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35w xenon vs 35w metal-halide

35w xenon vs 35w metal-halide


As the title says in this video, a 35w 12v xenon lamp vs a 35 w 230v metal-halide lamp compared.

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Album name:lantern_vision / Lantern Vision's Video Links...
Keywords:Lamps
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Date added:Apr 20, 2011
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Oct 08, 2011 at 11:58 PM Author:
A 12v Xenon of 35w with reflector throws out around 3000 plus Lm but a Philips CDM-T of 35w without reflector emits 3300Lm so the 12v version is less efficient than the 230v one but of course the trade-off is faster run-up time and ability to be run on 12v dc source.
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Oct 09, 2011 at 02:12 PM Author: lantern_vision
And CDm-T gets far more hotter.

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Oct 09, 2011 at 02:59 PM Author: Ash
You could make HF ballast for any input voltage, i doubt the difference has significant relation to the supply
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Oct 09, 2011 at 08:55 PM Author: Medved
Both lamps are MH, the automotive is usually the Na+Sc using Xenon as buffer gas, CDM is the rare earth halides with regular Argon based buffer.

The faster runup of the Xenon vs the regular Argon buffered lamp is linked to two facts:
- The Xenon light by itself even before Mercury and halides evaporate
- The automotive ballast boost the power delivered to the lamp (up to more then twice the nominal) during runup, so the lumen output match the rated one. This result into immediate full output, as well as to fast runup (the runup then demonstrate itself only by the color change)
The consequence of the power boost is the rather short lamp life, compare to the regular MH.

You may try to run the automotive lamp on the regular ballast (it is compatible), you will see, how it run up "normally".
The opposite I would not do, as the automotive ballast would overload the electrodes of the regular MH.

@Ash: The automotive ballast is low frequency square wave, not HF. The HF would catch resonances and kill the lamp.

No more selfballasted c***





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Oct 09, 2011 at 09:13 PM Author:
@ Medved - The 12v one is a DC lamp wouldn't AC damage the electrodes? Where one is the cathode and the other the anode like those DC XBOs.
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Oct 09, 2011 at 09:39 PM Author: Medved
The "12V" is not DC, neither 12V lamp. 12V DC is only it's ballast nominal input. The ballast consist of the (mostly) flyback DCDC converter regulating for constant power, then followed by 4 transistor bridge to swap polarity each few ms (so the result is low frequncy, square wave drive AC). Then follow quite ordinary (by topology) superimposed ignitor. From general lighting mains powered electronic ballast it differ only in the ignitor output voltage (20..30kV, to allow hot restrike) and the ability to compensate for reduced efficacy of the cold lamp by boosting the power. And of course by the input supply voltage (the mains one use rectifier and buck converter, instead of the flyback in the automoive one)

The XBO is, indeed, DC lamp, but the automotive HID is not XBO, it is quite ordinary MH, the 35W is the same 0.5A/75V as any other 35W general lighting lamp.

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Oct 09, 2011 at 09:59 PM Author:
The lowest HID for battery power I have seen is 10w. And the electrodes are different from each other (DC actube) does this have to do with anything with the power of the lamp? And the reviwer as I recall showed the lantern in use where there was uneven mixture of light in the arc.
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Oct 09, 2011 at 10:34 PM Author: Xytrell
I haven't seen a close up of a 35W metal halide lamp, but I have a few automotive HID lamps, and their electrodes are pretty teeny. Is a metal halide lamp's electrodes even smaller?
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Oct 09, 2011 at 10:54 PM Author: Medved
I've seen only some photos of Welch Allyn 10W reflector and 3W arctube prototype, both have been described still as an AC lamp (0.15A/67V for the 10W), but sold only together with the ballast powered from DC13.8V (but dunno, if the ballast was HF or LF).
The lamp asymmetry may well originate from the asymmetrical cooling in the reflector (the side buried in the reflector mass would operate colder) and from the convection in the arctube (even on bigger mains AC lamps, the arc is not always homogenous along it's span).

But I know GE used on their "Electronic halarc" DC arctube, but the reason there was to allow the design of simple ballast from an incandescent filament, C-D multiplier and few high ohmic resistors (power electronic was not yet available at that time). The DC was used, as simple diodes were enough to allow the low current "arc keeper" to be used to maintain the ionisation, when the mains voltage was not enouth around zero-crosses to keep the arc powered.
But this is the only DC powered MH arctube I'm aware of.

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Oct 10, 2011 at 11:01 AM Author:
Nice demo Ahmet, we see clearly the difference between the two technologies

Medved - Ushio also makes a series of DC-driven short-arc metal halide lamps for projection applications - the EmArc.
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Oct 10, 2011 at 12:32 PM Author: lantern_vision
Thanks

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Dec 02, 2011 at 09:08 PM Author: dor123
On which ballast the CDM 35W operates? The CDM lamp flickering. CDM 35W MH lamps designed to operate only on electronic ballasts. There are no magnetic ballasts for 35W CDM lamps.

I"m don't speak English well, and rely on online translating to write in this site.
Please forgive me if my choice of my words looks like offensive, while that isn't my intention.

I only working with the European date format (dd.mm.yyyy).

I lives in Israel, which is a 230-240V, 50hz country.

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Dec 03, 2011 at 01:34 AM Author: Medved
@dor123: The 35W CMH still could operate on a series choke "MH35W" ballast with no problem, the 35W is still rather ordinary characteristic lamp. It's life and color stability are worse then on an electronic ballast (the difference being greater then with higher power lamps), so it may happen, then in order to get better looking figures, the makers rate the light and lifetime performance only on the electronic ballast. And as standards mandate rating lamps on 50/60Hz unless the lamp is explicitly restricted for different drive, they simply restrict them to an electronic ballast to still comply with the standards...
In older catalogs the same lamps were rated for the magnetic ballast, then in newer ones their performance "suddenly improved", but with that came the restriction for an electronic ballast.
20W are a bit different story, they require active arctube temperature stabilization, so a special electronic ballast is a must there. And it was in that way since these low power ones were introduced.

I strongly suspect, it is the case with many fluorescent types: They are "restricted" for HF only to allow to publish the better looking efficacy figures...

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Dec 03, 2011 at 03:23 AM Author: dor123
I simply confused between the 35W and the 20W.
So 20W is the type that can be operated only on electronic ballasts, and the 35W is a standard wattage of MH lamps.

I"m don't speak English well, and rely on online translating to write in this site.
Please forgive me if my choice of my words looks like offensive, while that isn't my intention.

I only working with the European date format (dd.mm.yyyy).

I lives in Israel, which is a 230-240V, 50hz country.

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