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Spectrum of Dor's Aqua-Light 70w 10,000K from ADL

Spectrum of Dor's Aqua-Light 70w 10,000K from ADL

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Here you see the spectrum of Dor's Aqua Light 10K metal halide "cut and shut" with some Mercury and Dysprosium reference spectra pulled off the Internet with the "Screen Dump" process and edited with MS Paint.

CRC's Handbook of Chemistry and Physics 62nd Edition was also used to referen ce the more intense Dysprosium lines on pages E226 and E227 so that scales could be fitted to the previously scaleless Dysprosium Spectra.

One of the Mercury spectra is synthetic and both of the Dysprosium spectra are synthetic.

Finally...phew!...Dor's spectra are of high enough resolution to perform this type of analysis on and reveal some useful data.

In this case I'd say I have identified enough lines of Dysprosium matching b etween Dor's lamp and the references to conclude that this lamp does indeed contain Dysprosium Iodide.

Some unidentified spectral lines remain in the lamp's spectrum that suggest either another Lanthanide element or Caesium "arc fattner" or both.

This process needs to be performed again against the spectrum of Gadolinium, (the next most likely element), but as this took over two hours...it won't be me doing it!

and20identified20lines20Shut20with20Dysprosium2002.JPG PFC2.gif 256nm20Sterilizer20from20Junk.jpg HgDG-IMG-09r.jpg

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Album name:Globe Collector / Miscelaneous Lamp related stuff
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Date added:Oct 24, 2020
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dor123
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Oct 24, 2020 at 07:16 AM Author: dor123
I think there should be other rare-earth, as dysprodium can't produces 10000K. Most MH lamps with CCT higher than 6500K either contains dysprosium-thallium-indium or a high dose of indium with a very wide self-reversed line (As with US aquarium MH lamps).

I"m don't speak English well, and rely on online translating to write in this site.
Please forgive me if my choice of my words looks like offensive, while that isn't my intention.

I only working with the European date format (dd.mm.yyyy).

I lives in Israel, which is a 230-240V, 50hz country.

Max
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Oct 24, 2020 at 08:11 AM Author: Max
The unknown additional RE additive could be holmium or (unlikely) neodymium. The latter is used primarily by the Japanese in their high-CCT MH lamps, so I would put my money on Ho.
dor123
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Oct 24, 2020 at 08:52 AM Author: dor123
Holmium also presents in my Osram HQT-TS 70W/WDL Excellence and my Philips MHN-TD 70W/730 Essential together with dysprosium and thulium. Holmium and dysprosium together can't produce 10000K.

I"m don't speak English well, and rely on online translating to write in this site.
Please forgive me if my choice of my words looks like offensive, while that isn't my intention.

I only working with the European date format (dd.mm.yyyy).

I lives in Israel, which is a 230-240V, 50hz country.

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Oct 24, 2020 at 09:00 AM Author: Max
Those lamps you mention also contain sodium in large quantity, and that's why they have a low CCT... not to mention thallium iodide, which absorbs in the blue end of the spectrum.
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Oct 24, 2020 at 02:34 PM Author: lights*plus
Damn that's a ton of work! I can see familiar numbers for Hg and Li for the nanometers marked @ the top. Because I've never had figures for Dy, what are the +/- errors in nm? These are from Handbook of Chemistry and Physics 62nd Edition?
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Oct 24, 2020 at 02:41 PM Author: lights*plus
Also, from what I've come across, many metal-halide lamps, including standard Na-Hg-Sc North American lamps, contain cesium-iodide as a stabilizing ingredient and to "fatten" the arc, as stated in description.
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Oct 24, 2020 at 06:44 PM Author: Globe Collector
George, the error bars on these spectra would be about +/-3nm, but as I had to stretch some images to fit, the errors will be different in different parts of the spectrum...but not more than 3nm off at the worst.

The greatest source of error is the actual stretching to fit when you "cut and shut" and without a wavelength scale you are looking for the best fit of lines and positioning of known wavelengths.

The problem with those Wiki synthetic spectra is that very feint lines are shown as much more intense than they really are...there is no graded intensity scale, it is just black or 100% screen intensity at the specific colour... so distinguishing the real intense lines from the "grass" if feint lines is much more difficult and a source of significant error.

The other synthetic spectrum with the continuum background is basically shut...as you say George...why the continuum background to reduce the contrast and sink all the weak lines into the noise floor?...really we want to see the most intense lines but use some of the weaker ones as positioners or "landmarks".

I think these synthetic spectra have been "cooked up" by school teachers to use on those student assignment question help sites and as such are not really about solving any Real World problems but rather squeezing as many students through the "saussage machine" as possible....which is actually very worrying because if the Internet answers all their assignment questions...they learn nothing! But school teachers do have this general fault in that they teach stuff that a great majority of them don't really understand well or beyond what the textbook might contain...but, more importantly...they don't know why they are teaching it or what it is used for or applied to...and this has pretty serious ramifications for us all in the long run. But I digress...back to the Dysprosium...

The main Dysprosium lines, those with relative intensities over 10,000 arbitrary units (from CRC 62nd Ed.) {and ignoring shutloads of UV-A lines we can't see} are:-

364.540nm 11,000
394.468nm 10,000
396.839nm 14,000
400.045nm 8,000
404.957nm 12,000
418.682nm 12,000
421.172nm 16,000


...and that is all above 10,000 (I put in the 400nm one because of its significance at the shortest end of what we can see), and note the significant figures they have been measured to.

If one reduces the threshold intensity by an order of magnitude to 1000 then these lines appear, (not listing those shorter than 421nm).

421.318nm 1800
421.515nm 3700
421.809nm 4400
422.111nm 4400
422.516nm 2700
430.863nm 1000
458.936nm 2100


...and that's it...all BLUE, hence the high CCT

If we reduce by another order of magnitude to 100, but, again not listing any shorter than 458nm:-

461.226nm 990
462.003nm 140
466.466nm 110
473.184nm 170
477.579nm 120
495.734nm 480
504.263nm 160
512.004nm 130
513.960nm 190
516.969nm 110
519.286nm 290
526.056nm 130
530.158nm 160
563.950nm 100
597.449nm 120
598.856nm 140
608.826nm 140
616.843nm 100
625.909nm 270
657.937nm 160
683.542nm 160
820.157nm 100

...so these are the ones that 'poke up" above the fine grass of other lines. All in all the CRC lists 667 spectral lines for Dysprosium between 235 and 885nm with relative intensities as low as 11. This is far more detail and resolution than us lamp collectors will probably ever need...(besides James and Max of course) but it is an impressive body of work considering it goes on for 121 pages for every element and occupies about 5% the thickness of the whole book! This book is definitely worth it's weight in Cocky Poo!

So, generally speaking, Dysprosium has a great many spectral lines that are closely spaced and largely beyond the resolution of any of the measuring equipment we have access to and it is definitely more intense, (i.e. more radiant flux) at the U.V.-A, Violet and blue end, but tailing off into the red.

What I seem to see is that we notice those spectral lines that stand out from the relative darkness either side of them, so it is not the relative intensity that is so important, but that a noticeable line stands out sharply against its immediate background...this is speaking from the point of view of element identification not CCT.

If you look carefully at the spectrum...and sorry about the low res, but the original bitmap was too big for the server and I had to upload it as a crappy .jpg.....some of the red and orange lines of the Dysprosium actually stand out or are quenched so low they are not visible at all...so as I'm sure Max would tell you...if he had the time and inclination...that in a plasma containing lots of different atomic of excited molecular species, energy transfers do occur where one excited species has an excitation energy just geater than some other species in the plasma soup...so if these collide, one transfers its energy to the other non-radiatively and this is how spectral lines can be quenched from the radiant flux of a source.


Actually, here';s something nobody has ever done here on Lighting Gallery....measure the spectra of glowbottle starters!


Oh, Max...a shout out to you and thanks for the very valued comments, I appreciate it!

Manufactured articles should be made to be used, not made to be sold!

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Oct 24, 2020 at 07:06 PM Author: Globe Collector
Just thought I chuck this URL in here:-

https://spektrus.software.informer.com/

This program, Spektrus, was written by a Polish chap...Mikolaj Pytel about 15 years ago..it takes all that data from CRC and turns it into synthetic spectra...it is actually quite useful.

Mikolaj Pytel went on to work in a bank and lost his interest in spectroscopy....such a pity that this great mind was lost to "pencil-pusherisim"!

Manufactured articles should be made to be used, not made to be sold!

Fee, Fye, Fow, Fum, A dead man's eye and a parrot's BUM!

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Nov 12, 2020 at 08:04 PM Author: Binarix128

Just thought I chuck this URL in here:-

https://spektrus.software.informer.com/

This program, Spektrus, was written by a Polish chap...Mikolaj Pytel about 15 years ago..it takes all that data from CRC and turns it into synthetic spectra...it is actually quite useful.

Mikolaj Pytel went on to work in a bank and lost his interest in spectroscopy....such a pity that this great mind was lost to "pencil-pusherisim"!

That program looks very useful for learning spectral emotions! Is that program really safe for installing in my main machine?

LED will never beat other lamps. :inc: :hps: :mv:
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