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EYE Lighting MV

EYE Lighting MV

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Here's my EYE/Iwasaki MV bulb. 250 watts!

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Album name:wattMaster / Our Bulbs
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Date added:Apr 26, 2017
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Date Time:2017:04:26 08:45:01
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Lumex120
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Apr 26, 2017 at 09:49 AM Author: Lumex120
Where did you get this from?

Any machine is a smoke machine if you operate it wrong enough.

merc
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Apr 26, 2017 at 11:03 AM Author: merc
These are beautiful lamps.

Not a misoLEDist...

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Apr 26, 2017 at 11:23 AM Author: LART2014
I have these in 175, 250, 400 and 2,000 watt all clear and beautiful
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Apr 26, 2017 at 08:19 PM Author: streetlight98
Nice lamp! One of the few good MV lamps still made.

Please check out my newly-updated website! McCann Lighting Company is where my street light collection is displayed in detail.

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Apr 26, 2017 at 08:56 PM Author: BlueHalide
Modern day Philips Lifeguard, these last forever. There was a campground I once serviced a few years ago that used about 20, 175w mercury bucket lights, I distinctly remember the EYE lamps I replaced as they were too dim had a 1977 date written in marker on the bases, it was super faint but still legible. Thats like 125,000 hours, and they still worked albeit super dim...incredible
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Apr 26, 2017 at 09:08 PM Author: Lumex120
Do these really have anti-blackening electrodes like Lifeguards? I have heard some people say they do.

Any machine is a smoke machine if you operate it wrong enough.

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Apr 26, 2017 at 09:39 PM Author: streetlight98
No they don't. He was just implying they're the best in their class right now.

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Apr 26, 2017 at 11:00 PM Author: don93s
I get the impression that the anti-blackening is pretty standard in any well-made MV lamp. When it was first developed in the early 60's,, it was a great marketing point: GE Bonusline, Sylvania Banner, and Westinghouse Lifeguard. If a MV lamp shows whitish deposits as it ages, that technology is used. However, how long before it actually starts to blacken is a question of quality control or design. The Philips lamps redesigned the Lifeguard electrodes during the mid-90's in the U.S. and ruined what was once the greatest of lamps made. I've seen them go dim after two years. Lamps made in China will do better than that.
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Apr 27, 2017 at 07:41 AM Author: dor123
The lifespan of mercury lamp is up to 70% from the initial brightness. If the lamp is very dim but still works, it is essentially EOL. Only the mercury lamps with the anti blackening emitter, can last longer than LED, as MV lamps with the standard thorium emitter, dims very fast, while still consume the same amount of power, and the ones with the anti-blackening emitter remains above 70% of their initial brightness after very long time, and really starts to blacken only when all of the emitter is consumed, and the electrodes material itself begin to sputter. Mercury lamps have the same failure mechanism as LEDs in general: Dimming during lifespan. Only the cheapee MV lamps just stop working like MH lamps and sometimes also HPS lamps.

I"m don't speak English well, and rely on online translating to write in this site.
Please forgive me if my choice of my words looks like offensive, while that isn't my intention.

I only working with the European date format (dd.mm.yyyy).

I lives in Israel, which is a 230-240V, 50hz country.

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Apr 27, 2017 at 09:15 AM Author: streetlight98
@ Don: GE and Sylvania stopped using that anti-blackening chemical in the 60s and Philips did so by about 1990. If the lamp doesn't say "bonusline", "banner", or "Lifeguard", it doesn't have the anti-blackening chemical (the arc tube will not go white). Aside from Westy/Philips lamps, the anti-blackening chemical hasn't been used in over 40 years.

Please check out my newly-updated website! McCann Lighting Company is where my street light collection is displayed in detail.

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Apr 27, 2017 at 09:49 AM Author: Lumex120
They stopped using it apparently because HPS was a new technology and they were trying to make MV look bad. Now I have a feeling this is going to happen to ALL lighting technologies that aren't LED.

Any machine is a smoke machine if you operate it wrong enough.

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Apr 27, 2017 at 11:26 AM Author: streetlight98
Exactly! That's what they always do. Now HPS lamps don't last long at all now (like 2 or 3 years as opposed to 7 or 8 years, around here at least) and the MV lamps nowadays are worse than ever. Before around 2000, MV lamps were bad in the sense that they dimmed out to "usefulness" at a rapid rate but now the MV lamps actually go out completely after like two years! And they "banned" all the high-lumen T12s to make T8s look better. And I'm sure they will destroy the reputation of electronic T8s and T5s in the coming years too. LEDs are everything now.

Please check out my newly-updated website! McCann Lighting Company is where my street light collection is displayed in detail.

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Apr 27, 2017 at 11:47 AM Author: Lumex120
It's really stupid. The only good mercury lamps it seems nowadays (actually all HID lamps in general) are Sylvania and Eye. I really hope that nobody gets the bright idea to manufacture lamps designed to damage (as in overheat and kill ballasts) fixtures so they are forced to go to LED.

Any machine is a smoke machine if you operate it wrong enough.

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Apr 27, 2017 at 12:21 PM Author: Silverliner
I've seen MV lamps around here fail after 6 months. I examined a 400w MV lamp that failed after somewhere around 6 months, maybe a year at most, and found a piece of quartz rolling around inside that popped off the pinched seal.

May all the great lighting technologies have their place in history.

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Apr 27, 2017 at 01:56 PM Author: streetlight98
No the Sylvania HPS lamps are junk. That's what they're using here. Some last around the rated five years but a lot start cycling anywhere from a year or two in. I've even seen them start cycling just a few WEEKS in! This goes for all wattages too. AFAIK, GE HPS lamps are decent.

Please check out my newly-updated website! McCann Lighting Company is where my street light collection is displayed in detail.

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Apr 27, 2017 at 04:19 PM Author: don93s
@Mike, well I'm confused then because I've seen MV lamps from Sylvania late 70's-80's still turn white as they age. The GE's to a lesser extent.
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Apr 27, 2017 at 04:24 PM Author: don93s
Earlier, I found what looks like an aged 175w GE on ebay. The elongated srips on the supports led me to believe it is 80's or later..not sure. But the arc-tube is completely white.

Edit: Also, please read this description: Lamptech
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Apr 27, 2017 at 04:46 PM Author: BlueHalide
The GE Lucalox is currently the best HPS lamp in terms of life and reliability, I believe this is due to GE not yet sourcing their HPS lamps from asia...yet. the Ushio HPS are also just as good but not readily used here in the US.
As far as chinese MV lamps being designed to overheat ballasts, this is clearly happening but probably not intentional, rather just the result of not giving two sh!ts about manufacturing quality and the electrical arc characteristics end up being extremely varied and far off the lamp's matched ballast ratings. Ive seen people relamp their 100w and 175w area lights with cheap hardware store lamps like Regent and they cook the ballast in a matter of weeks to months. Stay away from those Brinks (walmart) 175 MV lamps, I dont know who makes them but the one I have makes one of my M57 f-can ballasts run very hot.
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Apr 27, 2017 at 07:43 PM Author: Lumex120

Earlier, I found what looks like an aged 175w GE on ebay. The elongated srips on the supports led me to believe it is 80's or later..not sure. But the arc-tube is completely white.

Edit: Also, please read this description: Lamptech

What kind of monster mounts a NEMA bucket like that!?

Any machine is a smoke machine if you operate it wrong enough.

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Apr 27, 2017 at 08:05 PM Author: streetlight98
@ Don: Hmm that's a new one to me. Those lamps must have light hours on them though because the lamps do dim out fast, especially the 100W lamps.

Please check out my newly-updated website! McCann Lighting Company is where my street light collection is displayed in detail.

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Apr 28, 2017 at 04:31 PM Author: don93s
The anti-blackening may still be used but other factors like electrode loading, quality, design, etc. all contribute to how well it actually works.
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Apr 28, 2017 at 08:00 PM Author: streetlight98
They probably also use a lot less of it too. I think by the end of the 60s they realized that the lamps were lasting too long. Sylvania was the first to ditch the Banner name and the quality of their lamps (specifically the 100W ones) tanked. GE followed suit a few years after and For whatever reason Westy kept making the good mercs! And Philips continued the tradition until they caught on. Even the 100W lifeguards dimmed out badly though. 100W MVs were super common in New England. Joe Maurath knew of a number of fixtures with the original lamps removed in the 90s and the 100W ones were always terribly dim, since they wouldn't relamp them unless they were reported or went out completely, which was rare for pre-90s MV lamps. There's still a number of MVs in Rhode Island with 80s and 90s lamps (judging by the photocells on the lights, as they replaced the lamp and PC together here) and the 175W and 400W lights are still decently bright but the 100W MVs are all pathetically dim. They continued relamping 100W MVs until ~2014 here (not the rest though) so some 100W MVs are still fairly bright but they do dim at a more rapid rate. Probably because of less surface area in the arc tube?

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Apr 28, 2017 at 08:05 PM Author: Lumex120
It's too bad that they stopped relamping the 100w mercs. I would at least keep those since they aren't too much different from the 100w HPS.

Any machine is a smoke machine if you operate it wrong enough.

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Apr 29, 2017 at 06:30 AM Author: streetlight98
Aren't too much different than HPS? What do you mean by that? They should keep relamping them because that's the majority of the MVs left in the state! IMO they should start relamping them all again because it's only a matter of time before LEDs take over everything so no sense it putting up brand new HPS fixtures every time a MV conks out.

Please check out my newly-updated website! McCann Lighting Company is where my street light collection is displayed in detail.

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Apr 29, 2017 at 07:00 AM Author: Lumex120
Oops, should have been more specific. I meant since they are still very common and they don't use any more energy than the HPS lights.

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Apr 29, 2017 at 04:14 PM Author:

@ Don: GE and Sylvania stopped using that anti-blackening chemical in the 60s and Philips did so by about 1990. If the lamp doesn't say "bonusline", "banner", or "Lifeguard", it doesn't have the anti-blackening chemical (the arc tube will not go white). Aside from Westy/Philips lamps, the anti-blackening chemical hasn't been used in over 40 years.


Do you actually have any proof (i.e. actual documents, not your personal opinion) to back up this claim?
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Apr 29, 2017 at 06:35 PM Author: streetlight98
@ Max: the lamps blacken much faster post-Bonusline/Banner/Lifeguard so that itself is proof. There may be trace amounts of the chemical but relative to the amount they used in the 60s, there's essentially "nothing" in the new lamps. Of course a manufacture is not going to publish an article saying "Our lamps last too long so we are virtually eliminating the anti-blackening chemical from our lamps to make them dim out faster." but it's obvious that if they are still using the chemical, they're using trace amounts of it.

Please check out my newly-updated website! McCann Lighting Company is where my street light collection is displayed in detail.





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Apr 30, 2017 at 03:42 AM Author:

@ Max: the lamps blacken much faster post-Bonusline/Banner/Lifeguard so that itself is proof.

This argument is like: "LEDs last much longer than mercury lamps so that itself is proof". That's no scientific proof at all, its your personal opinion based on some sporadic observations done in a totally uncontrolled manner within your own personal frame of preferences; You can't guarantee/prove that the few cases that you've seen in the field were actually representative of a larger truth or that those cases were not influenced by statistical variations in the manufacturing quality and/or the operating conditions of lamps. Moreover, you don't know the exact amount of operating hours done by the few lamps you've seen (have you kept a precise and accurate log of it?) or if these were run within specs as required by the manufacturer. Finally, you don't know the proportion of lamps that have actually aged well for each badly worn out lamp that you've focused your attention on in any given installation... Are you actually sure that you've focused your attention equally well on both lamp groups that have aged well and badly within their rated useful service life? beyond any doubt?

See, your personal impression of things (or mine, for that matter) does not constitute a valid proof in any way because of confirmation bias that stems from the fact that our attention and memory are selective by nature, all of which make personal opinions inherently unreliable. That's actually why the scientific method came to be developed, i.e. in order to provide reliable facts beyond any doubts within a defined range of parameters and conditions, something that personal opinions cannot provide at all. Hence the need for an actual proof based on a reliable scientific method to back up your bold claim, not a personal opinion. So again, do you actually have any measured data of the output flux (or of the burner blackening) between two representative groups of lamps (e.g. pre- and post-Bonusline/Banner/Lifeguard) gathered in an controlled, equivalent, and reproducible manner to support your affirmation?


Of course a manufacture is not going to publish an article saying "Our lamps last too long so we are virtually eliminating the anti-blackening chemical from our lamps to make them dim out faster."

Of course, manufacturers won't explicitly say it if they intentionally tamper with their lamps in such obvious way. However, if they did indeed cripple their mercury lamps, it would obviously show up in their published flux maintenance curves. So, do you have any such data that actually shows crippling beyond any doubt?

If you consider that data published by manufacturers cannot be trusted, then nothing can be trusted at all, and your point then becomes moot and is just another random unsubstantiated affirmation based on nothing reliable... unless you actually can prove otherwise (and by "prove" I don't mean by merely voicing a personal opinion)


but it's obvious that if they are still using the chemical, they're using trace amounts of it.

If it is so obvious, then you must have indisputable evidence for that... where is it? And what exactly this chemical is?
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Apr 30, 2017 at 08:24 AM Author: streetlight98
^ Is it apparent that Max has too much time on his hands...

It's very apparent that lamps from the 60s dim out at a much more rapid rate than those from the 60s. While this could be due to a number of things, the limiting of the anti-blackening chemical is the most suspect reason because of the timing of them dropping the trademarks. Right around the time the trade marks were dropped, the quality of the lamps dropped. The lamps still burned for a long time but dimmed out at a rapid pace.

You speak so much of science, however most of science is based on hypotheses and drawing logical conclusions. I didn't work in the lamp manufacturing plants nor do I know any GE, Westinghouse, or Sylvania lamp engineers, but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out SOMETHING CHANGED in these lamps in the late 60s that made them dim out faster. And the fact that they dropped the "Bonusline" and "Banner" names around that SAME TIME leads me to believe they limited the amount of substance used in the arc tube to retard blackening. It's a logical assumption. If you don't buy it, prove me wrong! There's so little information about the specific details of the lamps' construction available to the public that it is hard to prove anything. It's better to make predictions/assumptions than to not even try.

Please check out my newly-updated website! McCann Lighting Company is where my street light collection is displayed in detail.

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Apr 30, 2017 at 03:41 PM Author: don93s
Based on my own observation, the lamps that tend to darken a bit faster, post-60's, are Norelco and GE, merely because of smaller electrodes, which are perhaps stressed more than the jumbo sized ones from Westinghouse and Sylvania. But, perhaps the latter are over-engineered. I once had an 80's GE 175w run for well over ten years until it failed and it stayed relatively bright until the end. That is well over the rated life of ~24,000 hrs. I have a '79 Sylvania from my buddy's farm property that went well over 15 years and still works and has a bit of blackening but still respectably bright and mostly white deposits.

One other thing....it's always a fascinating anecdote of lamps going for 100,000 or half a million hours and stay bright but that's really not the norm.
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Apr 30, 2017 at 05:51 PM Author: streetlight98
Yeah it's amazing the number of hours a lot of older MV lamps clocked in before going out. It's too bad they have to mess with perfection.

Please check out my newly-updated website! McCann Lighting Company is where my street light collection is displayed in detail.

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Apr 30, 2017 at 07:29 PM Author: Silverliner
Sylvania MV lamps made in the late 70s actually aged better than those made 10 years earlier.

May all the great lighting technologies have their place in history.

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Apr 30, 2017 at 07:33 PM Author: joseph_125
Actually there is evidence Philips made mercury lamps lower quality at least in the North American market. For example the standard clear 175w mercury lamp from the published catalogues:

Westinghouse 1975 Catalogue

H39KB-175

Rated Life to 50% survival:
24000+ Hours

Initial Lumens
7700

Mean Lumens
6600

Philips 2016 Datasheet

H39KB-175

Rated Life to 50% survival:
15000 Hours

Initial Lumens
7400

Mean Lumens
6660

As you can see the rated life dropped significantly between the 70s Westinghouse and the modern Philips
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