镇流器使用110V 50Hz电源比较好,如果使用100V 50Hz电源,则超前滞后型镇流器的滞后侧灯管会出现启动失败的情况!
Sorry, Men of God, I can't read that

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@suzukir122: Yep....and gets used most mornings for a brief period.

Colored Fluorescent's such as F40T12 Red or  Green or Blue are awesome...

Men of God
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May 20, 2019 at 08:39 PM Author: Men of God
OK, I'll use English After experiments by our Chinese people, it is concluded that the 120V 60 Hz ballast uses a 110V 50 Hz power supply. If the 100V 50 Hz power supply is used, the lead side lamp tube of the leading lag ballast will fail to start!

我不会英文,所以我用中文,请你们用翻译网站翻译我打的字!

I can't in English, so I in Chinese, please use the translation website to translate my words!

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^homebuilt fixture


GoL ATL
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May 21, 2019 at 05:39 PM Author: xmaslightguy
@Men of God:
Interesting. I guess 100v isn't high enough.

I'm assuming one thing that's doing to make a big difference is if the ballast has a capacitor or not.
Basically like what showed up with this ballast.

Colored Fluorescent's such as F40T12 Red or  Green or Blue are awesome...

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May 21, 2019 at 08:26 PM Author: Men of God
Yes, the side with the capacitor will fail to start

我不会英文,所以我用中文,请你们用翻译网站翻译我打的字!

I can't in English, so I in Chinese, please use the translation website to translate my words!

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