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Xenon flash lamp and its flash capacitor

Xenon flash lamp and its flash capacitor

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This is from a toy camera from 2010. The red and black go to either end of the tube, but the white appears to go to the reflector. What is this third wire for and how do I wire it up?

20191105_214238.jpg 20190925_204751.jpg 20190919_173739.jpg 20190919_173754.jpg

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Album name:Fluorescent05 / Pulse Start Metal Halide/High Pressure Sodium
Keywords:Lamps
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Date added:Sep 25, 2019
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rjluna2
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Robert


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Sep 26, 2019 at 05:41 AM Author: rjluna2
The white wire is for the trigger. Probably couple with charging capacitor and when it is fully charged, then you can discharge to the white wire to give off brilliant flash

Pretty, please no more Chinese failure.

Fluorescent05
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Zack


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Sep 26, 2019 at 09:39 AM Author: Fluorescent05
What voltages do they run at?

Don't be fooLED, T8 IS the worst thing to do to a magnetic T12 fixture.

rjluna2
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Robert


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Sep 26, 2019 at 10:09 AM Author: rjluna2
I don't know the voltage rating for this bulb

Pretty, please no more Chinese failure.

sox35
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Mainly the electrical side of things


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Sep 26, 2019 at 10:34 AM Author: sox35
Operating voltage could be anywhere between 500V and 2500V or more, but for a small one like this probably nearer the lower end of the range.

Circuit is relatively simple, something like this (apologies for untidiness, drew it from a book (Lamps & Lighting)):

Ria in Aberdeen
It'll be all right in the end, and if it isn't all right, it isn't the end  Smiley

Medved
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Sep 26, 2019 at 11:30 AM Author: Medved
The voltage across the main electrodes uses to be around 300V, the ignktion pulse in the 1..3kV range. The trigger pulse is to be generated by discharging smaller (around 100nF) capacitor, charged to about 200V, into the ignition pulse tranformer primary. The transformers are usually available at electronkc part stores carrying the discharge tubes, or better to be extracted from where the tube came from (I guess it was some disposable camera in your case). The primary uses to have pins to solder into the PCB, the trigger pulse secondary uses to ol directly onto the lamp. These transformers use to have open magnetic circuit (so just a winding on a rod; no closed circuit likeE core or similar).

No more selfballasted c***

Fluorescent05
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Sep 26, 2019 at 12:30 PM Author: Fluorescent05

The voltage across the main electrodes uses to be around 300V, the ignktion pulse in the 1..3kV range. The trigger pulse is to be generated by discharging smaller (around 100nF) capacitor, charged to about 200V, into the ignition pulse tranformer primary. The transformers are usually available at electronkc part stores carrying the discharge tubes, or better to be extracted from where the tube came from (I guess it was some disposable camera in your case). The primary uses to have pins to solder into the PCB, the trigger pulse secondary uses to ol directly onto the lamp. These transformers use to have open magnetic circuit (so just a winding on a rod; no closed circuit likeE core or similar).

Can I use a CCFL inverter for the 2kv pulse?

Don't be fooLED, T8 IS the worst thing to do to a magnetic T12 fixture.

xmaslightguy
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^homebuilt fixture


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Sep 26, 2019 at 05:35 PM Author: xmaslightguy
This looks similar to some strobe tube/reflector assemblies I had.

@Fluorescent05:
A strobe circuit is fairly simple to build. I did it for the ones I had (technically still have stashed in a box somewhere, but most if not all no longer work...these cheap little strobe tubes don't last nearly as long as a real strobelight).
I have the circuit schematic, along with values of the electronic parts (but not sure if I still have that page up or not).

Colored Fluorescent's such as F40T12 Red or  Green or Blue are awesome...

Fluorescent05
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Sep 27, 2019 at 04:49 AM Author: Fluorescent05

This looks similar to some strobe tube/reflector assemblies I had.

@Fluorescent05:
A strobe circuit is fairly simple to build. I did it for the ones I had (technically still have stashed in a box somewhere, but most if not all no longer work...these cheap little strobe tubes don't last nearly as long as a real strobelight).
I have the circuit schematic, along with values of the electronic parts (but not sure if I still have that page up or not).

If you find it, can you post a picture of it here?

Don't be fooLED, T8 IS the worst thing to do to a magnetic T12 fixture.

Medved
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Sep 27, 2019 at 07:50 AM Author: Medved

Can I use a CCFL inverter for the 2kv pulse?


I'm not sure, but of course you may try it, but dont give it too much chance.
I did a quick search on ebay and what I found were transformers with 6..10kV secondary
transformers with 6..10kV secondary.
What I would expect the large tubes may suffice with 2kV, but the smaller will need higher voltage, mainly because of the higher fill pressure (the arc voltage when burning is all the time the same, all are designed for around 300V on the flash capacitor, so shorter tube needs to compensate the smaller gap by higher pressure).

No more selfballasted c***

Fluorescent05
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Sep 27, 2019 at 09:29 AM Author: Fluorescent05

I'm not sure, but of course you may try it, but dont give it too much chance.
I did a quick search on ebay and what I found were transformers with 6..10kV secondary
transformers with 6..10kV secondary.
What I would expect the large tubes may suffice with 2kV, but the smaller will need higher voltage, mainly because of the higher fill pressure (the arc voltage when burning is all the time the same, all are designed for around 300V on the flash capacitor, so shorter tube needs to compensate the smaller gap by higher pressure).

The flash cap says 330wV on it. Does this mean the flash tube will flash at 330 volts?

Don't be fooLED, T8 IS the worst thing to do to a magnetic T12 fixture.

Medved
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Sep 27, 2019 at 09:37 AM Author: Medved
It means the system was likely designed to charge the cap close to that 330V for flashing. Taking into account anticipated tolerances (10% is rather narrow for such cheap applications, but on the other hand there wont be much marging in component rating either), I would guess the target charging voltage was around 300V, so a typical value for those photo flash tubes.

No more selfballasted c***

Fluorescent05
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Sep 27, 2019 at 09:47 AM Author: Fluorescent05
How do I charge the cap to 300 volts? Will the tube do anything if there is just a trigger pulse and no flash pulse?

Don't be fooLED, T8 IS the worst thing to do to a magnetic T12 fixture.

HomeBrewLamps
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SodiumVapor 105843202020668111118 UCpGClK_9OH8N4QkD1fp-jNw majorpayne1226
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Sep 27, 2019 at 09:58 AM Author: HomeBrewLamps
Easiest way is go to the store and buy a disposable camera to get its circuit board (pre-built with another csp and lamp.

~Owen

Mercury Vapor LampHigh Pressure Sodium Scavenger, Urban Explorer, Lighting Enthusiast and Creator of homebrewlamps Cool High Pressure SodiumMercury Vapor Lamp

Medved
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Sep 27, 2019 at 10:06 AM Author: Medved
What you mean by "no flash pulse"?

The capacitor may be charged by a voltage doubler (two diodes and two ~10uF/250V electrolytic capacitors) from the 120V mains, plus some resistors to limit the max voltage (~1k2/3W series resistor with the line input, plus ~180kOhm/1W bleeder resistor parallel to the cap)

Or a 180kOhm/1W bleeder, but use in the charging doubler two diodes and two 330nF/300V film capacitors, you will get rid of the power dissipation.

No more selfballasted c***

Fluorescent05
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Sep 27, 2019 at 12:43 PM Author: Fluorescent05

What you mean by "no flash pulse"?

The capacitor may be charged by a voltage doubler (two diodes and two ~10uF/250V electrolytic capacitors) from the 120V mains, plus some resistors to limit the max voltage (~1k2/3W series resistor with the line input, plus ~180kOhm/1W bleeder resistor parallel to the cap)

Or a 180kOhm/1W bleeder, but use in the charging doubler two diodes and two 330nF/300V film capacitors, you will get rid of the power dissipation.

Nothing connected to either end of the tube, just a trigger pulse on the white wire.

Don't be fooLED, T8 IS the worst thing to do to a magnetic T12 fixture.

Ash
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Sep 27, 2019 at 12:59 PM Author: Ash
Nothing will happen, as you must have voltage difference to have any effect on anything

If you apply the starting pulse between the reflector and one electrode of the tube (and the other electrode not connected to anything), you might get some partial discharge around the electrode thats connected, but i dont know if it will emit much visible light. But it is enough to ionize the Xenon to start conducting and discharging the big capacitor between the 2 main electrodes, if its connected

Btw, does the pulse polarity (vs. the energized main elctrode) matter ? (if the trigger antenna would be as a small ring around one end of the tube, and not the entire reflector)
Fluorescent05
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Sep 27, 2019 at 02:59 PM Author: Fluorescent05

Nothing will happen, as you must have voltage difference to have any effect on anything

If you apply the starting pulse between the reflector and one electrode of the tube (and the other electrode not connected to anything), you might get some partial discharge around the electrode thats connected, but i dont know if it will emit much visible light. But it is enough to ionize the Xenon to start conducting and discharging the big capacitor between the 2 main electrodes, if its connected

Btw, does the pulse polarity (vs. the energized main elctrode) matter ? (if the trigger antenna would be as a small ring around one end of the tube, and not the entire reflector)

I don't know. Will a CCFL inverter work for the starting pulse?

Don't be fooLED, T8 IS the worst thing to do to a magnetic T12 fixture.

xmaslightguy
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^homebuilt fixture


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Sep 27, 2019 at 08:56 PM Author: xmaslightguy
Quote
Will a CCFL inverter work for the starting pulse?
I don't know, but I doubt it. You'd also have to find a way to make it only give a very brief pulse...if you try to light thing continuously, you'll fry it.

Quote
If you find it, can you post a picture of it here?

Here's a pic of one of the strobes I built.
Rather than spamming a link to my website here (where the schematic & parts list is) I'll PM that.

Colored Fluorescent's such as F40T12 Red or  Green or Blue are awesome...

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