WorldwideHIDCollectorUSA
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HID, LPS, and preheat fluorescents forever!!!!!!
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| This photo shows a SOX ignitor that I have in my collection. I personally tested it on a 120v autotransformer fluorescent ballast with an OCV of about 240v and the SOX lamp that I used with it actually struck.
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Desire to collect various light bulbs (especially HID), control gear, and fixtures from around the world.
DISCLAIMER: THE EXPERIMENTS THAT I CONDUCT INVOLVING UNUSUAL LAMP/BALLAST COMBINATIONS SHOULD NOT BE ATTEMPTED UNLESS YOU HAVE THE PROPER KNOWLEDGE. I AM NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR ANY INJURIES.
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Rommie
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This photo shows a SOX ignitor that I have in my collection. I personally tested it on a 120v autotransformer fluorescent ballast with an OCV of about 240v and the SOX lamp that I used with it actually struck. That's entirely possible, I never said otherwise; the specifications of that device may well allow it, even though it was designed for a 220-240V supply. But others may well not work, so making blanket statements such as "European SOX ignitors all require 240V" doesn't help. This topic is nearing end of life, I think. I'm not going to lock it (yet) but let's keep things on track please, and not get bogged down with ambiguous statements or all we'll end up doing is going round in circles, which doesn't help anybody. |
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Ria (aka Rommie) in Aberdeen
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"What greater gift than the love of a cat..?" - Charles Dickens
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WorldwideHIDCollectorUSA
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HID, LPS, and preheat fluorescents forever!!!!!!
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| I feel that locking this topic will prevent other people from sharing their experiences about misconceptions about lighting and certain misconceptions will be left unaddressed.
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Desire to collect various light bulbs (especially HID), control gear, and fixtures from around the world.
DISCLAIMER: THE EXPERIMENTS THAT I CONDUCT INVOLVING UNUSUAL LAMP/BALLAST COMBINATIONS SHOULD NOT BE ATTEMPTED UNLESS YOU HAVE THE PROPER KNOWLEDGE. I AM NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR ANY INJURIES.
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Rommie
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Should I deserve to get banned for ambiguous statements?
I didn't mention anything about bans. I just asked you to keep posts on topic and as factual as possible. Ambiguous statements aren't necessarily a bad thing, but I'd prefer it if they were kept to a minimum. If you have any further concerns, please raise them with the team here. |
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Ria (aka Rommie) in Aberdeen
Administrator, UK & European time zones. Any questions or problems, please feel free to get in touch
"What greater gift than the love of a cat..?" - Charles Dickens
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sol
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| Other examples that I occasionally see here are F32T8 lamps with F40T12 ballasts and incandescent, CFL or LED in a low wattage HPS fixture without disconnecting both the ballast and the ignitor.
Another thing is HID fixtures that are labeled with maximum wattage. For the general public, HID lamps must be matched with the ballast, period. (We here are an exception to that rule if we at least somewhat know what we’re doing.)
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WorldwideHIDCollectorUSA
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HID, LPS, and preheat fluorescents forever!!!!!!
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| In Israel, probe start metal halide lamps are often used in conjunction with HPS ballasts and superimposed ignitors rather than mercury vapor ballasts and 750v 2 wire ignitors and constant wattage probe start metal halide ballasts without ignitors since superimposed ignitors can destroy probe start metal halide lamps since they cannot handle 4-5kV pulses.
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« Last Edit: December 20, 2020, 04:06:31 PM by WorldwideHIDCollectorUSA »
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Desire to collect various light bulbs (especially HID), control gear, and fixtures from around the world.
DISCLAIMER: THE EXPERIMENTS THAT I CONDUCT INVOLVING UNUSUAL LAMP/BALLAST COMBINATIONS SHOULD NOT BE ATTEMPTED UNLESS YOU HAVE THE PROPER KNOWLEDGE. I AM NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR ANY INJURIES.
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High Intensity
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| One I used to see a lot where I lived was contractors thinking that most HID lamps were cross-compatible, and that had to be done was match the wattage of the bulb to the fixture. I used to see a bunch of HPS shoeboxes mislamped with MH or in one case, MV lamps.
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sol
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| I've known some people to throw out a preheat fluorescent fixture because the starter was stuck or otherwise non functioning. A new lamp would not solve the problem. Keep in mind this is in North America where the majority of fluorescent fixtures since the 1950's don't use a starter.
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joseph_125
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Other examples that I occasionally see here are F32T8 lamps with F40T12 ballasts and incandescent, CFL or LED in a low wattage HPS fixture without disconnecting both the ballast and the ignitor.
Another thing is HID fixtures that are labeled with maximum wattage. For the general public, HID lamps must be matched with the ballast, period. (We here are an exception to that rule if we at least somewhat know what we’re doing.)
I occasionally see the F32T8 and F40T12 lamps being treated as somewhat interchangeable too. The thing is, to your average person both with placed on the other's ballast still turn on and appear to work. The thing with the max wattage with the HID lights, I blame the HID fixture manufacturers. I see it labelled something like "MAX 175w Mercury" implying that it's perfectly ok to switch to 100w mercury to save energy. More often than not, it seems residential grade HID fixtures are labelled in such a manner. Commercial and utility grade HID lights still use the "Use Only 175w H39 mercury" style labelling. |
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sol
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The thing with the max wattage with the HID lights, I blame the HID fixture manufacturers. I see it labelled something like "MAX 175w Mercury" implying that it's perfectly ok to switch to 100w mercury to save energy.
Agreed, this is 100% a manufacturer's problem. It also means someone somewhere along the line has a misconception about HID wattage and ballasts. I cannot figure out whom, though (although it is not technically the end user's fault because of the word maximum). |
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Mandolin Girl
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I occasionally see the F32T8 and F40T12 lamps being treated as somewhat interchangeable too. The thing is, to your average person both with placed on the other's ballast still turn on and appear to work.
The thing with the max wattage with the HID lights, I blame the HID fixture manufacturers. I see it labelled something like "MAX 175w Mercury" implying that it's perfectly ok to switch to 100w mercury to save energy. More often than not, it seems residential grade HID fixtures are labelled in such a manner. Commercial and utility grade HID lights still use the "Use Only 175w H39 mercury" style labelling.
I don't know about what happens on your side of the pond, but here if a maximum wattage is stated on a fixture it refers to the amount of heat generated by that wattage.  |
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Hugs and STUFF Sammi xXx (also in Aberdeen) 
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There are two kinds of light - the glow that illuminates, and the glare that obscures.
James Thurber
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sol
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I don't know about what happens on your side of the pond, but here if a maximum wattage is stated on a fixture it refers to the amount of heat generated by that wattage.
Yes, for incandescent. However you want to think about it, HID requires a compatible ballast. Since manufacturers must follow codes (and the ANSI in N. America), the word maximum should simply never be on HID fixtures. Let’s pretend for a minute that I don’t understand HID lighting, and I have a 100W metal halide security light installed on my house. I find it too bright so I search on eBay for metal halide lamps and find some 50W ones. I go ahead and install it in the fixtures and « everything will work because there is a maximum of 100W ». It might be more of a case of misunderstanding than misleading but still I’m sure it has happened before all because of one word too many. |
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Mandolin Girl
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@ sol: The same still applies to HID, a higher wattage of lamp than what the fixture is rated for could damage it, and of course be too big physically to fit into it safely. Of course you can relamp with a different wattage, but you would have to change the gear as well. |
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Hugs and STUFF Sammi xXx (also in Aberdeen)
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There are two kinds of light - the glow that illuminates, and the glare that obscures.
James Thurber
SMILEY ONLY ANSWERS WILL BE DELETED FROM MY POSTS
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sol
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| Yes but this is not immediately obvious to the general public hence why the word maximum does not belong on HID fixture wattage labels.
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Mandolin Girl
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| Over here, the general public don't have access to HID lighting.
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Hugs and STUFF Sammi xXx (also in Aberdeen)
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There are two kinds of light - the glow that illuminates, and the glare that obscures.
James Thurber
SMILEY ONLY ANSWERS WILL BE DELETED FROM MY POSTS
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