Return to the thumbnail page Display/hide file information See previous file See next file

Pass and Seymour mystery outlet

Pass and Seymour mystery outlet

Click to view full size image

This outlet has been in my collection a while but I've no use for it. It looks like a 240v dryer outlet but its smaller. It will fit in single gang boxes with wallplates made for single 120 volt receptacles. I haven't seen plugs for this but I'm guessing also 240v.

IMG_6644.JPG IMG_6624.JPG IMG_2724.JPG IMG_2526.JPG

Light Information

Light Information

Manufacturer:Pass and Seymour
Physical/Production
Factory Location:Usa

File information

File information

Download: Download this File
Filename:IMG_6624.JPG
Album name:DaveMan / My collection: Gear
Keywords:Gear
File Size:474 KB
Date added:Jan 14, 2018
Dimensions:2465 x 2465 pixels
Displayed:277 times
Date Time:2018:01:08 21:11:52
DateTime Original:2018:01:08 21:11:52
Exposure Bias:0 EV
Exposure Time:1/30 sec
FNumber:f 2.2
Flash:No Flash
Focal length:4.15 mm
ISO:100
Make:Apple
Model:iPhone 6s
Software:10.3.1
White Balance:0
URL:https://www.lighting-gallery.net/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-141396
Favorites:Add to Favorites
Comments
randacnam7321
Full Member
***
Offline

Posts: 125
View Gallery

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)
Jan 15, 2018 at 08:15 AM Author: randacnam7321
These are dimensionally equivalent to Australian AS3112 receptacles.

Old school FTW!

WestinghouseCeramalux
Full Member
***
Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 240
View Gallery

Vintage HID Collector


View Profile Personal Message (Offline)
Jan 16, 2018 at 12:17 PM Author: WestinghouseCeramalux
I've seen these before. Something like a NEMA 6-10? That's all I can think of at this time.

Your mission - should you choose to accept it - is to save unique and rare HID lighting before it's all scrapped.

rjluna2
Sr. Member
****
Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 302
View Gallery

Robert


GoL
View Profile Personal Message (Offline)
Jan 16, 2018 at 03:17 PM Author: rjluna2
I hope this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:NEMA_simplified_pins.svg would help

Pretty, please no more Chinese failure.

Lodge
Hero Member
*****
Offline

Posts: 878
View Gallery

18W Goldeye / 52W R&C LED front door lighting


View Profile Personal Message (Offline)
Jan 17, 2018 at 02:36 AM Author: Lodge
It's a NEMA 10-20R type plug, the top two are both lives and the bottom one is a neutral there is no ground on this plug, they are not very common today but you can still get the plugs for them if your willing to order them and wait a few weeks from Hubbell part number HBL9977C... So you can use it for both 120 and 240 if you wire from live to live or live to neutral, What was it being used for ?
Mercurylamps
Hero Member
*****
Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 517
View Gallery

240V 50Hz


View Profile Personal Message (Offline)
Jan 17, 2018 at 02:55 AM Author: Mercurylamps
Yep we have the same design for our standard plug and sockets here. We don't have split phase however so the top left prong is for live/active/hot and the top right is for neutral and bottom prong is for earth.

sox35
Hero Member
*****
Online

Gender: Female
Posts: 1259
View Gallery

Mainly the electrical side of things


View Profile Personal Message (Online)
Jan 17, 2018 at 09:43 AM Author: sox35

Yep we have the same design for our standard plug and sockets here. We don't have split phase however so the top left prong is for live/active/hot and the top right is for neutral and bottom prong is for earth.

Those sockets always look upside-down to me

I seem to recall reading somewhere that it's a rule in Australia that all sockets have switches, is that correct..? If so it's a good idea, wish they'd do the same here.

Although I do prefer the fused plugs we have here, apart from the fuse the flexible cord enters from the bottom of the plug in most cases, making it virtually impossible to pull a plug out by the cable, a practice I detest.

I like these ones with built-in RCD protection:

Ria in Aberdeen
It'll be all right in the end, and if it isn't all right, it isn't the end  Smiley

Ash
Hero Member
*****
Offline

Posts: 3717
View Gallery


View Profile Personal Message (Offline)
Jan 18, 2018 at 01:51 AM Author: Ash
To me the best are 2 standards from mainland Europe :

Italy :


Germany :




Upside down ? There is no such thing as upside down. Its AC. There is no reason why the plug should even have an "up" or "down" direction



Switches ?


You can, but making them a rule is a bad idea. Like making a rule of many other things for no reason



Fuses in plugs ?
To protect the line there is the upstream breaker. It does not depend on downstream fuses in appliances

To protect the appliance (for appliances that dont suffice with protection of upstream breaker), place a fuse inside the appliance. If the fuse blew the appliance shorted, if it shorted it is faulty, and if it is faulty you will have to disassemble it to repair it anyway, so might as well replace the fuse



RCD's :

But really, their place is in the panel, as it protects the building wiring too and not only the appliances



Combined socket that accepts both standards :
sox35
Hero Member
*****
Online

Gender: Female
Posts: 1259
View Gallery

Mainly the electrical side of things


View Profile Personal Message (Online)
Jan 18, 2018 at 11:09 AM Author: sox35
It's upside down from an aesthetic point of view to me, but that's not the point. It may be AC, but touch the neutral and nothing will happen. Touch the live and you'll know about it

Also, some devices like to have the live phase in the right place, such as anything with an ES lampholder. Ok so you should design the lamp so it's not possible to touch the shell, but you and I both know that doesn't happen. Plus, with discharge lamps, the live phase should go (via the gear, of course) to the centre terminal of the lamp, in the instruction sheet for my Beta 79 lantern it specifically says this.

If the appliance has a switch, and you can plug the thing in so that switch is in the neutral leg, it's not good practice. You might say fit a DP switch, but manufacturers are often cheapskates and don't do that. Nor do they always put a fuse in the appliance.

I don't like plugs that allow you to pull them out by the cord, which is the main reason I prefer the design of our 13A plugs. I also prefer the ring main system with fused plugs, but then I was brought up and trained on it. If a plug fuse blows, it doesn't take out everything else on that breaker. By the way, the plug fuse isn't there to protect the appliance, it's there to protect the flexible cord between the plug and the appliance.

Ria in Aberdeen
It'll be all right in the end, and if it isn't all right, it isn't the end  Smiley

nogden
Sr. Member
****
Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 382
View Gallery

Nelson Ogden


View Profile Personal Message (Offline)
Jan 18, 2018 at 11:16 AM Author: nogden
These were the first American receptacles for plugs with ground pins. The current American three-prong receptacle and plug didn't come out until a while later. I have an old supply catalog that only lists these; doesn't show the current three prong plug. So in short, its the first American three prong receptacle for standard 120v service with the extra equipment grounding conductor.
Ash
Hero Member
*****
Offline

Posts: 3717
View Gallery


View Profile Personal Message (Offline)
Jan 18, 2018 at 12:10 PM Author: Ash
The main advantage of the plug types that cannot guarantee the position of Phase and Neutral, is that it invalidates the "touch the neutral and nothing will happen" part. There should be no situation in which you (are able to) touch the Neutral

ES (also E14) lamp holders are made so, you cannot touch it when the lamp is fully inserted, and both the shell and center contact disconnect when the lamp is partway out. Many lamp holders actually lose contact on the shell before they lose contact on the center contact, since the shell contact is a flat tab that only makes connection when the lamp is all the way in, while the center contact is springy

The switch on the appliance is there to switch the appliance off so it stops working and using power. It is not a safety device - The appliance must be safe when the switch is on too anyway (in regards to electrical safety, not to moving or hot parts etc)

If the switch is in the Neutral side of an appliance, it will function correctly. All current carrying parts of the appliance are live in the off position, this is not a problem : The appliance is insulated to the same degree on both poles, and no amount of cost cutting the manufacturers would like to apply, would let them skimp on the isolation of the Neutral since they dont know which pole is going to be Neutral. This is effective way to force the manufacturers to do things safely !

Pulling plugs by the cable is bad, so dont do that. The straight plugs are however generally more convenient to use in many cases (to use correctly, without pulling the cable. In some applications one of the plug types will help prevent a sharp bend in the cable, when used in a tight space

On the other hand, when individual 16A circuits are used, there are normally more of them installed so the area tripped is smaller : An area that would be powered by 1 32A ring in the UK, is powered by 2..3 16A circuits
sox35
Hero Member
*****
Online

Gender: Female
Posts: 1259
View Gallery

Mainly the electrical side of things


View Profile Personal Message (Online)
Jan 18, 2018 at 12:14 PM Author: sox35
@ Ash

Everything you say is a valid point, but so are my points. It shouldn't be possible to do a lot of things, like touching live/neutral connections or shells of lamps, but the reality is that that isn't always the case. I prefer to design for idiots.

Ria in Aberdeen
It'll be all right in the end, and if it isn't all right, it isn't the end  Smiley

Ash
Hero Member
*****
Offline

Posts: 3717
View Gallery


View Profile Personal Message (Offline)
Jan 18, 2018 at 02:25 PM Author: Ash
Is there some example of when Neutral is accessible in a (properly made) appliance ?
sox35
Hero Member
*****
Online

Gender: Female
Posts: 1259
View Gallery

Mainly the electrical side of things


View Profile Personal Message (Online)
Jan 18, 2018 at 02:33 PM Author: sox35

Is there some example of when Neutral is accessible in an appliance ?


One that instantly springs to mind is a poorly designed ES lamp fitting where the shell of the lamp IS accessible. It shouldn't be, but it can be, especially in some very badly made stuff from a certain country in the far east. Also, think of small children poking things into accessible spaces. They shouldn't do it, but they do. Which is one of the reasons why I like UK 13A sockets, the phase/neutral receptacles are shuttered.

Like I said, design for idiots.

Ria in Aberdeen
It'll be all right in the end, and if it isn't all right, it isn't the end  Smiley

Ugly1
Jr. Member
**
Offline

Posts: 54
View Gallery

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)
Jan 18, 2018 at 03:49 PM Author: Ugly1
The whole point to the NEMA standardization system is to insure there is a separate pin configuration for each voltage and current rating,and whether there is a ground and/or grounding conductor. The receptacle shown is an old dual rated 10 amp,250 volt, or 15 amp,125 volt. It is not a NEMA 10-20R. The dual rated receptacle was available in two versions. One version had a screw terminal connected to the straight blade. The other version had the straight blade riveted to the strap for grounding. This receptacle could be used as: 250 volt hot,hot,neutral,or 250 volt,hot,hot,ground, or 120 volt hot,neutral,ground,or three phase,hot,hot,hot.
These receptacles were listed in most manufacturers catalogs until about the mid 90's. The Bryant catalog has this note." Wiring devices listed on this page are no longer listed by Underwriters Laboratories Inc., and are intended for replacement use only in existing installations. We recommend that they not be used in new installations. These devices were formerly standard configurations and complied with UL requirements, but can no longer be listed because UL no longer recognizes this receptacle slot configuration."
By the way, the twist lock plug and receptacle used for photoelectric controls is the twist lock equivalent of this staight blade dual rated receptacle,10 amp 250 volt or 15 amp 125 volt.
Mercurylamps
Hero Member
*****
Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 517
View Gallery

240V 50Hz


View Profile Personal Message (Offline)
Jan 18, 2018 at 06:09 PM Author: Mercurylamps

Those sockets always look upside-down to me

I seem to recall reading somewhere that it's a rule in Australia that all sockets have switches, is that correct..? If so it's a good idea, wish they'd do the same here.

Although I do prefer the fused plugs we have here, apart from the fuse the flexible cord enters from the bottom of the plug in most cases, making it virtually impossible to pull a plug out by the cable, a practice I detest.

I like these ones with built-in RCD protection:



Funny, the UK ones look upside-down to me.

Yes, from the very beginning of AS3112 standards our sockets have switches on them. If the socket doesn't have a switch then it must be controlled by a seperate switch. You also get sockets with built in switches that apply power as soon as a plug is inserted and turn off power as soon as it is removed. I haven't seen them in person though.

Yeah I have to admit I prefer the UK design myself. My father came from Scotland in the 70s and brought all his power tools with him fitted with UK plugs. They feel more solid and durable compared to the pathetic thin prongs we have in Australia which can easily be bent if you aren't careful.

We also get the same ones with RCD protection. In fact there is a special 15A socket at the side of the house with built in RCD protection, presumably used for a caravan with the last owner.
Ash
Hero Member
*****
Offline

Posts: 3717
View Gallery


View Profile Personal Message (Offline)
Jan 19, 2018 at 01:58 AM Author: Ash
Whats the point with the switches ?
Mercurylamps
Hero Member
*****
Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 517
View Gallery

240V 50Hz


View Profile Personal Message (Offline)
Jan 19, 2018 at 05:49 AM Author: Mercurylamps
I don't know. Perhaps they thought it was safer, especially as our prongs originally didn't have insulation though they do now. I prefer to have switches than not since I can turn things off at the wall instead.
sox35
Hero Member
*****
Online

Gender: Female
Posts: 1259
View Gallery

Mainly the electrical side of things


View Profile Personal Message (Online)
Jan 19, 2018 at 06:12 AM Author: sox35

I don't know. Perhaps they thought it was safer, especially as our prongs originally didn't have insulation though they do now. I prefer to have switches than not since I can turn things off at the wall instead.

Yes, I'll go along with that. Sometimes it's useful to be able to switch off at the wall without having to unplug. I have a row of 6 sockets above my desk with various things plugged in such as the laptop docking station and monitors etc. If I unplug all that lot it's messy with a pile of plugs on the desk

Ria in Aberdeen
It'll be all right in the end, and if it isn't all right, it isn't the end  Smiley

rjluna2
Sr. Member
****
Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 302
View Gallery

Robert


GoL
View Profile Personal Message (Offline)
Jan 19, 2018 at 06:35 AM Author: rjluna2
I always have pair of power strip on my computer desk. One for the UPS backup line for the critical components and the other is regular line for other connections. I usually turn my everything off when I am done with the computer for the day. I don't trust the soft power button that these modern computers have. Besides, it is always off when there is a power interruption when I have it turned off for the day too

Pretty, please no more Chinese failure.

sox35
Hero Member
*****
Online

Gender: Female
Posts: 1259
View Gallery

Mainly the electrical side of things


View Profile Personal Message (Online)
Jan 19, 2018 at 07:49 AM Author: sox35

I always have pair of power strip on my computer desk. One for the UPS backup line for the critical components and the other is regular line for other connections. I usually turn my everything off when I am done with the computer for the day. I don't trust the soft power button that these modern computers have. Besides, it is always off when there is a power interruption when I have it turned off for the day too

Yes, we're going to be installing some dado rail trunking to house both power sockets and network Ethernet ports soon, we'll be bringing a feed up from the UPS to feed a few sockets then, we'll use these sockets for the UPS-backed supply, the red switches are useful to identify them.

Ria in Aberdeen
It'll be all right in the end, and if it isn't all right, it isn't the end  Smiley

Ash
Hero Member
*****
Offline

Posts: 3717
View Gallery


View Profile Personal Message (Offline)
Jan 19, 2018 at 01:13 PM Author: Ash
I don't know. Perhaps they thought it was safer, especially as our prongs originally didn't have insulation though they do now. I prefer to have switches than not since I can turn things off at the wall instead.

I'd say they were thinking safety. The fault with the logic is, you can't force anyone to switch off the switch before pulling or inserting the plug (ok, you could implement some interlock, but we know this have never been required), so there is no sense in enforcing the presence of the switch in the 1st place

If it would be only the convenience consideration, it would not, or at least should not be in the code. I dont think the code knows any better than the end user about uers's convenience.... Well there are some codes in place to prevent building contractors from being (...)s, such as requiring a minimum of N receptacles per room in a house, but i hardly can see how the switch requirement fits there
sox35
Hero Member
*****
Online

Gender: Female
Posts: 1259
View Gallery

Mainly the electrical side of things


View Profile Personal Message (Online)
Jan 19, 2018 at 01:21 PM Author: sox35
Sometimes sockets without switches are fitted when there really ought to be switches. Making them a requirement would at least mean they were there when they were needed.

An example of where switches should be fitted are when appliances are regularly plugged in and unplugged, such as a cleaner's socket for a vacuum cleaner. I detest unplugging from a live outlet.

You might get away without switches where things are just plugged in and never touched again, such as behind server racks, but personally I'd like the convenience of a switch being present, even if I might never actually use it. The difference in cost of manufacture must be minimal.

Ria in Aberdeen
It'll be all right in the end, and if it isn't all right, it isn't the end  Smiley

Ash
Hero Member
*****
Offline

Posts: 3717
View Gallery


View Profile Personal Message (Offline)
Jan 19, 2018 at 02:00 PM Author: Ash
It is bad practice to plug in/out plugs under significant load. The problem there is the spark made - that at best wears the plug and receptacle, at worst (with a receptacle of bad design) can cause a flashover inside the receptacle

This basically means, switch off the appliance before plugging/unplgging it

For industrial applications above 32A, the problem becomes more significant, so the most advanced plug designs there provide a signalling prong (thinner and shorter than the others). The prong controls a contactor, for disconnecting the load automatically when the plug comes out (even if accidentally) / connecting it only when the plug is fully in



This is not related however to plugging stuff in/out of a live receptacle without load (or with small load) - No load, no spark
Cole D.
Hero Member
*****
Offline

Posts: 791
View Gallery

123 V 60 CPS


Dk944Mr-jX4jbnoUUj7xAw
View Profile Personal Message (Offline)
Jan 20, 2018 at 09:52 AM Author: Cole D.
Sometimes I think it would be nice if we had switched outlets here. It would be safer to unplug/plug items and would be helpful for things that don't have a switch on them. Of course you could use a power strip or plug in switched outlet.

I have an outlet similar to the one in the original post, but mine is duplex and has another regular outlet below it. I have also seem them with both of these outlets.

Collect vintage incandescent and fluorescent fixtures. Also like HID lighting and streetlights.

Ash
Hero Member
*****
Offline

Posts: 3717
View Gallery


View Profile Personal Message (Offline)
Jan 20, 2018 at 09:58 AM Author: Ash
https://www.homedepot.com/p/GE-All-in-One-Toggle-Switch-and-Single-Pole-Outlet-White-59797/203744889
Globe Collector
Newbie
*
Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 26
View Gallery

Preserving the Brightest Ideas of Our Age


View Profile Personal Message (Offline)
Feb 13, 2018 at 09:43 PM Author: Globe Collector
I have a very old, porcelain outlet with this "Australian" configuration but it is made in the United States....thus I realize that our standard is based on the North American one which predates ours. (So we are just a bunch of copiers).

Many who might have been to both the U.K. and U.S. will realize that Australia is an "amalgam" of these two cultures and standards with quite a bit of our own unique character tossed in for good measure.

I am so accustomed, (from an asthetic standpoint and what I am accustomed to) that, like Ria, British outlets look "upside down" to me...but CHINA uses our "Australian" "AS1132 / NEMA-10 20R" style outlets, LIKE THE BRITISH with the earth at the top and side cable entry opposite the Earth pin...i.e. "Upside Down" to an Australian's sensibilities...BUT, think of it, Earth pin at the top is a really good idea, it reduces the chance of anything falling across the lower pins, particularly older British and Australian plugs without the sheathed pins.

For all of us in Australia, New Zealand, China, the United States, ISRAEL, Switzerland, Brazil, Denmark, South Africa, Singapore, Malaysia, India, France and United Kingdom where plugs and outlets are of sufficient asymmetry as to prevent reversal of active and neutral, this philosophy of "switch always on the active side", and E27/40/14 shell ALWAYS on the neutral side will, in my mind at least, NEVER compare to that oddball philosophy of reversible plugs, (like, Italy, Most of Europe, Vietnam etc.) where soft connected loads, i.e. plugged-in appliances can have active and neutral reversed and all the associated issues...like, as Ria says, little kids with paper clips...(Although most of our outlets DON'T have shutters, but some expensive ones do and must be used in child care places) will never hold say in my mind. I have seen this infantile system in my wife's country, Viet Nam, and will never "go in to bat" for it. (Sorry Ash!).

Thailand is a real oddball...three pin plugs cannot be reversed, but two pins can. In France, Switzerland, Denmark, Brazil, United states to some extent with very old stuff, India, South Africa...and most other places where round pins are used, it is possible to reverse two pin plugs...but in the U.S. with modern stuff, U.K., Australia, New Zealand and China it is not possible, so this outlet design is one of the cleverest for small loads <10A.

Manufactured articles should be made to be used, not made to be sold!

Fee, Fye, Fow, Fum, A dead man's eye and a parrot's BUM!

sox35
Hero Member
*****
Online

Gender: Female
Posts: 1259
View Gallery

Mainly the electrical side of things


View Profile Personal Message (Online)
Feb 14, 2018 at 11:23 AM Author: sox35

Thailand is a real oddball...three pin plugs cannot be reversed, but two pins can. In France, Switzerland, Denmark, Brazil, United states to some extent with very old stuff, India, South Africa...and most other places where round pins are used, it is possible to reverse two pin plugs...but in the U.S. with modern stuff, U.K., Australia, New Zealand and China it is not possible, so this outlet design is one of the cleverest for small loads <10A.

The only 2-pin plugs we have here now are those used for shavers, electric toothbrushes and the like. You need an adaptor to plug in to a normal 13A socket, although only dedicated "shaver" outlets, fed via an isolating transformer, are permitted in bathrooms.

They used to be common before the 13A BS1363 system came into use, but there aren't any sockets to take them now. One type I remember from my childhood (and miraculously I survived, after using them for years..!) was this incredible tribute to the Darwin Awards..

Ria in Aberdeen
It'll be all right in the end, and if it isn't all right, it isn't the end  Smiley

Globe Collector
Newbie
*
Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 26
View Gallery

Preserving the Brightest Ideas of Our Age


View Profile Personal Message (Offline)
Feb 15, 2018 at 01:00 AM Author: Globe Collector
The isolation transformer could be a fire hazard if its primary be unswitched.

Here we have two electronics outlets, Jaycar and Duck Smith....the latter has just become defunct. However, when Jaycar first opened in Hobart, c1996, all the electronics blokes were "abuzz" with talk of this "hot" European girl working at Jaycar.

I was building an 800w per channel amplifier at the time and eventually had to visit Jaycar for the first time. I immediately spotted the girl in question and was eventually served by her. I could not resist a guess as to which European country she was from, she replied. "You can try to guess but you will never get it in the first five tries"...I knew however, so I said, "Fra....POLAND!" I said "Fra..." as if I was going to say, "France" then blurted out the word, "Poland". She looked surprised and replied, "You are the first to get it first time, how did you know?" I replied. "When I was a kid, we had Polish neighbors and you look like their daughter!" ...It was a good start and we eventually got to know each other better as I just happened to drink Zywiec beer at the Polish Club, the only place that sold it.

So to cut a long story short, she had moved to a new flat, a ramshackle old place across the street from Errol Flynn's childhood home in the Hobart suburb of Battery Point. Inside, screwed to the architrave of a doorway and covered in about 500 layers of paint was a small transformer....about 20VA I would guess. said to her, "I wonder if this has anything across its primary" so I got out a screwdriver and put the handle to my ear and touched the blade to the core of the transformer, and yep!, there was a 50Hz hum! The house is still there, she moved out years ago and is now married with kids...so that must be one hell of a reliable transformer!

Manufactured articles should be made to be used, not made to be sold!

Fee, Fye, Fow, Fum, A dead man's eye and a parrot's BUM!

sox35
Hero Member
*****
Online

Gender: Female
Posts: 1259
View Gallery

Mainly the electrical side of things


View Profile Personal Message (Online)
Feb 15, 2018 at 04:57 PM Author: sox35

The isolation transformer could be a fire hazard if its primary be unswitched.

They don't usually have switches on. Why would they be a fire hazard..? I've certainly never heard of one catching fire and they're in a LOT of hotel bathrooms amongst other places.

Ria in Aberdeen
It'll be all right in the end, and if it isn't all right, it isn't the end  Smiley

Globe Collector
Newbie
*
Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 26
View Gallery

Preserving the Brightest Ideas of Our Age


View Profile Personal Message (Offline)
Feb 15, 2018 at 05:35 PM Author: Globe Collector
Small transformers with a lot of fine wire on the primary have quite a lot of parasitic resistance which can give rise to I squared R heating...but I guess if the parasitic resistance is very high the power consumption will be low...until some high dv/dt pulse shorts some turns.


Here, in bathrooms and other wet areas, there is a whole raft of regulations. In my bathroom, for example, there is one dual power outlet, but I had to remove it and put a "blind plate" there because the shower, (which sprays into the bathtub) has a curtain. If the shower had fixed aluminium and glass screens the outlet would be allowed!

Any outlets near wet areas must be above the taps or sinks and not be within reach of anybody touching the taps...but, oddly, can be within reach of the drainers of stainless sinks. I think the minimum distance is 1200mm, but it is best not to put outlets in bathrooms at all.

Like the U.K. there are quite a few "pull-Cord" switched appliances in bathrooms.

Manufactured articles should be made to be used, not made to be sold!

Fee, Fye, Fow, Fum, A dead man's eye and a parrot's BUM!

sox35
Hero Member
*****
Online

Gender: Female
Posts: 1259
View Gallery

Mainly the electrical side of things


View Profile Personal Message (Online)
Feb 15, 2018 at 06:00 PM Author: sox35

Small transformers with a lot of fine wire on the primary have quite a lot of parasitic resistance which can give rise to I squared R heating...but I guess if the parasitic resistance is very high the power consumption will be low...until some high dv/dt pulse shorts some turns.


Here, in bathrooms and other wet areas, there is a whole raft of regulations. In my bathroom, for example, there is one dual power outlet, but I had to remove it and put a "blind plate" there because the shower, (which sprays into the bathtub) has a curtain. If the shower had fixed aluminium and glass screens the outlet would be allowed!

Any outlets near wet areas must be above the taps or sinks and not be within reach of anybody touching the taps...but, oddly, can be within reach of the drainers of stainless sinks. I think the minimum distance is 1200mm, but it is best not to put outlets in bathrooms at all.

Like the U.K. there are quite a few "pull-Cord" switched appliances in bathrooms.

Apart from shaver sockets as above, no outlets are permitted in bathrooms here unless they are at least 3m away from the bath or shower, although like you I would never consider fitting them anywhere, whatever the distance. Switches can be fitted, but they have to be the pull-cord type. My mother has them for the light and the electric shower, but here we have the light switch outside the bathroom door and the isolating switch for the shower is in a cupboard next to the door. There is a ceiling mounted 5A BS546 socket feeding the window-mounted extractor fan, but it's well out of anyone's reach and is only running at 12V, fed from a transformer located in the meter cupboard and linked to the lighting circuit so it comes on when the light is switched on. Personally I'd like to have two switches outside the door, one for the light and one for the fan, you don't always want them on together, but the way the wiring is routed it would be a pig to do, so we'll have to put up with it as it is

Ria in Aberdeen
It'll be all right in the end, and if it isn't all right, it isn't the end  Smiley

icefoglights
Hero Member
*****
Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 643
View Gallery

ITT Low Pressure Sodium NEMA


GoL
View Profile Personal Message (Offline)
Feb 15, 2018 at 06:14 PM Author: icefoglights

Those sockets always look upside-down to me

It's common practice in North America to install our outlets with the ground on the bottom, like a face, and similar to the Australian style. However, the technical standard says that they should be installed with the ground on top, and with the wallplate removed, all the writing on the outlet is right side up when installed in this manor.

01010010 01101111 01100010 01100101 01110010 01110100

Globe Collector
Newbie
*
Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 26
View Gallery

Preserving the Brightest Ideas of Our Age


View Profile Personal Message (Offline)
Feb 15, 2018 at 06:57 PM Author: Globe Collector
It does make a lot of sense to have the Earth pin at the top. If a thin sheet of metal were to slide down the wall, it would be stopped by the Earth pin. Unlike U.S. outlets which have a plate fixed over them afterwards, most of ours are all molded in one unit and those that do have a removable plate is for cosmetic purposes only...removing the plate only reveals mounting screws, not the electrical connections so they cannot be turned over.

Like in the U.K., our plugs had been decreed by law to have sleeving around bases of the active and neutral pins. Not sure when this edict came into force, but I'd guess about 15 years ago. I assume we are just copying the U.K. and that they have had sleeved pins for much longer. I know the U.S. has not adopted this practice (yet).

I have seen a plug get shorted out buy a conductive object going under it only once in my life. It happened back in the 1980's at a friend's place in his electronics workshop. His bench had a row of about eight double outlets on blocks on a plank of wood at the back of the bench. They faced up toward the ceiling and all but one had plugs in them, the oscilloscope, soldering iron, signal generator etc., etc. There were no sheathed pins back then. The way they sat at the back of the bench was with the Earth pins at the front, so there was a "sort" of protection. Anyhow, this day, we were using 1N5408 diodes...if you know these, they are 6A diodes with quite thick leads that partially act as heatsinks...well we were snipping the leads down to requirements with side cutters...AND...one piece of lead shot off the cutters and flew straight under a plug at the back of the bench and hinged around the Earth pin and went right between the active and neutral, as they are angled and the gap gets smaller, it got spot-welded in there. It dropped the breaker at the end of the row of outlets INSTANTLY..but what a fluke shot!

And here's one for you Ria,... this will really make your "teeth grind"... the same friend I mention above yanked out the plug of a 10A, 2.4Kw fan heater, by the lead, while it was on! He got it right at the top of the cycle and two arcs came right out of the slots...but, they persisted for long enough to be attracted to each other and "wrap over" into a "horseshoe" and short out the mains....that dropped a 20A breaker in the switchboard and made quite an impressive bang!

While on this topic...we have this wierd thing here in Australia used in bathrooms....The "IXL Tastic", it is a fan/radiant heater that is more marketing hype than actually well thought out practical design and is targeted at replacing nichrome in silica tube radiators and exhaust fans. It sits on the ceiling and the fan...with the shaft mounded vertically, exhausts damp air into the ceiling space, below the fan an R80 reflector lamp provides light and either, two or four 275w R125 heat lamps, the radiant heat. The issue is that it shines straight down and only heats the top of your head. The house I have just moved into has a small two heat lamp model but I will probably go back to the wall mounted nichrome in silica tube radiator because it at least fires in an an angle and gets the side of your body where you want it. Some models of "Tastic" even have 375w lamps in them!

There have even been "knockoff" clones with plastic E27 sockets that melt and the hot lamps drop on poor, unsuspecting plonkers, standing naked beneath them. Mine has plastic sockets, so I whipped them out and put proper ceramic ones in wired with silicone rubber insulated wire.

If you drive through an Australian city in the late evening, you can pick the houses fitted with "Tastics"...their bathroom windows are lit up like the UFO's from "Close Encounters of the Third Kind"!

Manufactured articles should be made to be used, not made to be sold!

Fee, Fye, Fow, Fum, A dead man's eye and a parrot's BUM!

Men of God
Jr. Member
**
Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 98
View Gallery


jiachao.wei.71 chao_813975447 UChyTpXvlQ8ZCfBPP_lJjubg chao990613
View Profile Personal Message (Offline)
Feb 16, 2018 at 02:30 AM Author: Men of God
中华人民共和国就是你这样的插座!

我不会英文,所以我用中文,请你们用翻译网站翻译我打的字!

I can't in English, so I in Chinese, please use the translation website to translate my words!

Globe Collector
Newbie
*
Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 26
View Gallery

Preserving the Brightest Ideas of Our Age


View Profile Personal Message (Offline)
Feb 16, 2018 at 04:09 AM Author: Globe Collector
Translation of the above text...

People's Republic of China is your socket!

(Second "translation")

This is the same socket as we use here in the People's Republic of China!

Manufactured articles should be made to be used, not made to be sold!

Fee, Fye, Fow, Fum, A dead man's eye and a parrot's BUM!

icefoglights
Hero Member
*****
Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 643
View Gallery

ITT Low Pressure Sodium NEMA


GoL
View Profile Personal Message (Offline)
Feb 16, 2018 at 05:08 PM Author: icefoglights

Apart from shaver sockets as above, no outlets are permitted in bathrooms here unless they are at least 3m away from the bath or shower, although like you I would never consider fitting them anywhere, whatever the distance. Switches can be fitted, but they have to be the pull-cord type. My mother has them for the light and the electric shower, but here we have the light switch outside the bathroom door and the isolating switch for the shower is in a cupboard next to the door. There is a ceiling mounted 5A BS546 socket feeding the window-mounted extractor fan, but it's well out of anyone's reach and is only running at 12V, fed from a transformer located in the meter cupboard and linked to the lighting circuit so it comes on when the light is switched on. Personally I'd like to have two switches outside the door, one for the light and one for the fan, you don't always want them on together, but the way the wiring is routed it would be a pig to do, so we'll have to put up with it as it is

The switches for most bathroom lights here are usually inside the bathroom next to the door, but it's not unheard of to have them outside as well. The house I grew up in had the switch for the vanity light outside the door, while the switch for the extractor fan and a ceiling mounted radiant heater were inside the door I later lived in a house where the bathroom was lit with fluorescent wraparound fixture that used a pull string switch. The owner had me take that out, install a pair of conventional vanity lights on either side of the mirror and an extractor fan in the ceiling where the fluorescent light used to be. Conventional switches were mounted next to the primary door (this bathroom had two doors leading into it).


While on this topic...we have this wierd thing here in Australia used in bathrooms....The "IXL Tastic", it is a fan/radiant heater that is more marketing hype than actually well thought out practical design and is targeted at replacing nichrome in silica tube radiators and exhaust fans. It sits on the ceiling and the fan...with the shaft mounded vertically, exhausts damp air into the ceiling space, below the fan an R80 reflector lamp provides light and either, two or four 275w R125 heat lamps, the radiant heat. The issue is that it shines straight down and only heats the top of your head. The house I have just moved into has a small two heat lamp model but I will probably go back to the wall mounted nichrome in silica tube radiator because it at least fires in an an angle and gets the side of your body where you want it. Some models of "Tastic" even have 375w lamps in them!

I've seen similar heat lamps in bathrooms here. Most take a single R40 type heat lamp, though some may have a second socket for an R38 bulb for regular lighting. They work OK. My bathroom actually has a "3 in one" vent/heat/light unit recessed into the ceiling, but the heater is fan forced. It works quite well. The house I grew up in (mentioned above) originally had a 1000 watt radiant heater mounted on the ceiling (which was a compressed paper fiber like material). It was disconnected as far back as I could remember. Apparently at some point in time, my parents had a scare, where the heater got left on and the bathroom door ended up being shut and locked (everyone locked out). They ended up breaking off the knob (which explained why the bathroom had a different knob than the other rooms) to get back in and shut it off. It was later disconnected and it's circuit breaker space was re-purposed for a outdoor outlet for block heaters.

01010010 01101111 01100010 01100101 01110010 01110100

Globe Collector
Newbie
*
Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 26
View Gallery

Preserving the Brightest Ideas of Our Age


View Profile Personal Message (Offline)
Feb 16, 2018 at 10:29 PM Author: Globe Collector
Geez, I wonder how the door got locked with nobody inside? Maybe somebody locked the door form the inside, then jumped out the window...seem's like a "not so funny" kids' prank, I could not imagine an adult going to so much trouble to attempt to burn the house down.

At my previous place there was a 1Kw bar radiator on the wall with a pull cord...my nephew from Viet Nam stayed with us and consistently left it on and either my wife, Thanh or I would go in there hours later after it had burned up a dollar or two worth of electricity. He also habitually turned it on even when the temperature was in excess of 25*C (77*F) ....in Viet Nam they simply don't need such things in the tropical heat....over there you just shower under cold water with no hot water at all...although now, with modern air conditiond highrises going up all over Saigon some places now do have hot water.

Manufactured articles should be made to be used, not made to be sold!

Fee, Fye, Fow, Fum, A dead man's eye and a parrot's BUM!

icefoglights
Hero Member
*****
Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 643
View Gallery

ITT Low Pressure Sodium NEMA


GoL
View Profile Personal Message (Offline)
Feb 16, 2018 at 10:48 PM Author: icefoglights
The original knobs had a simple push lock that weren't terribly hard to bump and lock, especially if getting into the cabinets behind the door. The exhaust fan couldn't be used in the winter, so after taking a shower, the door would be left shut until the water vapor had time to settle out, or else it would sometimes set off the smoke detector (problem later solved by moving the smoke detector).

01010010 01101111 01100010 01100101 01110010 01110100

Ash
Hero Member
*****
Offline

Posts: 3717
View Gallery


View Profile Personal Message (Offline)
Feb 17, 2018 at 06:47 AM Author: Ash
Do you have any of the newer "push through transparent Silicone cover" sort of switches over there ? They provide good separation between your wet hands and the switch handle

Over here, the doorknob/lock mechanism in most older doors have a common flaw : The link between the door knob/lock and the latch is thin and made of some fragile Aluminum alloy (i think it might have Magnesium in it too). If the door gets slammed, or sometimes just with age, the thing snaps and the handle or key will move freely without opening the door. Most doors in this house got locked like that at least once, with or without people locked in the room
Lodge
Hero Member
*****
Offline

Posts: 878
View Gallery

18W Goldeye / 52W R&C LED front door lighting


View Profile Personal Message (Offline)
Feb 17, 2018 at 08:55 PM Author: Lodge

Do you have any of the newer "push through transparent Silicone cover" sort of switches over there ? They provide good separation between your wet hands and the switch handle

Over here, the doorknob/lock mechanism in most older doors have a common flaw : The link between the door knob/lock and the latch is thin and made of some fragile Aluminum alloy (i think it might have Magnesium in it too). If the door gets slammed, or sometimes just with age, the thing snaps and the handle or key will move freely without opening the door. Most doors in this house got locked like that at least once, with or without people locked in the room


And that just happened to me last week, on the front door, the key was fine but the little piece of pot metal (junk) broke inside the lock, it was a good job I had the back door key or I would be been outside in -20 weather with the drill removing the lock to get into a warm house, I like how they can use stainless and brass for all the parts you can see, but cheap out on all the parts that actually matter..
lifeguard
Newbie
*
Offline

Posts: 7
View Gallery

I like stuffed animals.


UCyIrG0EIp_p0mrj2TXioGrg
View Profile Personal Message (Offline)
Oct 16, 2019 at 10:42 PM Author: lifeguard
I believe this is 50's and the model is 6051. There's this receptacle but it's a Hubbell in the package

Collecting lamps is a side hobby but I think it's cool nonetheless.

lifeguard
Newbie
*
Offline

Posts: 7
View Gallery

I like stuffed animals.


UCyIrG0EIp_p0mrj2TXioGrg
View Profile Personal Message (Offline)
Oct 23, 2019 at 09:57 PM Author: lifeguard
This is most likely 50's or 40's actually. This is a australian style and they used some single receptacles sideways. As those that are sideways fit standard single plates.

Collecting lamps is a side hobby but I think it's cool nonetheless.

© 2005-2019 Lighting-Gallery.net | Powered by: Coppermine Photo Gallery