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The idiots in Carmel hospital, installed drop ceiling with LED panels at the entrance to Carmel hospital

The idiots in Carmel hospital, installed drop ceiling with LED panels at the entrance to Carmel hospital

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As a result, the place is overlit, and the former Chinese 54W T5 HO weatherpacks buried above the tiles while still operating.

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Album name:dor123 / LED lighting (Except road lanterns), LEDs in general, lasers, flashlights and other lighting gadgets
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suzukir122
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Mar 15, 2019 at 11:59 AM Author: suzukir122
I'm willing to bet this is temporary, of course. There's no way they'll keep those F54T5 fixtures running when they're finished with the tiles
completely. I hate it when people install drop ceilings though while leaving former fixtures up there...

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Mar 15, 2019 at 12:09 PM Author: dor123
I don't think that this is temporary. It is common in Israel, to use drop ceiling to hide lazy installations of stuff like wiring and pipes.

I"m don't speak English well, and rely on online translating to write in this site.
Please forgive me if my choice of my words looks like offensive, while that isn't my intention.

I only working with the European date format (dd.mm.yyyy).

I lives in Israel, which is a 230-240V, 50hz country.

suzukir122
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Mar 15, 2019 at 12:17 PM Author: suzukir122
No, I meant the incomplete tile set up, is temporary, with these F54T5's still running. I know the tile set up in general
is definitely/unfortunately permanent, and when they're finished, they'll disconnect the F54T5 fixtures and likely leave them
up there. This is the kind of drop ceiling work I can't stand... added to that, the unreliable LED panels.

Interests
1. Motorcycles, Women, and Lighting (especially fluorescent)
2. Weighting/staying extremely athletic
3. Severe Thunderstorms of all kinds
4. Food and drinks. So gimme them bbq ribs
Yep
Lighting has been a passion of mine since I was born. I consider everyone on LG to be a friend

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Mar 15, 2019 at 02:08 PM Author: rjluna2

Pretty, please no more Chinese failure.

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Mar 15, 2019 at 02:41 PM Author: Ash
Considering that i seen multiple FL installations and one MH lowbay (!) being sealed in a drop ceiling, and left there connected and working after the end of all works - i won't bet that they will be disconnected here
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Mar 15, 2019 at 08:24 PM Author: joseph_125
Seen the same thing here too, a drop ceiling was installed to replace the original asbestos tile ceiling and they left the original lighting wired and running above the drop ceiling. In that case the drop ceiling was installed because of asbestos abatement.

Another case I saw vintage row mounted T12 RS louver fixtures sealed above a drywall ceiling for 20 years until the next reno. Those I think at least got disconnected.
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Mar 15, 2019 at 08:47 PM Author: xmaslightguy
I kinda like how they did this ceiling...but it would have looked a whole lot better if they had centered that divider strip

I've seen fluorescent fixtures get covered up by a drop ceiling, but they got disconnected before it was finished. (their power was connected to the new lights)
I'm sure if you went through & looked in older commercial/school/store/office buildings, that sort of thing is done all the time.
Might be partly done to save cost...they don't have to pay a crew to go & remove all those old lights.
It is beyond me why anyone would leave them connected though

Colored Fluorescent's such as F40T12 Red or  Green or Blue are awesome...

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Mar 15, 2019 at 11:47 PM Author: suzukir122
I've also seen drop ceilings covering up former fluorescent lighting as well. I remember when I was a kid, the Florrisant Missouri library my
family went to on a daily bases, had the drop ceiling as well. I don't know why a ceiling tile had been moved, but directly above
it was another ceiling, and a 1 lamp F40T12 strip fixture. Looked to have been rows of them, since another one was directly attached (with a
missing bulb) Even as a kid, I was sooo mad at the fact that I had seen that. This was a long time ago, so the main source of lighting was
parabolic 3 lamp T8 troffers, with Philip Alto's. Middle of the library had a very high ceiling though, with metal halide uplighting, and...
two disconnected U-bent T12 troffers.

Interests
1. Motorcycles, Women, and Lighting (especially fluorescent)
2. Weighting/staying extremely athletic
3. Severe Thunderstorms of all kinds
4. Food and drinks. So gimme them bbq ribs
Yep
Lighting has been a passion of mine since I was born. I consider everyone on LG to be a friend

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Mar 16, 2019 at 06:26 AM Author: Ash
My biggest objection with drop ceilings installed as a retrofit, is how much they reduce the room space. Architects made great to be in spaces with great high ceilings, then it is all taken away

Sometimes it also interferes with other objects in the room such as high windows that go all the way to the original ceiling - rendering them non functional, or having to get the ceiling around them, which more often than not, look plain bad

Sometimes it is to hide pipes and other systems - But very often, the drop ceiling could be installed much higher to achieve this function. In many cases the distance it needs to be below the original ceiling is the depth of a modular luminaire + tiny clearance to insert it into the grid, yet they drop 2..3ft or more below the original ceiling !

Sometimes the pipes etc could have been installed in a way that interferes very little with the room, so that the drop ceiling won't be needed at all - Installed neatly and in straight lines, using all proper parts, mountings, raceways etc - This especially applies in spaces where the ceiling is not flat but exposes the beams and structures holding it or the roof by design

Especially insulting i think are the places where a 2nd drop ceiling is installed to hide systems installed below the first one
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Mar 16, 2019 at 07:21 AM Author: suzukir122
@Ash, I agree... I also hate the fact that drop ceilings reduce room space. This was the case with my Elementary school (a little after I left)
and my middle school. I barely got to see any of the Louvered T12 fixtures the classrooms had, since they installed dropped ceilings and 2 lamp
T8 troffers. Only time I saw them was during a visit there when my older bro had after school detention. My mom took me along and I got to meet
my older bros teacher before his detention. This was way before the drop ceiling... and they had unique Louvered fixtures in rows, and high ceilings
in each classroom. But when I made it to middle school, the drop ceiling and new troffers, had been installed already. I was too late. lol
My elementary school had unique vaulted ceilings in the upstairs classrooms, and two metallic ceiling fans. 5 louvered T12 fixtures to the right and
left of each classroom, and 4 to the front. (hpf rapid start) All taken down in favor of drop ceilings... which means no more unique vaulted ceilings.
Also, the drop ceilings in my middle school did cover up the top portion of each window.

Interests
1. Motorcycles, Women, and Lighting (especially fluorescent)
2. Weighting/staying extremely athletic
3. Severe Thunderstorms of all kinds
4. Food and drinks. So gimme them bbq ribs
Yep
Lighting has been a passion of mine since I was born. I consider everyone on LG to be a friend

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Mar 16, 2019 at 10:41 AM Author: streetlight98
They did this at the grocery store I worked at a few years ago. When they remodeled they tore down the drop ceiling, revealing continuous rows of F40T12 rapid start strips installed on an old tile ceiling that were STILL ENERGIZED! Incredibly I think a couple still worked, but most had completely dead lamps or were EOL but glowing. They had ripped the channel covers off certain lights and stole power out of them to feed the "night lights", which were a few scattered T8 troffers on the drop ceiling that ran 24/7 for security lighting. The rest of the lights had their own power ran to them, on switches in the back of the store.

I personally like drop ceilings when there is an open-beam ceiling. WalMart is a huge example of is. I HATE their newer store designs with the open warehouse type ceilings. Their older stores with drop ceiling look much nicer. I think all the exposed beams, bulky HVAC ductwork, and air handlers look very ugly as well as all the sprinkler pipes. Not to mention, it's a lot harder to cool a building in the summer with no ceiling. All the heat from the sun just radiates right through the roof into the building. Granted, that makes heating in the winter easier but heat uses much less power than air conditioning. I just think the whole "open ceiling" concept is very utilitarian and ugly. I'd much rather have a ceiling in the building, be it a drop ceiling or a sheetrock ceiling.

To resist is to piss in the wind, anyone who does will end up smelling.

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Mar 16, 2019 at 11:22 AM Author: suzukir122
I agree with the old school Walmart ceiling, especially back when they had the nice, reliable slimlines in use. Now all the Walmarts I know
of, have LED's, much like the ones in this pic, or, warehouse ceilings.
@Streetlight98, so they literally kept feeding power to the F40T12 strips??? That plus the new lights = higher energy bill, I would think. lol
That's the kind of drop ceiling idea I seriously can't stand. At all.

Interests
1. Motorcycles, Women, and Lighting (especially fluorescent)
2. Weighting/staying extremely athletic
3. Severe Thunderstorms of all kinds
4. Food and drinks. So gimme them bbq ribs
Yep
Lighting has been a passion of mine since I was born. I consider everyone on LG to be a friend

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Mar 16, 2019 at 05:57 PM Author: streetlight98
Yeah the old lights and the new lights were powered! The walmarts here are still t8.

To resist is to piss in the wind, anyone who does will end up smelling.

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Mar 16, 2019 at 07:57 PM Author: Liam
To be honest i like it when they leave old fittings above suspended ceilings as in 40-50 years time a collector who maybe an electrician might come along spot them whilst doing some work above the ceiling and remove them and pass them onto other collectors. That's probably how most fittings and Tubes/lamps enter collections.

My gallery http://www.lighting-gallery.net/gallery/index.php?cat=11495

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Mar 16, 2019 at 08:14 PM Author: streetlight98
Agreed. Better than trashing them IMO, though leaving them powered is a bit wasteful. Waste of electricity and good bulbs/ballasts!

To resist is to piss in the wind, anyone who does will end up smelling.

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Mar 16, 2019 at 08:43 PM Author: xmaslightguy
Quote
I just think the whole "open ceiling" concept is very utilitarian and ugly.

I agree that the 'open ceiling' thing is pretty ugly (especially as time goes on, and more wires/pipes/etc get added, and usually not matching the color of the original stuff)
The 'open ceiling' works/looks fine in in a warehouse or industrial building though.

Colored Fluorescent's such as F40T12 Red or  Green or Blue are awesome...

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Mar 17, 2019 at 07:41 AM Author: streetlight98
I agree, the open ceiling does have its place. Places like you mentioned plus gymnasiums or whatever.

To resist is to piss in the wind, anyone who does will end up smelling.

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Mar 17, 2019 at 09:23 AM Author: dor123
Update: They removed the 2x54W T5 HO weatherpacks from the upper ceiling:


The non working panels are turned off.

I"m don't speak English well, and rely on online translating to write in this site.
Please forgive me if my choice of my words looks like offensive, while that isn't my intention.

I only working with the European date format (dd.mm.yyyy).

I lives in Israel, which is a 230-240V, 50hz country.

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Mar 17, 2019 at 10:40 AM Author: streetlight98
Geeze they're just going to leave the wires like that?! If there's no box in the ceiling they should have placed a box over the hole in the ceiling (with a knockout punched out on the back of the box) and had the splices contained in there. That would be the proper way to do it here in the US, but I'm not remotely familiar with the electric codes in Israel.

To resist is to piss in the wind, anyone who does will end up smelling.

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Mar 17, 2019 at 12:55 PM Author: Ash
There is a box embedded in the ceiling. The wires should be inserted into the box and closed with a cover. Unfortunately, in most cases, don't expect contractors to follow code where noone can see or cares to check

As for open beam ceilings - I think they are great if they are made to look good (all parts installed precisely and uniformly) and are not cluttered with wiring and systems. The best is when they go along with translucent roof panels, that let in dimmed daylight during the day and look dark at night
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Mar 17, 2019 at 01:48 PM Author: streetlight98
Ah OK. I wasn't sure if there was a box or if it was just a gaping hole. In situations where a fluorescent fixture it mounted to the ceiling like this, it's common in the US for the wire to come right through the finished ceiling into a knockout on top of the light, with all splices being made inside the fixture.

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Mar 17, 2019 at 04:31 PM Author: Ash
Our methods of wiring are basically different from the US :

Flexible PVC pipe is laid in the ceiling and walls during construction (on the forms before casting in the concrete, or in the wall voids before closing the wall)

After construction, the wiring is pulled into the pipes - and can be replaced later without demolition

The wiring is single isolated conductors - You choose which ones to pull in. If for example you are wiring an 16A power circuit that also powers 3 way lighting, then you will pull in 5 conductors :

Phase 2.5mm2 (Brown)
Neutral 2.5mm2 (Blue)
Earth 2.5mm2 (Green and Yellow. We don't use bare Earth conductors, except for bonding)
2x Switch circuit conductors 1.5mm2 (Brown with Black stripe + Brown with Orange stripe)

Luminaires are installed either over the end of the pipe coming from the ceiling (cheap way but allowed), or over a box in the ceiling (proper way). In the case of a box, if it have more splices than just the lighting ones, it is considered best (but not required) to keep all splices in the box and only pigtail the relevant wires from there to the light
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Mar 17, 2019 at 07:36 PM Author: joseph_125
That's kinda similar to how some concrete buildings are wired here, during construction when the concrete is poured they would do the rough in by laying the conduit in the walls and floor/ceiling slabs which is either galvanized steel pipe or flexible PVC pipe. After construction they would pull the wires, usually #14-#10 AWG THHN style wire which are individual insulated conductors.

Fixtures that are surface mounted to the concrete ceiling like in the pic would be mounted to a box or that was installed during the rough in phase. Fixtures installed in a drop ceiling (tile or drywall) would generally be hooked up to power from the box via a flexible metallic conduit whip or AC90 style cable. If a drop ceiling was in the original plans when the building was built, the electrician may opt to run the conduits for the ceiling lighting and power in the plenum space between the drop ceiling and the ceiling slab.
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Mar 17, 2019 at 09:35 PM Author: xmaslightguy
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There is a box embedded in the ceiling. The wires should be inserted into the box and closed with a cover. Unfortunately, in most cases, don't expect contractors to follow code where noone can see or cares to check

Doesn't the city (or your equivalent of a county? - not sure what you guys call it?) government do inspections on construction?
Stuff like that would fail an electrical inspection here, then they'd have to correct the issues & have it re-inspected...

Colored Fluorescent's such as F40T12 Red or  Green or Blue are awesome...

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Mar 17, 2019 at 11:59 PM Author: Ash
There is no mandatory inspection - it is expected that specialists know how to do their work. You can hire a private supervisor to supervise during the work or inspect after if you want
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