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Good old T12 Sylvania IRS and Philips TL-M times in Dutch 'apekop' train.

Good old T12 Sylvania IRS and Philips TL-M times in Dutch 'apekop' train.

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Dutch train with lots of T12 Instant Rapid start lights. They are out of service sinds last year after 50 years of working. They where also installed in public busses in the past. There is a video on YouTube from the train where you can sometimes see the lights. https://youtu.be/ngAJFj9CET0

2A1638D7-A045-4116-88C1-1873CAE935B9.jpeg 69015415-BA36-4423-9471-F0AE93A9995B.jpeg IMG_3933.PNG IMG_3932.JPG

Light Information

Light Information

Lamp
Lamp Type:T12 Sylvania irs and Philips tl-m

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Filename:IMG_3933.PNG
Album name:SOXman / Fluorescent Lights
Keywords:Lamps
File Size:166 KB
Date added:Sep 30, 2017
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DateTime Original:2017:09:30 19:25:08
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James
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Oct 01, 2017 at 02:33 AM Author: James
Always something special about seeing old T12 lights on vehicles, especially the types of control gear and special tubes that were used to overcome the ignition problems and fluctuating supply voltage.

Incidentally CP Lighting in UK is selling off its stock of the super-rare Philips TL-R lamps, which contain two parallel internal ignition stripes. These were mainly used on older trams and buses with a DC power supply. See http://www.cp-lighting.co.uk/TLR20W-33-2-20W-2-X-M-S
SOXman
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Oct 01, 2017 at 03:17 AM Author: SOXman
@James Yeah, I wonder how the control gear looks like on those trains.

Oh yeah I see, didn't know there where TL-R lights from philips. I like the thing about DC voltage, switching the polarity. Are they working the same as TL-S? Because they look the same only the TL-S have one start strip inside. The lamp foot is also R18s.
Last Friday I've buy 11 Philips TL-S 20W 33-640 in a second hands store for a total of €8,- and brand new in original packing. I like second hands stores

Oh and I also found a eBay site who sell those TL-R lights: http://www.ebay.ie/itm/Philips-TLR-20W-33-Fluorescent-Tube-Lamp-Light-Bulb-20W-R18s-Double-Ended-24/161447717453
James
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Oct 01, 2017 at 03:51 AM Author: James
TL-R is basically like a symmetrical TL-S. Whereas in TL-S there is one stripe that it connected directly to one electrode and there is a gap at the other end, TL-R has a second stripe that is connected with the opposite polarity. That enables the lamp to strike on DC whichever way around it is installed in the luminaire (TL-S only works on DC one way around).

Due to the effects of cataphoresis the mercury all ends up at one end of the lamp on DC. It takes a few tens of hours to migrate, and then only one end of the tube glows brightly. Therefore TL-R lamps used to be lit via special rotating 4-way switches with two off and two on positions, the polarity being opposite for the two On positions. This endures that each time the lamp is lit, the polarity is invertes and so long as it isn't burned continuously for too long, there is no problem!
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Oct 01, 2017 at 06:49 PM Author: Alights
I wonder if they had a shimmering effect at all from running on DC
James
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Oct 01, 2017 at 11:25 PM Author: James
Good question. They seem to be absolutely stable, but I have never run one for very long on DC. I will take one into work today and leave it running for a few days or until its shows complete mercury migration to one end, and see how it behaves over time.
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Oct 01, 2017 at 11:55 PM Author: SOXman
That's sounds like a good idea. Make some pics after
So if they use DC power they use TLR lights. I like the technical stuff and ideas from the beginning of fluorescent lights without electronica.
So the driver must switch the lights with his turn-switch but if the train is driving non stop for 24h or so he must think about turn the switch sometimes. Cool job he has, thinking about the lights
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Oct 15, 2017 at 02:07 AM Author: TL buis
These were the good old trains!!! In Amsterdam port there are standing more than 50 trains like these ( For scrap or sold??). In my youth I can remember that they used the TL-M 40 and 20 W colour 32. Later on they changed it to colour 83/830.
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Jan 31, 2018 at 05:59 AM Author: SOXman
@TL buis Yeah, I missing these trains because of the fluorescent lights :p
I’ve uploaded something like a fluorescent converter, think it’s used in trains or busses..
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Feb 15, 2018 at 05:07 AM Author: trojmiejski
That fluorescent converter probably was used in locomotive hauled carriages which have 24V installation. According to this: http://www.railwiki.nl/index.php/V_-_Treinstellen_Plan_V
Those Apekop trains have 145V lighting installation. I'm not sure how those tubes are powered, could be similar converters, just for 145V instead of 24V. Maybe some central rotary converter is used.
Overall to power 40W tubes you need 220V or more, no matter if DC or AC. On trams it is possible to connect lighting directly to high voltage DC (600V or 750V) collected from catenary, only a resistor and polarity switching mechanism is needed. In low voltage applications like in buses or trains you need some converter. The only exception are TL-C tubes, they are described here: http://www.extra.research.philips.com/hera/people/aarts/_Philips%20Bound%20Archive/PTechReview/PTechReview-18-1956_57-011.pdf
This article also mentions what is needed when you want to use normal TL tubes or TL-M tubes. Later designs used transistor based individual converters like those that you have. Before the advent of transistor converters, different central converters were used. The simplest were motor-alternator sets which were characterised by low efficiency. Alternative method was to use centrifugal converters. Those converters generated 220V 100Hz and fixtures had more or less classical layout with choke (although dedicated for 100Hz frequency) and starter. I do not know much about NS rolling stock but I managed to find old photos of now historical carriages with fluorescent starters:
http://www.geheugenvannederland.nl/nl/geheugen/view/werkplaats%20rijtuig?coll=ngvn&maxperpage=36&page=1&query=rijtuig&identifier=SPOOR01%3AKB-FOTO-11038
http://www.geheugenvannederland.nl/nl/geheugen/view/werkplaats%20rijtuig?coll=ngvn&maxperpage=36&page=1&query=rijtuig&identifier=SPOOR01%3AKB-FOTO-11039
http://www.geheugenvannederland.nl/nl/geheugen/view/minimap?identifier=SPOOR01%3AKB-FOTO-11005
http://www.geheugenvannederland.nl/nl/geheugen/view/werkplaats%20kapotte%20tl%20verlichting%20trein?coll=ngvn&maxperpage=36&page=1&query=tl&identifier=SPOOR01%3AKB-FOTO-11068
Plan K carriages had those 220V 100Hz centrifugal converters:
http://sleutelspoor.nl/projecten/plan-k/
http://www.seinarm.nl/staal/plank.aspx
I also found that Plan D carriages had 110V 400Hz lighting but this is the only info that I have:
http://www.seinarm.nl/staal/pland.aspx
http://www.martijnhaman.nl/pland_NSAB7709.htm
http://photobucket.com/gallery/user/janw1/media/bWVkaWFJZDo2ODQxNTYyNA==/?ref=
I don't know any films which present the startup of such lighting in NS rolling stock but I've found a film which present the startup of 25W lighting in double decker carriages with 220V 500Hz motor-alternator set made in East Germany for Czechoslovakian railways:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t94Zbe-7bLM
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