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Interior lighting of EN57 train

Interior lighting of EN57 train

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Close up of a ballast installed inside a fixture used in EN57 EMU train interior lighting. It's designed for a 1m 25W tube, though at 0,35A it is a little bit overdriven (typical ballasts for 25W tubes provide 0,29A). EN57 have a MG set and a separate MA set. MG set converts 3kV DC collected from catenary to 110V DC for onboard electric equipment and to charge batteries. MA set produces 220V 500Hz AC for lighting from 110V DC. In such configuration fluorescent lighting stays on even when there is a break in 3kV power supply. In such case MA continues to work using power from onboard battery, though system of relays switches off 2/3 of tubes on purpose to reduce energy consumption. Each fixture also has two 8W 110V incandescent bulbs as emergency lighting in case when MA set is broken, nowadays it happens quite often due to advanced age of those trains.

DSC49991.JPG DSC57490.JPG Clipboard01.jpg DSC64068.JPG

Light Information

Light Information

Manufacturer:Fixture: Polamp Train: Pafawag
Lamp
Lamp Type:Fluorescent
Electrical
Wattage:25W
Current:0,35A

File information

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Filename:Clipboard01.jpg
Album name:trojmiejski / Trains and trams
Keywords:Miscellaneous
File Size:106 KB
Date added:Feb 28, 2017
Dimensions:800 x 600 pixels
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rjluna2
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Robert


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Mar 01, 2017 at 06:25 AM Author: rjluna2
That is an interesting ballast: High frequency version, which it means smaller ballast compare to the lower frequency version.

Pretty, please no more Chinese failure.

Men of God
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jiachao.wei.71 chao990613
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Mar 01, 2017 at 06:34 AM Author: Men of God
220V 500Hz,你是哪国人???

我不会英文,所以我用中文,请你们用翻译网站翻译我打的字!

I can't in English, so I in Chinese, please use the translation website to translate my words!

HU112
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Mar 01, 2017 at 07:18 AM Author: HU112
@men of god
This ballast is a specially-made model for use on trains with 220V 500Hz power supply. In other words, not for domestic use.

No more cheapy crappy Chinese junk, please.

Men of God
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jiachao.wei.71 chao990613
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Mar 01, 2017 at 07:21 AM Author: Men of God
额,谢了,我知道是列车上的镇流器,刚才没看上传者的资料,戳进去看了才知道是瑞典的。😂

我不会英文,所以我用中文,请你们用翻译网站翻译我打的字!

I can't in English, so I in Chinese, please use the translation website to translate my words!

trojmiejski
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Mar 01, 2017 at 11:36 AM Author: trojmiejski
The reason for choosing 500Hz was to eliminate flicker, reduction in size and weight was additional advantage. Some older trains in East Germany also used 220V 500Hz lighting while in West Germany 220V 100Hz, some Czechoslovak EMUs generated 220V 425Hz.
Men of God
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jiachao.wei.71 chao990613
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Mar 01, 2017 at 11:52 AM Author: Men of God
瑞典是沿用的东德的标准?

我不会英文,所以我用中文,请你们用翻译网站翻译我打的字!

I can't in English, so I in Chinese, please use the translation website to translate my words!

Medved
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Jun 11, 2017 at 01:27 PM Author: Medved
The reason for such high frequency is not only the weight (railway is not that much weight sensitive as e.g. airplanes), but to boost the lamp efficacy and even allow the resonant start circuit - fast and reliable startup without the flicker and excessive wear (high heating current prior ignition point). And mainly without the mechanically sensitive starters (because of the vibrations)...

No more selfballasted c***

trojmiejski
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Jun 11, 2017 at 02:11 PM Author: trojmiejski
It must be remembered that this is a design from the 50s, technology of that time greatly limited the possibilities of designing a starterless gear that was lightweight and reliable. At 50Hz the design of the element responsible for heating of the filament is more complicated, there were fluorescent fixtures with starterless gear using heating transformer produced in Poland in small quantities. Those fixtures worked properly when they were maintained in correct way, but many didn't known how that gear worked and those fixtures failed because of that. Mostly it was due to the need of grounding the tube caps through additional contacts, when someone painted those fixtures, a layer of paint disrupted the grounding and tubes did not start. 220V 500Hz gear from those train fixtures didn't need any grounding of tube caps and only once I've seen fixture related failure due to a busted capacitor, tube behaved like on a switchstart gear with a starter with fused contacts. Most cases of fluorescent lighting failures in EN57 are because of faulty central rotary alternator and obviously EOL of lamps (chinese T8s often don't last even a month).




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Feb 07, 2018 at 01:57 PM Author:
Interesting, I knew that aircraft used 400 Hz supplies, but I've not seen 500 Hz used anywhere before. We have a long train journey coming up soon, I must see if I can find out what is used on the trains here
trojmiejski
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Feb 10, 2018 at 09:52 AM Author: trojmiejski
MA sets were used in trains designed between late 1940s and early 1960s (EN57 were produced up to 1990s but very little changes were made across the years, those from last batch use exactly the same tech as those from first batch). Since late 1960s train lighting systems were designed differently. Instead of central converter, each tube or each pair of series connected 20W/18W tubes is powered by individual transistor ballast. Input voltage of such ballast is most often 24V or 110V DC, depending on onboard electrical installation of a given train type (contemporary trains almost always use 24V, in older rolling stock 24V was used in railway carriages, while 110V in EMUs). Output voltage is 220V/230V with frequency in range of kHz (in Poland transistor gear was improved over time and while newest generate 19kHz, earlier ones generate slightly less). Individual gear not only is more efficient, but also less prone to failure. When such a ballast fails, the rest of lighting still works, while failure of a central converter kills main lighting system completely and emergency lighting is turned on. Schemes of different 24V transistor ballasts can be seen here, described as "Schemat elektryczny przekształtnika P360", "Schemat elektryczny przekształtnika STOK2", "Schemat elektryczny przekształtnika STOK21":
http://www.zeus.krb.com.pl/?przeglad-rozwiazan-ukladow-i-zespolow-elektrycznych-oraz-elektronicznych.-czesc-i,28
trojmiejski
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Apr 02, 2018 at 12:48 PM Author: trojmiejski
Was there any rolling stock in Great Britain with central static lighting converter made by J. Stone company? In 1964 Polish State Railways received a batch of railway carriages Made in Poland but with imported lighting converters, as the products of J. Stone were the only ones on market which met strict requirements of PKP. None from this batch survived in original form. I'm wondering if there is a chance that similar components were also used in rolling stock Made in Great Britain. It makes sense that between rotary converters and individual transistor gear there may have been rolling stock with something in between.
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Aug 31, 2018 at 07:20 AM Author: Fluorescent05
Very interesting! Our train lighting is T8 fluorescent with electronic instant start ballasts on standard 120v 60hz (The trains get power from overhead power lines.

Don't be fooLED, T8 IS the worst thing to do to a magnetic T12 fixture.

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Aug 31, 2018 at 12:53 PM Author: trojmiejski
Advantage of unified standard, in Europe use of different AC (16,7Hz or 50Hz) or DC electrification systems prohibited unification of head end power. As EMUs and DMUs are closed systems that aren't connected with classic carriages, different methods of supplying power are used, depending on design principles and technology available at given time. Some use similar layout of three phase 380V-440V 50Hz but generally high frequency electronic ballasts are used as in most european countries high frequency is obligatory or strongly preferred. I don't know the technical details of every motor unit and carriage in Europe but from what I know I can count only 5 particular instances of direct supply of 50Hz to light bulbs in trains. 1. Early double-decker carriages from DDR, 1m 25W fluorescent tubes on switch-start powered by MA set, similarly like in EN57, those carriages are now scrapped or the few surviving ones had lighting system changed many years ago. 2. Czechoslovak EMUs of 451 series, they have 3x380V 50Hz installation which powers not only lighting but also other appliances like pneumatic compressor. 3. Yugoslavian 412 series, now used by Serbian Railways (ŽS). 4. Different variants of soviet ER2 and ER9 EMUs, in this case there is no problem with flicker as 220V 50Hz powers incandescent bulbs. 5. German Interregio-wagen, carriages of different origin unified in standard by modernisation program in late 80's and early 90's. They have lighting based on 2-pin PL-C lamps with integrated starters and during startup they behave like typical switch-start circuit although I don't know if there is one central DC to AC converter and fixtures have only a choke or the conversion of DC to AC is done indepedently in each fixture by special gear. Overall it is logical to use 50Hz here due to integrated starters (though there were mainland intended high frequency electronic E27 adapters for such PL lamps which used capacitor in the starter to ignite the tube without igniting bimetal in bootle, maybe for some reason gear like that didn't achieve railway certification). Polish EMUs use two configurations, main internal power supply is 24V or 110V DC and for lighting there is either a central MA set (or electronic equivalent) or each fixture has individual gear which converts DC to high frequency AC for the tube. Some EN57 after small scale modernisation have a mix of both configuration, most of lighting is original powered from MA set but in baggage compartment between cab and first door, addition of new handrails and bike holders required modification of ceiling and installation of smaller new fixtures which are powered by individual gear.
Going back to the lack of unification of HEP standard for locomotive hauled carriages, early on there was no easy way to convert to single standard. Lighting was powered by a dynamo connected to railway carriage wheelset (old carriages with such system are still used) and DC was used to power MA set (usually with frequency higher than 50Hz to eliminate flicker) or individual gear. Such autonomity was required because there were still used steam and diesel locomotives which provided no electrical power at all to carriages. Even in later carriages with static converters which converted high voltage to low voltage, that low voltage was usually 24V DC so fluorescent gear designed to be used in carriages with dynamos could be used also here. Apart from that, in case of decoupling locomotive from the consist lighting would still be on, provided from battery, much easier than to make main lighting work from AC grid powered directly from locomotive and install completely separate battery powered emergency installation. In Europe at first HEP was used exclusively for heating. For this use additional conversions are overcomplicating. Why use rotary converter on locomotive to lower down DC voltage when you can supply 3kV or 1.5kV directly to carriages? Why on AC locomotives convert 1-phase to 3-phase when you can directly connect HEP wire to proper tap of locomotive transformer? One HEP wire universal for DC and AC instead of 3-phase standard requiring complicated devices installed on locomotive. Nowadays that wouldn't be a problem with modern static converters but all rolling stock is compliant with those old standards and it is logistically very hard to implement new standards where old still work fine.
trojmiejski
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Sep 05, 2018 at 12:07 PM Author: trojmiejski
This particular unit numbered EN57-1757 inside which I made this photo was recently converted to LED lighting.
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Sep 05, 2018 at 02:06 PM Author: Fluorescent05
Did you save any ballasts or fixtures?

Don't be fooLED, T8 IS the worst thing to do to a magnetic T12 fixture.

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Sep 06, 2018 at 06:06 PM Author: trojmiejski
Unfortunately no, as I don't have direct contact with the transport company that owns those trains, besides the LEDification was done by a separate company located in different city. This photo was made during a normal run with passengers, everyone could see the choke due to what probably was an effect of devastation. Besides, EN57-1757 had some years ago modified the baggage compartment between cab and first automatic doors. That compartment was in original form very big and as there was no separate compartment for train manager, the baggage compartment in the front in given direction of train voyage was taken by train manager and locked out, people with bikes and carts had to go to opposite end. The solution was to divide big baggage compartment into two, small compartment for train manager and multifunctional compartment for passengers in which new bike holders and handrails for standing passengers were installed. As part of those additional things were attached to the ceiling, this required modification of the ceiling and installation of smaller new fixtures. 1757 was one of first attempts and those new fixtures for 20W T12 or 18W T8 had new body but old gear for 25W tubes (500Hz for other tubes was not produced). The choke on the photo was installed in such mish-mash fixture. Final result was bad, 18W/20W tubes were severely underdriven on 25W gear. In later modernisations it was decided that fluorescent fixtures in rebuilt baggage compartment need to be powered by individual gear working on 110V DC.
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Nov 29, 2018 at 05:01 PM Author: trojmiejski
I forgot to add that in EN57 trains toilets are lit by a single incandescent bulb connected to 220V 500Hz supply. This oddity is present due to two reasons, toilets are too small to physically fit in 1m 25W tube and engineers tried to not overcomplicate the circuits, lighting in toilets is supposed to start together with the rest of the lighting so it is simply easier to connect the bulb to 220V 500Hz supply than to a DC supply and add additional relays. Of course lighting in driver cabin is 110V DC (in the form of incandescent bulbs) as it should be completely independent from the rest of lighting, turned on or off at any time.
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