Flurofan96
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Celebrating my 10th Anniversary on LG
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This explains why my Philips 23W CFL that I got from Amazon back in 2013 only lasted 3 years (electrolytic capacitor failure occurred in March 2016) I used it in my bedroom light and that got a lot of switching cycles. Still got that CFL in my collection and I plan to get a new electrolytic capacitor for it
Then again I haven't heard stories from LG members of experiencing capacitor failure when storing NOS CFLs/ first start up of unused ones
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RRK
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To be honest, practically zero toxic materials in a modern LED.
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RRK
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What I’m experiencing from time to time is that the very first electronic ballasts from Philips from the early 1980s (BHF 250 12H for TLD HF 50W) is that those which are installed in the controller room of our sub stations and transformer stations are failing more often than those in any other location. The reason for that I see is that the lights in these locations are switched on more often but the lamps run only for a couple of minutes vs. those ballasts in some offices at our company which are running all the day with approximately 4 switching cycles. I already opened such ballasts and I found that the axial capacitor has leaked onto the board or some have one lead corroded away.
You may or may not see the effects of (re)forming of the capacitors here. A few minutes shall be generally enough to recover the oxide layer. If you look at typical curves, leakage current drops in literally a few seconds, hitting background level in ~5 minutes. Other factors may have to play. Ballasts at substations/distribution panels may be subject to higher average temperatures that ones at office/outside. Also some statistical tricks may be here, like the ballasts with weaker / defective capacitors may be have been pruned in heavy use in the early life long time ago, but have survived 40 years sitting much in standby.
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WorldwideHIDCollectorUSA
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HID, LPS, and preheat fluorescents forever!!!!!!
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To be honest, practically zero toxic materials in a modern LED.
However, even with the trace amounts of toxic material like lead, arsenic, and gallium; disposing them in the regular trash can still negatively impact the environment. See here: https://www.ledlightsunlimited.net/2021/02/15/do-led-lights-have-hazard-materials/
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Desire to collect various light bulbs (especially HID), control gear, and fixtures from around the world.
DISCLAIMER: THE EXPERIMENTS THAT I CONDUCT INVOLVING UNUSUAL LAMP/BALLAST COMBINATIONS SHOULD NOT BE ATTEMPTED UNLESS YOU HAVE THE PROPER KNOWLEDGE. I AM NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR ANY INJURIES.
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RRK
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Ok, they may have some sub-threshold amount (below RoHS) of lead, probably not.
How about arsenic and gallium you mentioned?
Gallium is non-toxic, and used in *microgram* amounts in fact. Practical amount is so low that is not financially viable to extract gallium from spent lamps scraps BTW!
No arsenic in a white LED, who invented this BS?
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« Last Edit: January 25, 2024, 01:25:18 PM by RRK »
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Laurens
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Probably confusing it with GaAs LEDs which are the very old school red and yellow indicator ones. Many modern LEDs are phosphor based like a fluorescent lamp (by shining UV into a LED's top you can verify this, half my christmas lights use phosphor leds), though RGB leds might still use GaAs leds. But here's a little chart showing the semiconductor composition of 'direct color' LEDs: Regardless, the amount of arsenic in a LED is extremely small, incomprehensably small. The amount of semiconductor material is smaller than a grain of sand.
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RRK
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Yes, and this chart is also rather dated, as many of today's high-efficiency red LEDs no longer rely on gallium arsenide, but based on relatively benign gallium/indium nitrides and phosphides.
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Medved
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However, even with the trace amounts of toxic material like lead, arsenic, and gallium; disposing them in the regular trash can still negatively impact the environment.
On top of the very small quantity used, these materials are stuck within the very hard semiconductor crystal. That means they are very firmly held in place, so you need to make quite an effort to release any significant quantity out of it. Plus the crystals alone are also quite well encapsulated. So the danger from used lamps is practically nonexistent (moreover beyond of what other materials used in those things mean). Other story could be what happens around the semiconductor fabrication places, where these things get really concentrated, how these are safeguarded
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No more selfballasted c***
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Rommie
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I think the problem with disposing of LED lamps isn't so much toxic materials in the LED elements themselves, but in the driver circuitry. Same as any printed circuit construction, really. You wouldn't throw a dead radio or TV in the bin, same thing applies to LEDs.
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Ria (aka Rommie) in Aberdeen Administrator, UK & European time zones. Any questions or problems, please feel free to get in touch
"What greater gift than the love of a cat..?" - Charles Dickens *** No smiley-only replies, please ***
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RRK
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/cynical mode on
"You wouldn't throw a dead radio or TV in the bin, same thing applies to LEDs."
Yes ok. You bring it to e-waste center. Probably even paying some money. Saving ma nature, blah blah... Next it get shipped to some 3-rd world country by a corrupt waste processor. So it get burned in a pile with dioxine-laden black smoke by local slum inhabitants in a hope to recover a little bit of copper...
/cynical mode off
In fact, modern RoHS compliant boards have nothing that is a serious ecological crime. Board material is just an inert epoxy filled with glass fiber. Chips body is epoxy, too, filled with silica. Some copper foil. Toxic lead is mostly removed from the solder by RoHS regulation. The only thing that may be of some concern is brominated flame retardants that are sometimes added to the board material, case plastic, and components to reduce fire hazard. They are not especially toxic, but release some unpleasant chemistry if attempted to be burned. Probably OK in a well-tuned waste incinerator.
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Mandolin Girl
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We do the best we can when it comes to recycling. But after it has been collected to go to the waste recycling it's out of our hands. Please less of the negativity.
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Hugs and STUFF Sammi xXx (also in Aberdeen) Published Author There are two kinds of light - the glow that illuminates, and the glare that obscures. James Thurber SMILEY ONLY ANSWERS WILL BE DELETED FROM MY POSTS
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wide-lite 1000
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Maybe over there , here , unless it's a free service , most people just throw it away with the normal trash ! My neighbors just put 3 flat screen tv's out with the trash . They buy abandoned storage units and anything that isn't worth trying to resell just goes out to the trash .
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Collector,Hoarder,Pack-rat! Clear mercury Rules!!
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Mandolin Girl
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Also with the recycling if it's mixed materials they don't want to know so it ends up in landfill.!
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Hugs and STUFF Sammi xXx (also in Aberdeen) Published Author There are two kinds of light - the glow that illuminates, and the glare that obscures. James Thurber SMILEY ONLY ANSWERS WILL BE DELETED FROM MY POSTS
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Laurens
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It varies wildly with where you live. Small stuff like lightbulbs, batteries and phone chargers we can put in a special collection bin that you can find at every shopping centre. Fluorescents at every place that sells them. Larger stuff like TVs - the company that sells you the new TV is legally required to pick up the old one, because you literally pay a fee to the central fund that deals with the processing of E-waste. But if it's more convenient, you can bring it to the municipality's waste processing facility for free. Of course, what happens after, we don't know. As far as i know, a device is shipped off to African countries if it works, and 'works' means that something moves or the standby light lights up. My city is very good with that stuff, you can just call them and they'll pick it up the next friday, though if you get it picked up it all goes into the general 'large trash' - a big truck with a trash compactor on it. Stuff like sofas, furniture, unsorted boxes of attic crap... But my municipality's taxes are among the highest in the country. If you bring it away, you can really sort it nicely. You drive onto a platform surrounded by different bins. Ferrous metal, non ferrous, electronics, woods, demolition waste, asbestos... Most is free, but demolition waste costs some money. It is genuinely nice though. I've lived like this my whole life. After moving to another city, i really had to adjust to having to - gasp - bring furniture away myself, or only being able to get it picked up twice a year! But even there i could just chuck my trash into the underground bins for free. Much nicer than having to pay something like €2,50 for every time you open the underground bin. That really sucks if you have bulky trash like styrofoam packaging. Needless to say, people from those municipalities are more likely to just dump it at the roadside, or take their trash to relatives who can throw it away for free.
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Mandolin Girl
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All of the waste facilities here are only accessible if you have your own transport, which we do now, so we will be making a trip there soon. There used to be a skip for that at our local supermarket but that went years ago. How are people who don't have their own transport supposed to cope.?
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Hugs and STUFF Sammi xXx (also in Aberdeen) Published Author There are two kinds of light - the glow that illuminates, and the glare that obscures. James Thurber SMILEY ONLY ANSWERS WILL BE DELETED FROM MY POSTS
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