Return to the thumbnail page Display/hide file information See previous file See next file

The flame

The flame

Click to view full size image

Decorative lamp

R_088_(1).jpg R_125_(1)_Tesla,_na_zakázku.jpg R_206_lit.jpg R_238_pro_OH,_Svetlana,_Bulharsko.jpg

Light Information

Light Information

Manufacturer:unknown
Lamp
Base:E27
Electrical
Wattage:unknown

File information

File information

Download: Download this File
Filename:R_206_lit.jpg
Album name:Trianero2012 / Neon glow lamps
Keywords:Lamps
File Size:357 KB
Date added:Sep 17, 2012
Dimensions:1400 x 2050 pixels
Displayed:235 times
URL:https://www.lighting-gallery.net/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-69823
Favorites:Add to Favorites
Comments
rjluna2
Sr. Member
****
Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 303
View Gallery

Robert


GoL
View Profile Personal Message (Offline)
Sep 17, 2012 at 05:14 AM Author: rjluna2
Does it exhibit Neon flickering like I have shown in video version at C7 Flicker Neon Light Bulb?

Pretty, please no more Chinese failure.

Medved
Hero Member
*****
Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 4307
View Gallery

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)
Nov 26, 2012 at 09:20 AM Author: Medved
Stando,
One thing is still puzzling me about these "flicker flame" lamps:
Do you have a clue, what effect makethe discharge moving in the flame lamps? What is the difference towards (standard) lamps with steady glow around the wole electrode area?

No more selfballasted c***

Trianero2012
Newbie
*
Offline

Posts: 0
View Gallery

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)
Nov 26, 2012 at 09:57 AM Author: Trianero2012
This light source is NOT simply, in spite of it looks very simply. Is very difficult find equilibrium between distance of electrode, but mainly - inportant is chemistry on the electrodes surface -something as skin. The matter must be conductive/non-conductive, with special graining, moreover in wide range of temperatures. The parts of surface are in one moment source of electrones, and few moments are isolated. I was presented near great number of exercises and I must to tell, that the development was driving to mad.
rjluna2
Sr. Member
****
Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 303
View Gallery

Robert


GoL
View Profile Personal Message (Offline)
Nov 26, 2012 at 10:59 AM Author: rjluna2
@Medved: I think of the characteristics of the electron flow as a small amount of water going through the slippery flat slab with unpredictable path of the water flow.

Pretty, please no more Chinese failure.

Medved
Hero Member
*****
Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 4307
View Gallery

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)
Nov 26, 2012 at 12:56 PM Author: Medved
@Stando:
So do I understand well: The flickering is "under control" of the semiconductor surface layer.
That layer tend to focus the current into small area (thus preventing the discharge from spreading across the whole surface), while the preferrence moves to the colder area (so the spot shift, as the layer locally heat up).
Is that the correct understanding?

You can respond/continue in Czech via "Private message" (the link is on the top-right corner of this page is clickable "Hey ..., you have xxx messages")...

No more selfballasted c***

rjluna2
Sr. Member
****
Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 303
View Gallery

Robert


GoL
View Profile Personal Message (Offline)
Nov 26, 2012 at 01:19 PM Author: rjluna2
@Medved: Your explanation become crystal clear now I can visualize the hot/cold spot where the cold has lower voltage drop where the hot spot has higher voltage drop where the current flow going around the hot spot until it is cooled enough to flow through the spot. If you throw in more current at the discharge tube, it becomes whole area to glow. Try to put a neon indicator lamp with higher resistor (i.e. 1 Meg Ohm) you will see part of the negative glow discharge on the electrode where you put a lower resistor in series, more area is being used at the entire electrode to discharge the ion.

Pretty, please no more Chinese failure.

Medved
Hero Member
*****
Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 4307
View Gallery

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)
Nov 26, 2012 at 01:44 PM Author: Medved
@rjluna2: My "explanation" may look nice, but it is only my own conclusion, how it could possibly work. But the main question I have still remain: Is that really correct, does it really work that way?

No more selfballasted c***

rjluna2
Sr. Member
****
Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 303
View Gallery

Robert


GoL
View Profile Personal Message (Offline)
Nov 26, 2012 at 04:10 PM Author: rjluna2
@Medved: I had considered the other possibility: the uneven coating of the electrode material as well

Pretty, please no more Chinese failure.

Medved
Hero Member
*****
Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 4307
View Gallery

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)
Nov 26, 2012 at 10:51 PM Author: Medved
@rjluna: The uneven coating would cause the discharge to be on some part of the electrode area, but won't move. There have to be some mechanism, what does tend to concentrate the current to small spot, but after some time this "sweet spot" have to move across the electrode surface, in order to create the flickering flame effect.

No more selfballasted c***

rjluna2
Sr. Member
****
Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 303
View Gallery

Robert


GoL
View Profile Personal Message (Offline)
Dec 25, 2012 at 06:55 PM Author: rjluna2
Hmm.. I see what you mean.

Pretty, please no more Chinese failure.

Globe Collector
Newbie
*
Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 26
View Gallery

Preserving the Brightest Ideas of Our Age


View Profile Personal Message (Offline)
Jun 21, 2013 at 07:55 AM Author: Globe Collector
I always thought that localized heating and convection currents in the neon played a role too, but I know that the electrodes of these have a black, sooty like coating.
What is that coating Stan?

Manufactured articles should be made to be used, not made to be sold!

Fee, Fye, Fow, Fum, A dead man's eye and a parrot's BUM!

Medved
Hero Member
*****
Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 4307
View Gallery

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)
Jun 21, 2013 at 12:18 PM Author: Medved
@GC: There is nearly a vacuum, so I doubt any significant convection currents could form there - the atoms are simply too far from each other...

No more selfballasted c***

Globe Collector
Newbie
*
Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 26
View Gallery

Preserving the Brightest Ideas of Our Age


View Profile Personal Message (Offline)
Jun 21, 2013 at 07:04 PM Author: Globe Collector
The atmospheric pressure on Mars is about 4 Torriceliis (mmHg), but high winds and huge dust storms can whip up there, even in that near vacuum. On Venus, where the pressure is about 9MPa, (c70,000 Torricellis) the CO2 is so thick it is like pea soup and there is hardly any wind at all, however I have seen strong convection currents inside a Xenon lamp filled to 4.5MPa whilst it was running.
It seems that the denser the atmosphere, the slower the wind, this makes sense when you consider the amount of energy required to move a given amount of material from one place to another and the friction and drag effects against the terrain it is being moved over.

Manufactured articles should be made to be used, not made to be sold!

Fee, Fye, Fow, Fum, A dead man's eye and a parrot's BUM!

rjluna2
Sr. Member
****
Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 303
View Gallery

Robert


GoL
View Profile Personal Message (Offline)
Jun 22, 2013 at 10:00 AM Author: rjluna2
Wow! Sounds like you already took physics class as part of the Chemistry major

The behavior on different atmosphere pressure can play the role of the density on these winds that can move based on the change of the temperatures

Pretty, please no more Chinese failure.

Globe Collector
Newbie
*
Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 26
View Gallery

Preserving the Brightest Ideas of Our Age


View Profile Personal Message (Offline)
Jun 23, 2013 at 04:19 AM Author: Globe Collector
When I was at Uni, Robert, I did Geology I and Chemistry I in the first year, I had not passed the Maths at College and I was only let in to the Uni on the proviso that I passed the maths at college. That was in 1983. So I was going to the Uni and two colleges that year, the Hobart Technical College and Rosny Matriculation College, doing maths at both.
The following year, 1984 I did Chemistry II, Calculus and Linear Algebra I and Physics I as I had passed the college maths well enough to be granted full matriculation and entry to Uni. I was not very good at the maths and only average at the Physics, the chemistry was easy though. I dropped the Geology although it would have been interesting to continue. Each year, each subject contributed to a quota of points, there was a minimum number of points for each year and a certain total all up over a certain time, six years I recall, the get and undergraduate degree.
In the third year I did Chemistry III, and repeated the Calculus I which on flunked because the teaching staff wern't very good. A good tutor, who knew his calculus well and knew how to describe all its notation did make it A LOT easier, but I was not very mathematically minded and could not visualize n-dimensional problems. I could only visualize to three dimensions, like everybody else. Those who were really good at the maths did it by some other method which did not require visualization. I remember that I had to repeat some Physics subjects too. I never got to Physics II.
In the last two years I was there, 1986 and 87 I did every chemistry course on offer, things like, "Chemistry and synthesis of naturally occurring compounds" and "Industrial Chemistry", which involved traveling around Tasmania to all the Mines, Smelters, Food Processing Places and other heavy industry and infrastructure, like Comalco Aluminium Hall-Hurolt refinery, Sewreage Plants and Bell Bay thermal Power Station. I still could not quite make up all the points for the BSc, so I was allowed to fill the gap with some second year Electrical Engineering subjects, digital and power electronics, which I passed.
Once I graduated, I decided that academia was not for me. I did not really want to go post grad, where you have to do original research and you refine your skills into just one very small aspect of one subject (e.g. The thio ligand complexes of mercury). I wasted to go "sideways" and learn a moderate amount about a lot of different disciplines so I could work and use my skills across disciplines. (e.g. to design batteries and cells you must be both good at chemistry and electrical engineering because these have "a boot on both camps" so to speak.)
Because of my Aspurger's, I never found a job, but I have done lots of small jobs as an electronics technician and general problem solver. I have built and repaired many audio amplifiers, both domestic and professional stage and theatrical use.
My childhood neighbor also did chemistry, a year ahead of me in the same department. He went post-grad and all the way to a PhD. (Philosophical Doctorate). Short of being appointed as a professor, you can't go any higher in academia. He worked on the fringes of Biology and Chemistry studying turpenes and triglycerides extracted from endemic Tasmanian plant species for their potential parmacological applications. Just recently however, his grant ran out and he is now unemployed, like me! His wife, whom he met in the chemistry department at Uni, was also a post grad studying organo-mercury compounds. I am not sure if she just did hohours, masters or went for the full PhD. She is now the vice principal of a local public high school.

Manufactured articles should be made to be used, not made to be sold!

Fee, Fye, Fow, Fum, A dead man's eye and a parrot's BUM!

rjluna2
Sr. Member
****
Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 303
View Gallery

Robert


GoL
View Profile Personal Message (Offline)
Jun 23, 2013 at 11:23 AM Author: rjluna2
Wasting your time with your "sideways" is not a bad thing. I have always thought of cross-training discipline with two different majors could learn a thing or two out of its norm

You are not the only person who has some problem with education and holding a steady job. I started Community College after I graduated from High School, but I could hold those courses and eventually I dropped out and started some full job not lasting more than few years in between. I did went back to school as night class along working full time at work. Eventually, I did graduated with Associates Degree with Digital Electronics and Microprocessor technology in 1996. Fast foward to 2005, I considered getting Bachelor Degree in Computer Engineering, so I enrolled to my local university and been attending ever since. Now I am half way there completing the course. My only weak spot is English due in fact it was not really my first language. Signing Language was to supplement what I have lacked on my hearing loss.

I did had to withdrawl some of the class due to what I called 'bad teaching' class session, but I retook the same class with different instructor that resolved the problem. I even took the same class a row to get one part of the subject that I had trouble understanding even with the passing grade.

So, in other words keep trying whatever you wanted to learn about

Pretty, please no more Chinese failure.

Globe Collector
Newbie
*
Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 26
View Gallery

Preserving the Brightest Ideas of Our Age


View Profile Personal Message (Offline)
Jun 23, 2013 at 08:15 PM Author: Globe Collector
Yes, I can certainly understand you point about "bad" teachers and tutors. I had two absolutely brilliant teachers, one in grade-10 (High School) and the second in Grade 12 (College). One taught me science with a chemistry emphasis and the other taught me pure chemistry. The second one's family ran a lavender farm, where they extracted the lavender oil (mostly the terpene, linalool acetate) from the flowers by steam distillation. They had a small lab there with a gas chromatograph so that they could grade the different oils.
A really good teacher is one who actually uses the subject he teaches outside his teaching job and he is interested in it and passionate about it. A poor teacher simply regurgitates somebody else's stuff from a text book and does not really understand it any batter than the students he teaches. I feel that if you expect to teach a bunch of students "1 unit amount" of Chemistry, say, then you heed to REALLY UNDERSTAND about ten times as much, or "10 units" of chemistry. That "1 unit" you teach them really well, will allow them to go and get most of the other "9 units" by themselves.

Although I understand digital electronics, gates, Boolian Algebra and De-Morgan's Laws, I'm not much good when it comes to micro processors with stacks and registers and running firmware. I could probably do it, but I'd need to "knuckle down" for a few weeks!
I have a friend who works on Soft and Firmware controlled stuff all the time. He told me that the first rule of troubleshootng such gear is to imagine that the program is like a toy train in a closed track. When you boot-up, the train starts at "Grand Central" and does its rounds of the tracks. Instructions to the program are like "switching track points in going into sidings", i.e running different subroutines. If the program crashes for any reason, its like the train derailing, it will never" pick itself up and put itself back on the track", it needs to be re-booted at the very least. He spent about two years learning assembler, then hardly ever used it. These days he uses higher level programming like C++, Delphi, and Java. He also uses a lot of P.L.A.'s and P.I.C.'s, both of which are getting a lot easier to program and use!

Manufactured articles should be made to be used, not made to be sold!

Fee, Fye, Fow, Fum, A dead man's eye and a parrot's BUM!





Posts:
View Gallery

View Profile Email
Jun 24, 2013 at 02:06 AM Author:
Globe Collector , This is very interesting , your history / education. You are obviously very clever and have very good mind (not like me x lol x) , but is interesting we share a problem about keeping a job , though for different reasons !
Also what You say about good teachers and poor teachers is so very true . Agood teacher not only understands the subject , but makes it interesting and fun , and also respects his students . Many bad teachers , in my experience , expect to be respected just because they are the teacher , but they show no respect back.

For over 25 years I have had many different jobs , but I have never stayed in a job for long and I have been fired more times than I can remember x lol x. I have worked mainly in lighting jobs , my longest time in a job was with the local street-lighting department for 8 years. But I have also worked in many other jobs , including powerline / substation maintenance , Truck driving , and for many years I have worked for an agency doing security work and as a nightclub doorman ("bouncer") , which I still do and enjoy very much. The reason I have never stayed in one job (and often been fired) is different to You , but all the same I know how it feels . My problem is simply RESPECT!
I have always found that "bosses" (wherever you work), think that they are automatically owed "respect", just because they are the boss. However they do not show any respect to others , they think it is ok because they are the boss and they think they can be rude and talk to people however they like. For me this doesnt work . For me respect has to work both ways. So , this is why I have never stayed in one job for very long !! x lol .
For some years now , I have worked completely from home , for myself , making neon tubes and cold cathode tubes. Most of my work is for one big sign company so the work is secure. In the last 10 years I have also earned a living through my weightlifting and bodybuilding. But this is the only way I can work and keep a "job" now , I dont think I could ever work "for" anyone else again , but myself.

Anyway , Going back to the neon flicker lamp, I have always loved neon flicker lamps and would love to know more about how they work. I had always assumed the discharge was deliberately made to be "unstable " and thereby flicker. I didnot realise there was another mechanism in action and that the coating was significant??. I have some lovely flicker lamps , including some beautiful inside-frosted ones which are my favorites.


Jeremy
Globe Collector
Newbie
*
Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 26
View Gallery

Preserving the Brightest Ideas of Our Age


View Profile Personal Message (Offline)
Jun 24, 2013 at 04:45 AM Author: Globe Collector
Don't ever put yourself down Jeremy! Everybody has SOMETHING to offer. None of our skills totally overlap. I have one friend who does bouncing on odd occasions, he has martial arts skills though, the rest of the time he works on computer networking. I have another who is a body builder, and this saved him when he lost a kidney and his spleen in a vehicle accident, he spends his time fixing fridges and building Tesla coils.
When it comes to "respect", those that deal with me get the "mirror" treatment. If the look down their snobby noses at me, then this is how I behave towards them. If they do the arrogant prat routine, then this is what they see in the "mirror". I don't care who they are, who they think they are, how big their bank account is or who their friends are.
In the other hand, if they wish to interact with me, rather than simply react to me, then we might both learn things from each other! I do have little respect for those who "manipulate" others to do things and don't lift a finger to do anything themselves. Those "pencil pushers" who sit behind desks very often tend to be like this.
Ever noticed that there are these two types of people...

The "Do Somethings". We fall into this category. We build the whole world. We dig holes, screw in screws, weld steel together....in short, the word as we know it exists because of us.
When a job gets done, we are the agents of change that makes it all happen. Then there are....

The "Do nothings". These can be most nearly compared to parasites like scabies mites, mosquitoes or tape worms. They sped all their time psychologically manipulating others to carry out their dirty, scheming little plans. If the rest of us simply saw then for what they are and ostracized them, they'd be dead within a month!

But, yes, we are here to talk about those things which bring us happiness, excitement and joy, LAMPS and LUMINARES, who/which don't lie, cheat, manipulate or deceive!!

Manufactured articles should be made to be used, not made to be sold!

Fee, Fye, Fow, Fum, A dead man's eye and a parrot's BUM!

rjluna2
Sr. Member
****
Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 303
View Gallery

Robert


GoL
View Profile Personal Message (Offline)
Jun 24, 2013 at 05:12 AM Author: rjluna2
Amen to that, Andrew

Pretty, please no more Chinese failure.

Globe Collector
Newbie
*
Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 26
View Gallery

Preserving the Brightest Ideas of Our Age


View Profile Personal Message (Offline)
Jun 24, 2013 at 05:15 AM Author: Globe Collector
Yes, I reckon that we all have experienced it, it just a matter of putting it into words.

Manufactured articles should be made to be used, not made to be sold!

Fee, Fye, Fow, Fum, A dead man's eye and a parrot's BUM!





Posts:
View Gallery

View Profile Email
Jun 25, 2013 at 05:05 AM Author:
Andrew . I didnt mean to sound like I was putting myself down. Really I am just saying that I have never been very "academic" ,like You ,but like You say , we all have our different "strengths" and skills that are often unique to us.
The limit of my "academic" experience was doing "A"-level (the old UK GCE "A" -level) , in Physics Chemistry and Biology. I did these myself at college after leaving school. I really struggled with Chemistry on account of the maths involved , having always struggled with maths of any , (but the simplest! x) , kind. I did these with the idea of possibly going onto something further , but at the time (mid 80s) , I started working from home , for myself , making neon tubes and cold cathode tubes (my hobby) ,and this really took off well and earned me a lot of money. Also I was (and still am) very heavily involved in Bodybuilding / Weightlifting (I prefer the expression Weightlifting - that is what I do and love - I was not , and am not primarily interested in competitive bodybuilding). And this took , and takes , a great deal of my time up also.
The closest I have come to having an "academic" job was working for Derby College of Higher Education (now Derby University) as an interpreter for Japanese students . I held this position for nearly a year in the early 90s. My partner / "Girlfriend", Rosie , is Japanese and I am fairly fluent in reading , writing and speaking Japanese because of this , although I have no "qualifications" as such in this or in interpreting. Back in those days no formal qualifications as such were required for this type of job though, except an ability to speak and read / write the language and translate well / get on with people.

It is interesting You mentioned your friend who is a bodybuilder and whose bodybuilding saved his life when he was injured Andrew. I have been in a , kind of , similar situation to this in the last 8 / 9 years.
My interest , and love , of Weightlifting and Bodybuilding goes back to my early childhood , when I was 4 or 5 years old , and is seccond only to my love of and interest in lamps. As a young boy I was fascinated with vintage muscle and bodybuilding magazines and early "vintage" Strongmen. I had an old fashioned chest-expander and a "Bullworker" by the time I was 7/8 and I graduated to proper weights and got into "proper" , serious , weight training when I was around 12 or 13 years old. I have always LOVED lifting weights and have always been kind of "addicted" (in a positive way), to being as big and strong as a human being can possibly be. It is sometimes very hard to expalin to people who are not interested in weight lifting . It comes from inside , from the "soul" , or heart. It is like trying to explain to someone who is not interested in lamps , why we like lamps!! , if that makes sense?"

In 2004 I became quite poorly. As I think most of my friends on here know , I was diagnosed with pancreatic cancer. I had just got into UKs Strongest Man and was in 100% peak condition and ready for this. In fact I was bigger and stronger and in better shape than any of the other guys going in for this at that time , but because of the diagnosis I couldnt continue with it . They have some very strict rules and medical exams , etc , regarding this kind of thing. It was VERY frustrating.
To cut a very long story short ,I went through quite a bad spell , but came out of it ok and pretty well recovered. I DONT like dwelling on illness or talking about it much, but now I am ok (although been having a few recurring problems this last year - but not letting it get the better of me!)
I had very few actual "symptoms" from the cancer , the worst thing was , and is , the chemotherapy. This absolutely tears you to shreds. Its horrendous and leaves you in tatters. I dont recommend it much x lol !
It was only because I am as fit and as strong as I am that enabled to get me through this , like your friend Andrew . While I have had many bad days with the chemo (and I have had some REAL BAD ones!! ) , the Doctors often commented that I was up and around and able to go home , etc , despite being on treatment that would have laid out in hospital , and nearly killed many people. On one occasion I was able to tolerate a much increased dose and cycle of chemo , that a "normal" person (my consultants expression , not mine) , would not have been able to tolerate.
SO - To cut a very long story short , my "Hobby" , and Interest actually probably saved my life , in a round about way!

Anyway - Im ok now - and growing my hair nice and long again , like I used to have it when I was a teenager x lol x Even if its a bit grey now , its amazing how much I appreciate my hair now !!

And thats quite enough about illness , etc! , Apologies if , Ive gone on a bit!! This was supposed to be about Flicker Lamps x lol!!


Jeremy
rjluna2
Sr. Member
****
Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 303
View Gallery

Robert


GoL
View Profile Personal Message (Offline)
Jun 25, 2013 at 05:13 AM Author: rjluna2
Thank goodness, Jeremy. I see you have recovered nicely. I certainly hope your cancer will not return

Pretty, please no more Chinese failure.

© 2005-2019 Lighting-Gallery.net | Powered by: Coppermine Photo Gallery