Author Topic: Why Osram NAV-x Super 4Y lamps don't redding out and cycles at EOL?  (Read 1629 times)
dor123
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Why Osram NAV-x Super 4Y lamps don't redding out and cycles at EOL? « on: July 28, 2016, 11:00:47 AM » Author: dor123
When I moved at 2006 to my hostel at Qiryat Ata, we had many Osram NAV-E 250W Super 4Y inside AEG Koffer 150 and probably also inside several Schreder Sepale.
Neither of them did cycle at EOL, but just stopped working, like incandescent, fluorescent and LPS lamps.
Also: Nither of them redded out, but retained their original color until EOL, this despite they have the same color of standard HPS lamps (Meaning that they have the same amount of mercury as standard HPS lamps).
Why the Osram NAV-x Super 4Y, never cycles at EOL and don't redding out, if they have the same amount of mercury as standard HPS lamps?
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Re: Why Osram NAV-x Super 4Y lamps don't redding out and cycles at EOL? « Reply #1 on: July 29, 2016, 02:23:45 PM » Author: Medved
The cycling is not because of the fill missing something, but because the arctube blackening causes the thermal balance becoming unstable and yields a thermal runaway (just a short info for others: Blackened ends means more radiation gets trapped, what turns there into heat. Elevated temperature means more of the fill had evaporated, so higher fill pressure, so higher arc voltage, yielding higher real power delivery from the ballast, what pushes the temperature further, till the arc voltage rises so high the ballast is not able to support it).
The way how to combat this could be either guarding the electrodes, so the sputered electrodes do not alter the thermal balance. Or the pressure regulating fill reservoir is moved further away from the electrode (common with US lamps designed for a constant current CWA ballasts). Or use an unsaturated vapor lamp concept (all components mainly responsible for the arc voltage evaporates, so there is nothing that could evaporate further in a way to rise the arc voltage).
With any of these the lamp may stop cycling, if such measure is effective enough. And that could be as well the key to a longer life (traditionally the life was limited by the moment when the lamp became thermally unstable).
Then the failure mode depends, what is "next".
The unsaturated vapor lamps tradditionally got depleted of Sodium, so turned bluish-white.
Mainly with Xenon fill, where the ignitor voltage could be marginal or firing frequency too low, the ignition voltage may rise so much, the ignitor won't be able to ionize the lamp (that could be an explanation for a new lamp on an old ignitor).
Or something may hard-break within the lamp (electrode loosing emitter become hotter in operation, that could either melt till it becomes swallowed by the molten sealing material when the electrode wire shortens so much once the lamp is shut down; the overheating electrode may break loose some connection, that could be even an intentional anti-cycling feature)
Or some electronic shuts it down (but then I would expect at least one startup attempt after power ON)
Or the ballast may contain a device recognizing cycling lamp, shutting OFFG some mechanical latch and so then require to be rearmed with a new lamp; again an anti-cycling feature. This could well be even in the pole base and not inside of the lantern (senses pure capacitive phase load, what means the lamp circuit is not conductive). It could be even a low enough rated slow acting circuit breaker (many breakers offer sensitivity adjustments, just to allow them to be set according to the installation need; the reactive current to the capacitor uses to be double of the normal current when the lamp normally lights). In all these cases the lamp may have been cycling some time ago, but because that activated the anti cycling feature, it will remain OFF till the feature is manually reset (during lamp replacement).
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Re: Why Osram NAV-x Super 4Y lamps don't redding out and cycles at EOL? « Reply #2 on: July 31, 2016, 09:33:36 AM » Author: dor123
The Osram NAV-E Super 4Y, like all high efficiency HPS lamps, have higher xenon pressure of 300 torr, and this higher pressure of the xenon, preseves the electrodes for longer, slowing the rate of lumen deprication. Is this the reason why these lamps never cycle, but just dead silent (There is a picture of Philips PIA Plus 50w cycling here)?
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Re: Why Osram NAV-x Super 4Y lamps don't redding out and cycles at EOL? « Reply #3 on: August 02, 2016, 02:16:21 AM » Author: Medved
The Osram NAV-E Super 4Y, like all high efficiency HPS lamps, have higher xenon pressure of 300 torr, and this higher pressure of the xenon, preseves the electrodes for longer, slowing the rate of lumen deprication. Is this the reason why these lamps never cycle, but just dead silent (There is a picture of Philips PIA Plus 50w cycling here)?

That means some other defects should take over and cause the lamps to fail.
Or what is still possible:

The fill is not pure Xenon, but some type of Penning mixture (some additive is put into the Xenon to lower the breakdown voltage, so to ease the starting). Because the dominant Xenon quite protects the electrodes, the normal sputtering/blackening/cycling does not happen that early. So what may happen is the atmosphere to get "cleaned out" from the other fill element, essentially increasing the ignition voltage. And when the ignition voltage increases above what the ignitor is capable to deliver, the lamp then does not ignite anymore.
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Re: Why Osram NAV-x Super 4Y lamps don't redding out and cycles at EOL? « Reply #4 on: August 02, 2016, 05:26:44 AM » Author: VPL
One cause for non-cycling is the increased use of electronic ballast in streetlighting luminaires. They measure lamp behavior, current, voltage, erratic starting and so on in real time.

They shut lamp off eg when lamp voltage is outside defined levels for example.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2016, 05:29:21 AM by VPL » Logged

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Re: Why Osram NAV-x Super 4Y lamps don't redding out and cycles at EOL? « Reply #5 on: August 02, 2016, 05:46:14 AM » Author: dor123
It is irrelevant to my case here VPL. Here in Israel, except LED lanterns, all HID lanterns uses magnetic ballasts + ignitors. The lanterns that this lamp was very popular here in Qiryat Ata, are AEG Koffer 150, which all of them have regular superimposed ignitors without any anti-cycle feature. At EOL, they simply don't ignites.
I know how cycle lamps that are cycles with ignitors that have anti-cycle features behaves: They starting like good HPS lamps, than the ones inside the AEG Triangel we have in our neighbrhood, cycles 4 times before giving up, and the ones inside the Schreder Sepale, cycles once and giving up or simply flickering before giving up without any cycle.
But the Osram NAV-E Super 4Y lamps here, simply dies. I think that their cold ignition voltage rises above what the ignitor can supply, and so stops working, as the pulses from the ignitor is insufficient to ionise the xenon gas enough to cause a visible dim glow.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2016, 06:14:29 AM by dor123 » Logged

I"m don't speak English well, and rely on online translating to write in this site.
Please forgive me if my choice of my words looks like offensive, while that isn't my intention.

I only working with the international date format (dd.mm.yyyy).

I lives in Israel, which is a 220-240V, 50hz country.

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