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Gloomy Doberlug

Gloomy Doberlug


The pretty new lighting in the centre of Doberlug, run in dimmed mode which makes things really bad. When approaching from the "conventionally" lit street (widely spaced poles, perhaps even with 150 watts lamps) first only the double row of all the glowing HPS lamps is obvious. When coming closer the appearance is such that all the surroundings are indistinct in the gloom. The photo reproduces this ghostly atmosphere quite well.

Such a combination of HPS lamps and the hailed dimmer technology appears to be the worst possible scenario in streetlighting, also because, if I understand it right, dimming indeed narrows down the spectrum of HPS lamps, thus decreases their already poor colour rendering further. So it appears to be not only a perceived thing but real.

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Filename:Dscf4124_640.jpg
Album name:kai / Night scenes
Keywords:Miscellaneous
File Size:47 KB
Date added:Nov 20, 2011
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boris
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Nov 20, 2011 at 09:22 AM Author: boris
Why use HPS lighting in residential areas anyway, when there are many light sources available which are just as efficient, but provide nice white light?

And no, I do not mean LED.

Edit: I forgot to mention that I really like your long-exposure photos. They capture the glare really nicely.
kai
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Nov 20, 2011 at 10:01 AM Author: kai
One could get an impression that for certain departments simply no other light sources exist. Some time ago, when the forum of strassenlicht.de was not a closed shop for "authorized persons" yet, I saw there a lament about 50 watts being the smallest available HPS lamp size. Well, these dimmer systems which recently started to spread like wildfire apparently brought a solution for this issue
boris
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Nov 20, 2011 at 10:08 AM Author: boris
Why dim a 50W HPS when you can install a 36W PL-L light...
Ash
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Nov 20, 2011 at 10:12 AM Author: Ash
Our vision and mind are excellent at completing missing information in the scene we see

With HPS this is achieved at some minimum light level, where you can see minimum amount of detail and some shades. In this case the scene will generally look good in person regardless of how it does on a picture (HPS will always look more gloomy on pictures because the completion does not work from a picture)

When there is blatantly not enough light - dimmed 50W lamp used where full power 100W lamp would be appropriate...., our mind "gives up" the processing and the visible information of the scene remains incomplete, which basically is the gloomy feeling itself

With wide spectrum light sources (the CRI is not important) that have atleast few widely spaced peaks - so basically MV, the completion works down to very low (sub 1 Lux) light levels

While the gloom in Lumens from a barely sufficient small lamp is the same for MV and HPS - except it is White and not Orange, it does not appear as bad - the completion process does its job. In turn this allows to lower the light levels even more before it feels gloomy to the viewer

Therefore in such dark places you can use mercs of even less watts and still have better visibility. Metal halide is an option too, more efficient but requires more maintenance
AngryHorse
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Nov 20, 2011 at 10:31 AM Author: AngryHorse
Ash you have a very good point there, white light does look brighter than coloured light, (i.e, low and high pressure sodium lamps), even though the efficiency is not as high.
I have notest this in my yard; I have at the bottom of my garden an 18watt SOX lamp running at 1800 lumens, and down the fence, to the left, an 11watt CFL running at 600 lumens, but to the human eye at night, the CFL looks brighter.

Current: UK 230V, 50Hz
Power provider: e.on energy
Street lighting in our town: Philips UniStreet LED

"Beauty fades, dumb is forever".......Judge Judy Cheesy

dor123
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Nov 20, 2011 at 12:05 PM Author: dor123
LinearSLI/H: This is an unusual high contrast. Since a PL-S of 11W is much less than the SOX 18W in term of lm/w, and despite this, you see your PL-S 11W (There are no energy saving CFLs of 11W) brighter and with higher intensity than your SOX 18W at night.
Each person have different level of night vision, and you have an excellent night vision.
I think i have very poor night vision, as i see hard with lanterns with 80W MV, but see better with HPS lanterns of 100W. The HPS looks more intense to me than the MV, even at night.
I also see a blue light blurry.

I"m don't speak English well, and rely on online translating to write in this site.
Please forgive me if my choice of my words looks like offensive, while that isn't my intention.

I only working with the European date format (dd.mm.yyyy).

I lives in Israel, which is a 230-240V, 50hz country.

Ash
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Nov 20, 2011 at 01:14 PM Author: Ash
HPS (am not familiar with LPS to tell about it) is great for floodlighting and for general lighting above some minimum level, at which completion works. It really does cover most applications in which HPS was ever used

But in the places where there is even less lighting wanted, MH, fluorescent and deluxe MV would work well for Dor too as they have higher content in the warm colors
kai
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Nov 20, 2011 at 03:36 PM Author: kai
@boris: In fact the city of Cottbus does exactly this when replacing RSL 1 lanterns, cf. here.

And the Wikipedia article about the so-called mesopic vision now quotes from a paper (linked there) that with white light in low level lighting a still superior performance can be achieved with as little as half the wattage of a HPS installation. One must conclude that this circumstance is widely unknown amongst lighting engineers.
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Nov 20, 2011 at 04:01 PM Author: monkeyface
We as a manufacturer for streetlights did allready some tests with daylight + green LEDs to see which light level we really need on our streets. However there is no standard and no knowledge about how to make appropriate lighting calculations with them.
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