Return to the thumbnail page Display/hide file information See previous file See next file

MBF lamps - Old vs. New

MBF lamps - Old vs. New

Click to view full size image

Thorn EMI 80W Kolorlux lamp on the left, which was removed from nightly service last year at around the 120,000 hour mark. Osram HQL80 on the right, lit for the first time.

DSCF3500.JPG DSCF3504.JPG DSCF3479.JPG KOLORLUX_DELUXE_125W_ES.JPG

Light Information

Light Information

Manufacturer:Thorn/Osram
Electrical
Wattage:80W
Voltage:115V
Current:0.8A

File information

File information

Download: Download this File
Filename:DSCF3479.JPG
Album name:SuperSix / Mercury Lamps
Rating (7 votes):
Keywords:Lamps
File Size:198 KB
Date added:Mar 13, 2015
Dimensions:2465 x 1857 pixels
Displayed:495 times
URL:https://www.lighting-gallery.net/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-105580
Favorites:Add to Favorites
Comments
rjluna2
Sr. Member
****
Online

Gender: Male
Posts: 288
View Gallery

Robert


GoL
View Profile Personal Message (Online)
Mar 13, 2015 at 02:32 PM Author: rjluna2
Wow so greenish dimmed out on long lasting bulb!

Pretty, please no more Chinese failure.

merc
Full Member
***
Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 242
View Gallery

Adam


GoL
View Profile Personal Message (Offline)
Mar 13, 2015 at 02:34 PM Author: merc
50,000 hrs.? That's almost unbelievable! I've seen a lantern with a lamp in a similar condition, don't know anything about its hours though.

Not a misoLEDist...

dor123
Hero Member
*****
Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 2537
View Gallery
Other loves are computers, office equipment, A/Cs


View Profile WWW Personal Message (Offline)
Mar 13, 2015 at 02:38 PM Author: dor123
This proves that MV lamps, lasts much longer than LED, which also have a claimed life of 50,000 hours.

I"m don't speak English well, and rely on online translating to write in this site.
Please forgive me if my choice of my words looks like offensive, while that isn't my intention.

I only working with the European date format (dd.mm.yyyy).

I lives in Israel, which is a 230-240V, 50hz country.

SuperSix
Jr. Member
**
Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 86
View Gallery


ATL P42STUFF supersix94
View Profile Personal Message (Offline)
Mar 13, 2015 at 02:46 PM Author: SuperSix
Hold on, that's a mistake. This lamp was original to the installation it was removed from, which is from 1988, and was finally retired in October last year! So that works out to be around 120,000 hours!

Atlas Lamps - Seeing Is Believing!

http://www.youtube.com/user/P42STUFF

merc
Full Member
***
Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 242
View Gallery

Adam


GoL
View Profile Personal Message (Offline)
Mar 13, 2015 at 02:48 PM Author: merc
Five stars to this lamp!

Not a misoLEDist...

SuperSix
Jr. Member
**
Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 86
View Gallery


ATL P42STUFF supersix94
View Profile Personal Message (Offline)
Mar 13, 2015 at 03:00 PM Author: SuperSix
Thanks Lamps like this aren't an uncommon sight around where I am, because they 'still work', they've never been replaced.

Atlas Lamps - Seeing Is Believing!

http://www.youtube.com/user/P42STUFF

Cal
Newbie
*
Offline

Posts: 11
View Gallery
Bottled lightning


View Profile Personal Message (Offline)
Mar 13, 2015 at 03:53 PM Author: Cal
120,000 hours Christ almighty. So dim but, there's one near me in a gamma 6 that must be this dim and green. Lights nothing whatsoever around it. Need to photo it actually..
Kev
Jr. Member
**
Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 94
View Gallery


View Profile Personal Message (Offline)
Mar 13, 2015 at 03:59 PM Author: Kev
I made it 108K hours lol street lighting I always use a 4000 hour per year rule of thumb but still bloody amazing beat that LED.

Voted to leave the EU and proud! 👉🏻🇪🇺🇬🇧

dor123
Hero Member
*****
Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 2537
View Gallery
Other loves are computers, office equipment, A/Cs


View Profile WWW Personal Message (Offline)
Mar 13, 2015 at 04:08 PM Author: dor123
The only LEDs that I've seen lasts more than this lamp, are the traditional indicator LED lamps. I've never seen white LEDs and solid state lighting that lasts that long.

I"m don't speak English well, and rely on online translating to write in this site.
Please forgive me if my choice of my words looks like offensive, while that isn't my intention.

I only working with the European date format (dd.mm.yyyy).

I lives in Israel, which is a 230-240V, 50hz country.

Kev
Jr. Member
**
Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 94
View Gallery


View Profile Personal Message (Offline)
Mar 13, 2015 at 04:17 PM Author: Kev
Even HPS lamps seem have been known to last the 60-65K mark!

Voted to leave the EU and proud! 👉🏻🇪🇺🇬🇧

Danny
Full Member
***
Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 154
View Gallery


View Profile Personal Message (Offline)
Mar 13, 2015 at 05:00 PM Author: Danny
Ive got a Thorn EMI merc in a similar state to this one! Yeah beat that LED
lantern_vision
Newbie
*
Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 32
View Gallery

|><| Be RATIONAL |><|


View Profile Personal Message (Offline)
Mar 13, 2015 at 05:06 PM Author: lantern_vision
Another tangible reason for me to like MV lamps. They last forever...

><@hm><

don93s
Sr. Member
****
Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 425
View Gallery


View Profile Personal Message (Offline)
Mar 13, 2015 at 06:44 PM Author: don93s
Nice ! Though it resembles a late 90's U.S. Philips made M.V. after an hour....er, ok, a few thousand, lol.
themaritimegirl
Hero Member
*****
Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 892
View Gallery

Florence


themaritimegirl themaritimegirl themaritimegirl
View Profile WWW Personal Message (Offline)
Mar 13, 2015 at 08:10 PM Author: themaritimegirl
Wow!

Coincidentally, I just uploaded a photo similar to this, although the lamps in mine are at 750 and 0 hours. I didn't see this one before I uploaded mine lol.

Electrical Engineering Graduate
YouTube | Twitter | Instagram

TheUniversalDave1
Sr. Member
****
Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 404
View Gallery


View Profile Personal Message (Offline)
Mar 13, 2015 at 08:49 PM Author: TheUniversalDave1
Holy Moly! 120,000 hours is astounding!

"If people only knew how much I secretly hated them, they'd love me for holding it in." -Matt Groening

Colin Attard
Newbie
*
Offline

Posts: 1
View Gallery

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)
Mar 14, 2015 at 01:22 AM Author: Colin Attard
MV lamps definitely have the longest life with the least chance of malfunction from it's control gear, the fact that they have been banned is not an environmental issue but a big business issue. Like a Mafia agreement between environmentalists, governments and lamps and lanterns producers. It was an excuse about the mercury and now they are pushing the CFL's full of mercury.
Mercurylamps
Hero Member
*****
Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 517
View Gallery

240V 50Hz


View Profile Personal Message (Offline)
Mar 14, 2015 at 01:51 AM Author: Mercurylamps
The very simple control gear (for 240v countries like where I live) and long lamp life make MV a great long lasting solution. A shame how they are being banned. One of my favourite light sources.
dor123
Hero Member
*****
Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 2537
View Gallery
Other loves are computers, office equipment, A/Cs


View Profile WWW Personal Message (Offline)
Mar 14, 2015 at 04:07 AM Author: dor123
120,000 hours is even more than induction.

I"m don't speak English well, and rely on online translating to write in this site.
Please forgive me if my choice of my words looks like offensive, while that isn't my intention.

I only working with the European date format (dd.mm.yyyy).

I lives in Israel, which is a 230-240V, 50hz country.

Kappa7
Jr. Member
**
Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 58
View Gallery

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)
Mar 14, 2015 at 07:43 AM Author: Kappa7
Normally a lamp(and LED) is considered eol when it emits less than 70% of the nominal lumens. This lamp seem to emits less than 10% of the new one so it should be considered eol since a long time.

By the way I've saw recently one of the first LEDs installation in a tunnel in Italy (it was installed about in 2006, so they have burnt for 80000hours): the wast majority of the lamps are still working, but they are much more dim and greened out similar to this lamp. The rare replaced lamps are very much brighter and whiter.




Posts:
View Gallery

View Profile Email
Mar 14, 2015 at 08:02 AM Author:
Kappa7 > exactly! if we apply the same L70 definition of lifetime to mercury lamps, then it never exceeds about 20-24 khrs as their output flux drops below 70% of initial level quite rapidly. In comparison, modern HPS lamps perform better as they have a much greater L70 value.
ResR
Newbie
*
Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 7
View Gallery


Martin Lelle resr1286
View Profile WWW Personal Message (Offline)
Mar 14, 2015 at 08:11 AM Author: ResR
I have seen a similar dimmed out MV bulb on my way home from Rapla by the side of the road, but haven't been able to take a picture of it yet.

http://www.lighting-gallery.net/gallery/index.php?cat=11837

Kev
Jr. Member
**
Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 94
View Gallery


View Profile Personal Message (Offline)
Mar 14, 2015 at 08:30 AM Author: Kev
Well maybe if more time and investment was made with Mercury lamps the efficiency and life time could of been increased and maybe something put in place to reduce / prevent blackening of the arc tube but these days everyone seems to be LED obsessed.

Voted to leave the EU and proud! 👉🏻🇪🇺🇬🇧

Medved
Hero Member
*****
Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 4252
View Gallery

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)
Mar 14, 2015 at 09:12 AM Author: Medved
This is not case of "MV lasting longer than 25khour", but books example of complete failure of the maintenance and a result of the "it still works, so why to replace it" false economy habit.
This lamp should have been replaced decades ago and not consuming power all the time, when it didn't give off any light. In other words if that amount of light was sufficient, why there weren't just some 25W incandescent or 8W fluorescent?
This is, where the MV installations got the score of low efficacy systems. And what then yield to their extinction...
And once the LED's reliability will improve, they will suffer from the same: Because of the stupid "it still works", overaged lamps still consuming power, but not giving off any useful light.

I think this arrangement really deserves to be framed in gold shown to the public...

No more selfballasted c***

SuperSix
Jr. Member
**
Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 86
View Gallery


ATL P42STUFF supersix94
View Profile Personal Message (Offline)
Mar 14, 2015 at 09:28 AM Author: SuperSix
I agree, it's important to consider that while this lamp still works, it's completely useless and probably has been for many years. I'm certainly going to keep it though, as an example of just how incredibly long these lamps can run for.

Atlas Lamps - Seeing Is Believing!

http://www.youtube.com/user/P42STUFF





Posts:
View Gallery

View Profile Email
Mar 14, 2015 at 09:29 AM Author:
Kev > how much more time do you think should be devoted to the improvement of the mercury lamp? HPMV lamps have been around for 83 years, or three decades more than any other HID technology... Last time people tried to significantly improve the mercury lamp, it resulted in the introduction of the metal halide lamp. I think the high-pressure mercury lamp technology really has ran its course.
Nevertheless, they still are very nice collecting items and I really like them as such (just got myself another one this afternoon )
Kev
Jr. Member
**
Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 94
View Gallery


View Profile Personal Message (Offline)
Mar 14, 2015 at 10:13 AM Author: Kev
It's simple reliable technology I feel it has a place in modern lighting. Look how much investment LED has had over the last decade I'm sure if just a fraction of that was invested in older technologies we would have some improvement for existing installations.

Voted to leave the EU and proud! 👉🏻🇪🇺🇬🇧

Alights
Full Member
***
Offline

Posts: 129
View Gallery

USA (120V 60HZ)


View Profile Personal Message (Offline)
Mar 14, 2015 at 10:22 AM Author: Alights
the lifeguard lamps would do the same hours and still be nearly just as bright. I know of some with 300,000 hrs in use at a mall.some are really dim though, I haven't been there recently but most lamps are from the 70s and 80s I bet,they run about 10 hrs a day..the newer replacement MV lamps don't seem to go as long before just failing completely or getting dimmer




Posts:
View Gallery

View Profile Email
Mar 14, 2015 at 10:23 AM Author:
Well, the point is that this investment in improving the older technology has already been made in the past decades, and the mercury lamps are now as good they get. Of course, you could introduce some fancy technology for e.g. the electrodeless excitation of the discharge (i.e. to remove the electrodes), but the overall system then becomes either too expensive to be a commercial success, or its reliability becomes compromised due to the over-complexification of the base lamp platform.

The key strength of the mercury technology lies in its simplicity: the standard design has been established 60 years ago and is thus cheap to manufacture, its chemistry is simple and non aggressive while the power load is limited, which result in long life. This is this particular combination of factors which leads to a lamp platform having a low cost price and decent life and efficiency specs. Try to make this technology better and either one of these characteristics will be compromised: the cost price will go up or the service life will decrease. All in all, there is no such a thing as a free lunch in lamp engineering, and considerable efforts were already spent at improving the mercury lamp (the technology was not always as good as it is today), and better price/performances balances were found with the addition of sodium vapor or of metal halides, which led to new HID lamps families - these are the true results of the improvement efforts that were directed at mercury lamps, especially because these were the best outcomes possible with regard engineering possibilities. This was true then and this is still true to this day.
Kev
Jr. Member
**
Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 94
View Gallery


View Profile Personal Message (Offline)
Mar 14, 2015 at 11:10 AM Author: Kev
Well why do older Mercury lamps last far longer than the new ones we see??

Voted to leave the EU and proud! 👉🏻🇪🇺🇬🇧





Posts:
View Gallery

View Profile Email
Mar 14, 2015 at 11:16 AM Author:
You have to blame the maturation of technology and China for this one - and again, what is the point of a lamp lasting 100+ khrs if its light output has been reduced to that of a candle while it still gulps the same amount of power as the first day? Today's mercury lamp technology is optimized in the sense that its actual service life matches or slightly exceeds its economical life, and this precisely prevents users from having their lighting systems becoming ridiculously inefficient and power wasting over time. Today's HPMV lamps have the good sense of snuffing themselves out before they become impractically inefficient - So again, present mercury lamps are as good at they get.
Kev
Jr. Member
**
Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 94
View Gallery


View Profile Personal Message (Offline)
Mar 14, 2015 at 11:57 AM Author: Kev
Well that's not true I installed a load of 80 philips and osram MV lamps in 2010 the output is useless already when I go back to relamp them I'm going to be using 70W SON I Clear lamps. The MV have gone dim way before the 20K mark.

Voted to leave the EU and proud! 👉🏻🇪🇺🇬🇧





Posts:
View Gallery

View Profile Email
Mar 14, 2015 at 12:00 PM Author:
I never said that product quality is the best across all manufacturers and all lamp models There are some excellent mercury lamps out there but not everyone is selling them... (or buying them, for that matter)

The 20-24 khrs life rating of HPMV lamps marks the point of 50% failure. A good maintenance practice requires that all lamps are changed at the point of 20% failure, which in the case of standard mercury lamps is about 2.5-3 years after installation, not five. The Philips HPL4, one of the best type of mercury lamps out there, is specified for a 4 year maintenance cycle, at which point the flux per lamp should be around 70% of initial level (here comes the L70 economic life).

Do you plan on replacing the mercury lamps by SON/I 70W lamps? If so, watch out for ballast fire or severe damage as these mercury lamp chokes do not take the higher operating current and the initial short-circuiting from the glow starter too well... better use retrofit lamps if you can still get them before their ban next month.
Kev
Jr. Member
**
Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 94
View Gallery


View Profile Personal Message (Offline)
Mar 14, 2015 at 12:21 PM Author: Kev
The potted philips heavy duty chokes that I used will take SON I no problem at all!
I bet you if I took a classic NOS philips 1970s or early 80s HPMV lamp and ran the modern day equilivant HPL-4 after the 4 year period the vintage lamp would be brighter. Stuff is made cheaper these days no 2 ways about it.

Voted to leave the EU and proud! 👉🏻🇪🇺🇬🇧





Posts:
View Gallery

View Profile Email
Mar 14, 2015 at 12:45 PM Author:
Stuff may be made cheaper these days, but material quality is undoubtly better (in most cases) than 30 years ago. As for your bet, we can't really know the outcome since we don't have the maintenance figures related to HPL-N lamps produced 30-40 years ago. However, I just checked the 1985 US Philips catalog which lists the initial and the average (over 16 khrs) lumen outputs of their HID lamps. This should give a pretty good idea about the situation with regard flux maintenance now and then. The '85 H43AY-75/DX (equivalent to the HPL-N 80W, same phosphor and nearly same burner) has a listed averaged flux of 80% of initial level. The figure over the same 16 khrs period for the HPL4 80W/642 is 89%. That's an 11% percent improvement in maintenance. Now, if actual lamps in the field do not yield this improvement, then this is more a problem of quality control than one of technology optimization.
Alights
Full Member
***
Offline

Posts: 129
View Gallery

USA (120V 60HZ)


View Profile Personal Message (Offline)
Mar 14, 2015 at 01:06 PM Author: Alights
too bad you guys don't have westy lifeguard lamps there, id bet they'd outlast and have a better "L70" then a standard MV and even the specs on paper aren't real world. people like myself in the field know that, not doubting your knowledge




Posts:
View Gallery

View Profile Email
Mar 14, 2015 at 01:11 PM Author:
I understand your point of view and the fact that Westy's (later Philips) lifeguard lamps seem to be held in high esteem amongst American lighting enthusiasts. However, the H43AY-75/DX lamp whose specs I compared with a HPL4 in my previous post is actually a Lifeguard lamp.

Anyway, comparing the performances of mercury lamps in the field 30-40 years apart is like comparing similar clothes of slighty different colors in two different shops. For one part we are not objective because there is no single reference to which each case can be compared to, and for the other part there is a strong variation in the condition of the test, which for lamps is a different luminaire, ballast, operating voltage, temperature, etc. Finally, the most reliable way of comparing the lamp performances is via the manufacturer's specs which were measured under controlled conditions, hence providing the common reference needed for reliable and systematic test conditions.
Kev
Jr. Member
**
Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 94
View Gallery


View Profile Personal Message (Offline)
Mar 14, 2015 at 01:19 PM Author: Kev
Yeh what's on the paper doesn't necessarily happen in the real world sadly. Same kind of stuff where LED manufactures quoting 100kh for there led tubes and their in land fill by 4 lol

Voted to leave the EU and proud! 👉🏻🇪🇺🇬🇧

Alights
Full Member
***
Offline

Posts: 129
View Gallery

USA (120V 60HZ)


View Profile Personal Message (Offline)
Mar 14, 2015 at 01:25 PM Author: Alights
ahh cool! didn't know lifeguard lamps were there too, just not labelled with the name i guess, also seems like 50-100W MV lamps loose their output faster than the 175W, 250W or 400W? the 1KW seems to loose lumens quick like the 50-100W sizes




Posts:
View Gallery

View Profile Email
Mar 14, 2015 at 01:26 PM Author:
indeed, there is too often a large departure between the published specs and the actually realized ones. The LED industry still has a lot of efforts to do in this respect!

Alight > I meant that the H43AY-75/DX, which is US-made, is a Lifeguard lamp - the HPL4 is not, although the technology involved is nearly similar.
And yes, the flux maintenance is affected by the mercury lamp burner design. The smallest mercury lamps are affected by the small dimention of their burner, which results in a strong impact from the electrode evaporation, while the largest mercury lamps suffer from a low mercury vapor pressure which results in faster electrode evaporation. The ideal lamp design with regard flux maintenance is around 250-400 W, where there is an ideal balance between burner dimension and mercury vapor pressure.
Kev
Jr. Member
**
Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 94
View Gallery


View Profile Personal Message (Offline)
Mar 14, 2015 at 01:49 PM Author: Kev
At the end of the day IF they do get the LED lamps reliable it's going to loose a lot of maintenance guys including myself a lot of easy relamping work.

Voted to leave the EU and proud! 👉🏻🇪🇺🇬🇧

Alights
Full Member
***
Offline

Posts: 129
View Gallery

USA (120V 60HZ)


View Profile Personal Message (Offline)
Mar 14, 2015 at 01:51 PM Author: Alights
yeah same here..would be a sad day.. most of the replacement on LED's ive done so far is the "drivers"
Kev
Jr. Member
**
Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 94
View Gallery


View Profile Personal Message (Offline)
Mar 14, 2015 at 02:04 PM Author: Kev
Yep drivers are crap. A good 70% of my work is lighting maintenance / repair if lighting goes 100% reliable I'll be out of work

Voted to leave the EU and proud! 👉🏻🇪🇺🇬🇧

streetlight98
Sr. Member
****
Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 329
View Gallery

Mike McCann


GoL Mike McCann 88219189@N04/albums
View Profile WWW Personal Message (Offline)
Mar 14, 2015 at 07:08 PM Author: streetlight98
@ Kev: a chemical was applied to MV lamps to retard the blackening of the arctube (and maintain higher LPW for longer) in the 1960s but manufacturers soon realized that the lamps were lasting "too long" so they stopped using it (with the exception of Westinghouse, who kept using the chemical until Philips took them over and destroyed everything Westinghouse stood for). GE called their slow-blackening MVs "Bonusline" lamps, Sylvania called them "Banner" lamps, and the Westinghouse ones were the famed "Lifeguard" lamps. The 175W Lifeguards seem to have been the best at avoiding dimming. Most 175W lifeguards that are still in use are at least 70% of their initial lumens. And that's after 35+ years.

Please check out my newly-updated website! McCann Lighting Company is where my street light collection is displayed in detail.

themaritimegirl
Hero Member
*****
Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 892
View Gallery

Florence


themaritimegirl themaritimegirl themaritimegirl
View Profile WWW Personal Message (Offline)
Mar 14, 2015 at 07:11 PM Author: themaritimegirl
Ah, so the Lifeguard name denotes that anti-blackening technology? And I assume ones made in the 80s and 90s don't use it despite retaining the Lifeguard name?

Electrical Engineering Graduate
YouTube | Twitter | Instagram

streetlight98
Sr. Member
****
Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 329
View Gallery

Mike McCann


GoL Mike McCann 88219189@N04/albums
View Profile WWW Personal Message (Offline)
Mar 14, 2015 at 07:19 PM Author: streetlight98
Yep, lifeguard lamps have an anti-blackening chemical, though eventually the lamp still inevitably dims out. Ones below 175W seemed to still dim out quickly though. And yes, any lifeguard lamp has the anti-blackening chemical regardless of the year. Some Philips lamps may or may not though, since some lamps were made on Norelco machinery and others on the original Westinghouse machinery. Not sure why Westinghouse didn't ditch the anti-blackening chemical in the 60s like GE and Sylvania but my only guess is that they cared about the quality of their products over their bottom line (which unfortunately is probably why they went belly-up and got swallowed up by Philips, which is the polar opposite of Westie and king of screwing over the consumer with complete crap products. I hate Philips with a passion.

Please check out my newly-updated website! McCann Lighting Company is where my street light collection is displayed in detail.

TheUniversalDave1
Sr. Member
****
Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 404
View Gallery


View Profile Personal Message (Offline)
Mar 14, 2015 at 08:17 PM Author: TheUniversalDave1
So you think my 1987 175 Philips Lifeguard lamps have the anti blackening chemical? I too thought it was phased out in the 60's, or at least when Philips swallowed Westinghouse.

"If people only knew how much I secretly hated them, they'd love me for holding it in." -Matt Groening

streetlight98
Sr. Member
****
Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 329
View Gallery

Mike McCann


GoL Mike McCann 88219189@N04/albums
View Profile WWW Personal Message (Offline)
Mar 14, 2015 at 08:28 PM Author: streetlight98
If it says lifeguard on the etch and sleeve, then yes it should have it. Do you have a link to the lamp? Easiest way to tell is look at the arc tube after the lamp has done some hours. I think the "blackening" actually appears white and once the chemical is absorbed by the "blackening" it turns black. I think it was a fairly simple concept, nothing too crazy. The presence of the chemical made the "blackening" on the arc tube to appear white, which kept the lumens from dropping as much. The chemical would eventually be absorbed by the "blackening" so i guess the more chemical used, the longer the lamp would stay bright. Not sure if there's a limit as to how much of the chemical could be used (like if operation would be affected by a large enough quantity of the chemical in the arc tube). I don't know what chemical was used either.

Please check out my newly-updated website! McCann Lighting Company is where my street light collection is displayed in detail.

ace100w120v
Hero Member
*****
Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 671
View Gallery


View Profile Personal Message (Offline)
Mar 14, 2015 at 10:17 PM Author: ace100w120v
I have a couple circa-1993 Philips ED28 clear 175w lamps. They have some hours, but not that many relatively speaking...spent the majority of 22 years in non-use. But...they have WHITENING on their arc tubes! Is this normal for even the cheapest Caster lamps you can buy at Walmart or not? Because I'm wondering if mine actually have a 'Lifeguard' arc tube, despite being attached to a rattly Philips frame assembly.
Kev
Jr. Member
**
Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 94
View Gallery


View Profile Personal Message (Offline)
Mar 15, 2015 at 12:11 AM Author: Kev
@streetlight98 so what your saying is....I'm right?

Voted to leave the EU and proud! 👉🏻🇪🇺🇬🇧

Medved
Hero Member
*****
Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 4252
View Gallery

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)
Mar 15, 2015 at 12:31 AM Author: Medved
The thing with the "lifeguard" or equivalent treatment was, the lamp maintained the efficacy without any droop through the rated life. But after then it get spent and the tube start to blacken anyway. This was indeed one of the last improvement in MV's (when not counting the MH family), it was, what boosted the life to the guaranteed 25khour level.
The difference compare to previous was, the previous lamp[s start to blacken quite severely way before the 24khour mark.
Observing how the latest lamps behave (white deposit before the end of the life rating), it does not look that treatment was abandoned, but the arctube loading was increased to further boost the efficacy (before that, the arctube loading was limited by the blackening rate), so the life rating remained at the common 24khour.

The reason is again the real economy calculations of trade off between the life rating vs efficacy: Boosting the life beyond 4 years wouldn't save any money of the user (the lamp posts need maintenance anyway, new bulb cost is there virtually nothing), while the extra energy consumption coming from the need of higher installed power would cost way more (mainly during the energy crisis).

No more selfballasted c***

streetlight98
Sr. Member
****
Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 329
View Gallery

Mike McCann


GoL Mike McCann 88219189@N04/albums
View Profile WWW Personal Message (Offline)
Mar 15, 2015 at 06:27 AM Author: streetlight98
@ Andy; depends. Is it just like fog forming on the arc tube at the ends or is it like a true opaque white? If the latter, then it's a lifeguard! If it's a fog with some sign or blackening forming then it's a regular lamp. Cheapo Chinese mercs have the fog and turn black just like "normal" MVs do.

@ Kev; I don't think anyone is really right or wrong about it but yes, improvements could be made to the MV lamp (i.e. bringing back the "lifeguard" era lamps) but I don't ever see that happening. Lamp manufacturers just care about their bottom line. The chemical allowed MV lamps to maintain above 70% brightness for well past their rated life. Some out there are still as bright as new and were installed in the 1960s!

Please check out my newly-updated website! McCann Lighting Company is where my street light collection is displayed in detail.

SuperSix
Jr. Member
**
Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 86
View Gallery


ATL P42STUFF supersix94
View Profile Personal Message (Offline)
Mar 15, 2015 at 07:06 AM Author: SuperSix
Didn't Osram also market a non blackening lamp for a few years? I've never seen one though.

These old Thorn lamps use braided tungsten electrodes, similar to to those used in their fluorescent tubes. Probably the reason why this lamp has lasted so long!

Atlas Lamps - Seeing Is Believing!

http://www.youtube.com/user/P42STUFF

ggillis
Full Member
***
Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 100
View Gallery

AEL 175W NEMA


View Profile Personal Message (Offline)
Mar 15, 2015 at 07:46 AM Author: ggillis
I have a 400W General Electric mercury vapor bulb made in the mid 90's and the arc tube has an opaque white color to it.

Red Seal Electrician

Click on the link below to view my gallery:

http://www.lighting-gallery.net/gallery/index.php?cat=11790

Medved
Hero Member
*****
Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 4252
View Gallery

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)
Mar 17, 2015 at 11:30 AM Author: Medved
For sure the "4years" type marketed in Europe last few years are of this type and I§m convinced the chemical was used all the time. But the design was modified to boost the efficacy, what bring higher load for all the component, so the lifetime gain was eaten back by the higher loading, so become the same as before the introduction of the "LifeGuard", just the efficacy becomes higher (that is, what the redesign had aimed).

The chemical prolong the efficacy as long it lasts. Generally it makes the lumen maintenance curve rather rectangular (minor change during the life, faster drop down after the end of life). The dosing is designed to guarantee the lumen maintenance over the rated life, so there is some margin designed in. But too much of it does not help either - even the white coat absorbs some of the light, although by far not that much as the dark metal.

No more selfballasted c***

© 2005-2019 Lighting-Gallery.net | Powered by: Coppermine Photo Gallery