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Unknown Shop Light *working ballast?*

Unknown Shop Light *working ballast?*

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Roadside fixture.

20170517_135452[1].jpg lum.png adv.png mag.png

Light Information

Light Information

Fixture
Fixture Type:2 F40T12 Shoplight
Ballast Type:Residential Rapid Start
Socket Type:T8/T12
Physical/Production
Application/Use:Garage, shed, and workshop lighting.

File information

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Filename:adv.png
Album name:High Intensity / Rescued Light fixtures
Keywords:Lanterns
File Size:4591 KB
Date added:May 10, 2017
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nicksfans
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May 10, 2017 at 03:59 PM Author: nicksfans
That light's a little older than I thought.

I like my lamps thick, my ballasts heavy, and my fixtures tough.

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Robert


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May 10, 2017 at 04:39 PM Author: rjluna2
Were you able to read the date stamp under the ballast?

Pretty, please no more Chinese failure.

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May 10, 2017 at 04:51 PM Author: High Intensity
Not yet but as soon as i get the ballast out i will post the datecode.

Old lighting is, and will always be, the best lighting.

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May 10, 2017 at 05:01 PM Author: High Intensity
Datecode:
5 8 2
0 2 7
2 8 T G

Old lighting is, and will always be, the best lighting.

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May 10, 2017 at 05:02 PM Author: nicksfans
May 1982.

I like my lamps thick, my ballasts heavy, and my fixtures tough.

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GoL
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May 10, 2017 at 05:03 PM Author: High Intensity
Thank you.
That was fast.

Old lighting is, and will always be, the best lighting.

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May 11, 2017 at 09:28 AM Author: rjluna2
Cool

Pretty, please no more Chinese failure.

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May 11, 2017 at 07:19 PM Author: streetlight98
Interesting. too bad it's dead. From what I understand it's not super uncommon for Advances to just go out cold though. GEs tend to overheat and leak at EOL (at least from what I've seen) and Universal ballasts I've seen fail seem to struggle to start the lamps as they age. I have a couple of Universals that have slowly been struggling to start lamps. They work better with Sylvania lamps than GEs (they won't even start GEs in mot cases!) and now one of them is starting to have issues with the Sylvania tubes too. The GEs don't matter if they're EcoLux or circa-1990. Something in the GE lamps must make them harder to start or at least not agree with the 70s Therm-O-Matic Universals... (yes the ballasts have a good solid ground BTW. At first I thought that was the issue, so I sanded a portion of the ballast case down and sandwiched the ground between the sanded part of the ballast case and the fixture channel and it wasn't any better than no ground at all. Touching the lamps doesn't help either.

To resist is to piss in the wind, anyone who does will end up smelling.

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May 11, 2017 at 07:23 PM Author: nicksfans
In my experience also, Advances will often just quit, unless they're the Mark series ballasts from the early 80s to the early 90s, in which case they'll take longer and longer to start the lamps (and the lamps will get dimmer and dimmer) until they stop starting at all.

I like my lamps thick, my ballasts heavy, and my fixtures tough.

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May 11, 2017 at 11:38 PM Author: High Intensity
The ballast can somewhat run the lamps but the lamps are really dim.

Old lighting is, and will always be, the best lighting.

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May 11, 2017 at 11:52 PM Author: nicksfans
Sounds like a failing capacitor for sure.

I like my lamps thick, my ballasts heavy, and my fixtures tough.

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GoL
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May 11, 2017 at 11:52 PM Author: High Intensity
I found that one of three things happen when i turn on the fixture...
One: both lamps will start but run dim.
Two: one lamp will start but run dim.
Three: the fixture will run like normal.

Old lighting is, and will always be, the best lighting.

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May 11, 2017 at 11:54 PM Author: nicksfans
Very interesting. I'm not sure I've had one do that. It may be worth making sure the pins are making good contact with the sockets.

I like my lamps thick, my ballasts heavy, and my fixtures tough.

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suzukir123
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May 12, 2017 at 02:49 AM Author: suzukir122
I agree with NicksFans. Either that or maybe the wires aren't properly connected/inserted into the
sockets or something.

Interests
1. Motorcycles, Women, and Lighting (especially fluorescent)
2. Weighting/staying extremely athletic
3. Severe Thunderstorms of all kinds
4. Food and drinks. So gimme them bbq ribs
Yep
Lighting has been a passion of mine since I was born. I consider everyone on LG to be a friend

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May 12, 2017 at 02:59 AM Author: High Intensity
When it's running, if i just cut the power for a few seconds it will stop working and not work for hours.
FYI: I did need to replace one of the sockets because it was smashed.

Old lighting is, and will always be, the best lighting.

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May 12, 2017 at 03:07 AM Author: funkybulb
Also wires can go broken too since it solid wire,


Most of dim out on advances and unversials are cap going bad
Esp the 80s. Advance ballast.

No LED gadgets, spins too slowly.  Gotta  love preheat and MV. let the lights keep my meter spinning.

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May 12, 2017 at 03:12 AM Author: High Intensity
The fixture was not running at all when i had GE lamps in it but now i have philips lamps in it and it seems to have a better chance of starting but not every time.

Old lighting is, and will always be, the best lighting.

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May 12, 2017 at 03:16 AM Author: suzukir122
When it stops running, does it stop running like completely? Or is there just dim flickering?
It sounds like either a bad ground, bad contact with pins, or bad connection with the wires lol
While the fixture is having trouble starting up, make sure all four electrode filaments inside
each lamp end are heating. If they all are heating, then pin contact and wire connection to the
sockets should be alright... and if that's the case maybe it's a bad ground, or bad ballast. lol

Interests
1. Motorcycles, Women, and Lighting (especially fluorescent)
2. Weighting/staying extremely athletic
3. Severe Thunderstorms of all kinds
4. Food and drinks. So gimme them bbq ribs
Yep
Lighting has been a passion of mine since I was born. I consider everyone on LG to be a friend

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May 12, 2017 at 03:20 AM Author: High Intensity
Because someone cut the original cord off i had to put a new one on but thinking about it now, i forgot to ground the fixture.

Old lighting is, and will always be, the best lighting.

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May 12, 2017 at 03:25 AM Author: suzukir122
That is likely the issue lol... which is great because that means this ballast is actually good!

Interests
1. Motorcycles, Women, and Lighting (especially fluorescent)
2. Weighting/staying extremely athletic
3. Severe Thunderstorms of all kinds
4. Food and drinks. So gimme them bbq ribs
Yep
Lighting has been a passion of mine since I was born. I consider everyone on LG to be a friend

High Intensity
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May 12, 2017 at 03:59 AM Author: High Intensity
I will fix the ground tomorrow and see if that will fix it.

Old lighting is, and will always be, the best lighting.

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May 12, 2017 at 04:04 AM Author: suzukir122
I shall stay tuned lol

Interests
1. Motorcycles, Women, and Lighting (especially fluorescent)
2. Weighting/staying extremely athletic
3. Severe Thunderstorms of all kinds
4. Food and drinks. So gimme them bbq ribs
Yep
Lighting has been a passion of mine since I was born. I consider everyone on LG to be a friend

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GoL
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May 12, 2017 at 03:42 PM Author: High Intensity
Just grounded the fixture and now it's not starting at all.
The lamps are flickering saying that it is getting power.

Old lighting is, and will always be, the best lighting.

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May 12, 2017 at 07:50 PM Author: streetlight98
With HPF ballast the ground is not as crucial as with NPF. IDK why that is though, since the cap is only used for improved power factor AFAIK.

To resist is to piss in the wind, anyone who does will end up smelling.

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May 13, 2017 at 05:12 AM Author: suzukir122
If all the wires and lamp pins are intact with the sockets, then it's officially a ballast issue at this point.
Do you know if all of the electrode filaments are heating?

Interests
1. Motorcycles, Women, and Lighting (especially fluorescent)
2. Weighting/staying extremely athletic
3. Severe Thunderstorms of all kinds
4. Food and drinks. So gimme them bbq ribs
Yep
Lighting has been a passion of mine since I was born. I consider everyone on LG to be a friend

High Intensity
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May 13, 2017 at 05:14 AM Author: High Intensity
Heating as in glowing red or something like that, if so no.

Old lighting is, and will always be, the best lighting.

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May 13, 2017 at 05:35 AM Author: suzukir122
Check to see if they're heating up. If they aren't, that *might* be the issue. If the lamps are dim/flickering and you see
any lamp end that looks purple, that's also a sign of no electrode filament heating, at least with magnetic rapid start fixtures.

Interests
1. Motorcycles, Women, and Lighting (especially fluorescent)
2. Weighting/staying extremely athletic
3. Severe Thunderstorms of all kinds
4. Food and drinks. So gimme them bbq ribs
Yep
Lighting has been a passion of mine since I was born. I consider everyone on LG to be a friend

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May 13, 2017 at 09:11 AM Author: streetlight98
If you have a voltmeter, you can check for voltage between the two contacts of the same socket on each socket. You should get something around 3.8V IIRC between the two pins of the same socket (lamps removed). You could also let the fixture run with lamps for like 10 minutes and then put your hand over the ends of the tubes. They'll be notably warm to the touch at the ends if the filaments are being heated.

To resist is to piss in the wind, anyone who does will end up smelling.

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May 13, 2017 at 02:29 PM Author: suzukir122
@streetlight98, that's an even better idea. I forgot about voltmeters lol and the touch method is also a better idea

Interests
1. Motorcycles, Women, and Lighting (especially fluorescent)
2. Weighting/staying extremely athletic
3. Severe Thunderstorms of all kinds
4. Food and drinks. So gimme them bbq ribs
Yep
Lighting has been a passion of mine since I was born. I consider everyone on LG to be a friend

High Intensity
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May 13, 2017 at 05:10 PM Author: High Intensity
I have a voltmeter somewhere lol.

Old lighting is, and will always be, the best lighting.

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Jul 01, 2017 at 11:58 AM Author: High Intensity
I was testing the fixture today and tested with a voltmeter the pins at both end and got exactly 3.8v and a left the fixture running for a minute and the lamps started running but a lot dimmer then usual, but the ends did get hot so now what.

Old lighting is, and will always be, the best lighting.

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Jul 01, 2017 at 12:06 PM Author: nicksfans
Sounds like the cap has degraded to the point where the lamps are having trouble starting.

I like my lamps thick, my ballasts heavy, and my fixtures tough.

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Jul 01, 2017 at 12:07 PM Author: streetlight98
The ends are apparently heating. The ballast is apparently just junk. If you feel like opening the ballast up, melting the tar out, and tinkering with the insides you could check for coil darkening (i.e. signs of a short) or an open circuit and try replacing the capacitor but honestly I'd just scrap the ballast.

To resist is to piss in the wind, anyone who does will end up smelling.

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Jul 01, 2017 at 02:04 PM Author: High Intensity
Okay, sad that the ballast is dead.

Old lighting is, and will always be, the best lighting.

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Jul 01, 2017 at 06:00 PM Author: suzukir122
Good news, if you decide to scrap the ballast, is that magnetic rapid start ballasts are very reliable. You could easily
replace this ballast with another one

Interests
1. Motorcycles, Women, and Lighting (especially fluorescent)
2. Weighting/staying extremely athletic
3. Severe Thunderstorms of all kinds
4. Food and drinks. So gimme them bbq ribs
Yep
Lighting has been a passion of mine since I was born. I consider everyone on LG to be a friend

High Intensity
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Jul 01, 2017 at 07:52 PM Author: High Intensity
That's if I knew where to look.

Old lighting is, and will always be, the best lighting.

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Jul 04, 2017 at 05:16 PM Author: High Intensity
Somehow, the ballast started working without a problem.

Old lighting is, and will always be, the best lighting.

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Jul 04, 2017 at 05:42 PM Author: streetlight98
Might have been a loose wire then. I have a Holophane wrap light that I put a 1977 Universal Therm-O-Matic in and a couple of months ago it refused to light a pair of GE lamps so I put Sylvania lamps in (which worked fine) and then those lamps eventually failed to light (today actually) and so I tested for cathode heating and one socket wasn't getting any heating. Upon opening the light, I found one of the red wires was broken. I re-stripped it and stabbed it back into the socket and it works like a champ now. Could be a loose wire like that or a loose connection inside the ballast. Maybe the fixture was dropped hard when it was removed or something? Certainly doesn't look like it and since the ballast is potted nothing should come loose.

To resist is to piss in the wind, anyone who does will end up smelling.

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Jul 04, 2017 at 05:54 PM Author: High Intensity
Then why did i get 3.8v at all of the ends?

Old lighting is, and will always be, the best lighting.

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Jul 04, 2017 at 06:24 PM Author: nicksfans
It could've been that the sockets were making contact with your meter probes but not the lamp pins.

I like my lamps thick, my ballasts heavy, and my fixtures tough.

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Jul 04, 2017 at 07:09 PM Author: High Intensity
The lamps were flickering like they were in contact with the sockets.
The ballast seems to be picky about what lamps i use.

Old lighting is, and will always be, the best lighting.

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Jul 04, 2017 at 08:27 PM Author: streetlight98
Magnetic rapid start fluorescent ballasts are very finicky. They are designed with barely enough OCV to strike the lamps (I think that is to prevent the lamps from starting too quickly before the electrodes are heated sufficiently) so they can be picky about starting and as the ballasts age, the components in side (particularly the capacitor) can fall out of tolerance (I think most electrical components are held to a +/- 10% leeway) it could be enough to make the ballast not function. With preheat ballasts, the lamps start much more reliably (albeit the flicker from the starters and the fact that the lamps all start up at different times bothers the "squares" lol) but rapid start was a way for companies to push unnecessary ballast replacements and sell more expensive, more complicated ballasts. then by the very late 70s they came out with the energy-saving ballasts which were supposed to work better with the ES lamps. Another reason to mass-replace ballasts (to nicely coincide with the PCB ban). Then in the 90s and early 2000s many places switched to electronic T8. Another reason to mass-replace ballasts. Some even further switched to electronic T5s. Now the movement is toward LEDs. All these products have at least one advantage and two disadvantages over what they're replacing. That's my rule of thumb for everything. No matter how many advantages there are to a new product, there's always at least as many disadvantages. But somehow those become overshadowed by the advantages...

Rapid start is reliable in laboratory conditions but in general I prefer preheat or slimline. For frequently switched applications RS is the way to go to promote lamp life though. Preheat and especially slimline will burn through lamps pretty quickly when frequently switched.

To resist is to piss in the wind, anyone who does will end up smelling.

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Jul 04, 2017 at 09:20 PM Author: suzukir122
I know for a fact that Rapid Start, Slimline, and Preheat are all very, very reliable. But I'm not sure I'd say that every
lamp starts much more reliably with preheat. I've had a couple lamps that have had an issue starting successfully in the past
with preheat. I've also have had lamps that had starting issues with rapid start as well, though I personally prefer rapid start. (magnetic)
In my collection, I've got an energy saver rapid start ballast with 87% power factor, 120volts, 0.67 amps. I think that ballast
might be from early 2000s.

Interests
1. Motorcycles, Women, and Lighting (especially fluorescent)
2. Weighting/staying extremely athletic
3. Severe Thunderstorms of all kinds
4. Food and drinks. So gimme them bbq ribs
Yep
Lighting has been a passion of mine since I was born. I consider everyone on LG to be a friend

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Jul 04, 2017 at 09:49 PM Author: don93s
Rapid-start can be maddening at times. They can be reluctant to start in humid conditions, weak grounding, or too far from the reflector. The biggest hassle for me are the lamp-holders. The push-lock ones can have a weak connection due to loose wire locks or corroded components. They can have a high resistance connection meaning that a voltmeter will read open voltage of ~3.8v but under load, it will drop to zero and lamp will have a cold cathode.

Another thing, the lamp pins commonly corrode as well, usually in humid or other corrosive conditions. I prefer the sockets that 'dig' into the pins when lamp is rotated into position. Those have the blades flat with the face of the socket. The other type, the 'conventional style', the blades are flat against the pins and may not force away the oxide layer when lamp is rotated.

One last thing...after cleaning wire ends to go into socket, or lamp pins with steel wool or light sand paper, I apply a thin layer of dielectric grease on the brass or copper parts to reduce future corrosion.
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Jul 05, 2017 at 08:32 AM Author: streetlight98
@ suzukir122: With preheat that's almost always either because the starter and lamp are not replaced together as they should be or the lamp itself just has issues. With Rapid Start it's an across-the-board thing. It's too finicky. And with slimline/instant start it either works or it doesn't. Instant start is pretty boring but I have to respect how simple it is to troubleshoot. "Works" or "doesn't work". None of that half-way crap you get with rapid start lol.

To resist is to piss in the wind, anyone who does will end up smelling.

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Jul 05, 2017 at 08:44 AM Author: suzukir122
I always thought most lamps would successfully start with Slimline due to high OCV. And you're right though, rapid start ballasts can be
finicky at times. Especially based on the condition of the lamp and it's surroundings, and also grounding. Preheat doesn't really have
an issue with those types of problems, except maybe extreme cold.

Interests
1. Motorcycles, Women, and Lighting (especially fluorescent)
2. Weighting/staying extremely athletic
3. Severe Thunderstorms of all kinds
4. Food and drinks. So gimme them bbq ribs
Yep
Lighting has been a passion of mine since I was born. I consider everyone on LG to be a friend

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Jul 05, 2017 at 09:50 AM Author: Alights
I've seen slimline and HO magnetic ballasts not start lamps in humid conditions

Magnetic ballasts and old school electronic only zone!  No T8 instant start

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Jul 05, 2017 at 09:53 AM Author: nicksfans
Yeah the VHOs over my workbench won't start in high humidity.

I like my lamps thick, my ballasts heavy, and my fixtures tough.

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suzukir123
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Jul 05, 2017 at 09:57 AM Author: suzukir122
I wonder why that still happens despite the high ocv on those kind of magnetic ballasts?

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Alights
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Jul 05, 2017 at 10:04 AM Author: Alights
Sometimes certain models of HO and VHO ballasts have lower OCV and are 50F rated so they're more designed just for higher light output versus colder starting ,also series ballasts have a harder time than parallel, electronic has both HF and parallel working it it's favor

Magnetic ballasts and old school electronic only zone!  No T8 instant start

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suzukir123
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Jul 05, 2017 at 10:42 AM Author: suzukir122
So there are HO and VHO ballasts that have a 50 degree or below starting temperature? I always thought all of them had 0 degrees or lower.
This is stuff I don't know since I currently don't have HO or VHO ballasts at the moment, although I did once own a GE bonusline HO ballast
years ago that I did not get to keep.

Interests
1. Motorcycles, Women, and Lighting (especially fluorescent)
2. Weighting/staying extremely athletic
3. Severe Thunderstorms of all kinds
4. Food and drinks. So gimme them bbq ribs
Yep
Lighting has been a passion of mine since I was born. I consider everyone on LG to be a friend

don93s
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Jul 05, 2017 at 11:04 AM Author: don93s
I have some 2xF48T12/HO ballasts that are rated +50F; they have the same open voltage as a regular F40 RS ballast...280v, so they can have the same problems, even though the operating current is doubled.
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suzukir123
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Jul 05, 2017 at 11:10 AM Author: suzukir122
Hmm that explains why I sometimes see 8 foot HO fixtures act like regular RS during EOL. This also explains why, in school a long time ago
in choir class, the HO fixtures they had took a long time to fire up.

Interests
1. Motorcycles, Women, and Lighting (especially fluorescent)
2. Weighting/staying extremely athletic
3. Severe Thunderstorms of all kinds
4. Food and drinks. So gimme them bbq ribs
Yep
Lighting has been a passion of mine since I was born. I consider everyone on LG to be a friend

ace100w120v
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Oct 08, 2017 at 11:01 PM Author: ace100w120v
Looks like an older Sears brand shoplight, you find the reflector as well? I've got several just like it in use.
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Sylvania 100w /DX MV Cold Startup


GoL
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Oct 08, 2017 at 11:20 PM Author: High Intensity
I have the reflector, it's a W shaped reflector.

Old lighting is, and will always be, the best lighting.

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Oct 09, 2017 at 11:14 AM Author: ace100w120v
Sears then I believe.
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Sylvania 100w /DX MV Cold Startup


GoL
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May 22, 2018 at 10:33 PM Author: High Intensity
Found out this is a Homtek shoplight and i also have 2 of these lights now.

Old lighting is, and will always be, the best lighting.

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