Author Topic: Making a battery powered 35 watt HPS torch.  (Read 2295 times)
HomeBrewLamps
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Making a battery powered 35 watt HPS torch. « on: May 03, 2020, 08:11:20 PM » Author: HomeBrewLamps
So first off. I know some modern LED flashlights can take around 35+ watts running on 18650 batteries and I know that vapes can pull lots of watts (25-150+ watts) and they run off 18650 batteries. I actually own a stream light protac hlx5 that puts out 3500 lumens so I believe this to be very possible.


I want to use a toroidal transformer for a few reasons.

1. Compared to E-I cores they're more efficient

2. It is ring/doughnut shaped so designing a light around it is easier


I lack anything beyond a very basic knowledge of transformer design so I need help finding a toroidal doughnut suitable to the task and I also need help choosing suitable magnet wire. Also what kindof driver circuit would I need to run the lamp at a proper frequency (60-250Hz)? Does anyone know the model/part numbers of components I could use for this?

I'm thinking of doing three series groups of two 18650 cells in parallel to come out at around 7.4volts at 10,800mAh. Using Panasonic NCR18650G cells.

battery datasheet

I know I will also need to make a battery protection circuit possibly but I will deal with that later.


The streamlight protac flashlight I have has a Cree XHP70.2 lamp in it with a maximum current of 4.8 amps which translates to 33ish watts at 6 volts. I get a run time of about 2ish hours out of the two panasonic cells so I imagine a torch utilizing a single 35 watt HPS lamp with 6 batteries would last atleast 4 hours.


« Last Edit: May 05, 2020, 10:53:50 PM by HomeBrewLamps » Logged

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Ash
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Re: Making Toroidal ballast for battery powered 35 watt HPS lamp. « Reply #1 on: May 04, 2020, 12:52:21 AM » Author: Ash
Can't use a magnetic ballast "as is" with DC. There must be a switching power supply between the battery and the ballast to generate AC (not necessary 50/60 Hz, if you choose something around 250 Hz you can make the the ballast much smaller and lighter). Also, to step up the voltage as needed for Voc around 100V at least
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Medved
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Re: Making Toroidal ballast for battery powered 35 watt HPS lamp. « Reply #2 on: May 04, 2020, 02:23:53 AM » Author: Medved
First the toroidal designs are more efficient only on larger transformers. Plus they do not allow any core gap control - an essential part of any magnetic design for anything more complex than a fixed ratio ac transformer.
If aiming at high efficiency from DC, you have to go high frequency (50..100kHz), rather than specific core shape...
The low frequency for the arc is then generated by transistor bridge.
Basically a common automotive HID ballast topology.

And more general:
The fact the batteries may power 50W in LEDs says nothing about their ability to power a 35W HPS.
The thing is, how long they could power it. Few seconds at a time for a LED is perfectly usable lantern, but just few hours for an HID makes it useless. And your 10Ah battery would be able to run the 35W for barely 90 minutes, not counting for the high current battery capacity depression (batteries exhibit lower capacity when operated at high currents for longer than few seconds at a time with recovery delay inbetween).
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Re: Making Toroidal ballast for battery powered 35 watt HPS lamp. « Reply #3 on: May 04, 2020, 11:08:02 AM » Author: HomeBrewLamps
Even 1 hour and 90 minutes is fine for me. Just need a bigger battery.

The LED flashlight I have can push 3500 lumens constantly for 2 hours which is plenty for most things I do and I can design more spare battery packs if need be.


So are you saying that I should dismantle a car hid ballast and try to use it? Or dismantle it and map out the circuit and create one of my own?


I'm thinking this light would be shaped much like a large walking stick and used as such to accommodate all the batteries.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2020, 11:10:39 AM by HomeBrewLamps » Logged

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Re: Making Toroidal ballast for battery powered 35 watt HPS lamp. « Reply #4 on: May 04, 2020, 02:57:18 PM » Author: Medved
The problem is, unlike LED, the HID does not perform well when powered on for just short time. If your use pattern is 2h constantly on till the battery discharges, then maybe.
I dont think you would be able to replicate some car ballast per se, as many use custom ic's and/or custom firmware fully digital cpu based controllers (e.g. an atTiny84 may be easily programmed as the controller, just add the power fet predrivers and you may program in whatever characteristic).
But there are few generic ics, like ucc2305 or so, which could serve as a basis for a dc powered ballast, but its datasheet and app notes show the ballast topology.
But for that you have to know what you are doing...

For you could be the easiest thing to just use some "halogen retrofit kit", these are available for cheap and contain both lamps and mainly ballasts somehow designed even for shorter on time uses.
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Re: Making Toroidal ballast for battery powered 35 watt HPS lamp. « Reply #5 on: May 05, 2020, 10:19:58 PM » Author: HomeBrewLamps
OK so I've been thinking on this for the past few days and I'm thinking of upping the battery count to 32, using the same previously mentioned batteries 3600mAh NCR18650G, in 8 groups of 4 cells to make 14.8 volts at 28,800mAh. Unless there is a more compact battery I could use to get near the same capacity?  I would likely mount them all into battery holders for easy serviceability in the event of a cell failings because I hate desoldering. I'm aware of all the wiring that would have to happen and that's why all of this stuff will be mounted to a long pvc pipe so the wires can be hidden within, and circuit boards can be protected from impact and  (possibly) moisture. This project will be shaped very similarly to a torch, and the coloration of an HPS lamp would add to the aesthetic, which is why I'm only intending on designing around an HPS lamp... Atleast for the first project. I don't want to use blue automotive hid lamps.

I would like to use this 8 amp protection+charging board because of the charging indicators, I don't think a 35 watt hps + ballast could draw more than 8 amps?

protection+charger board

After the battery circuitry I imagine I will need to step down the voltage to 12 volts with a linear voltage  regulator IC.

And then it would feed into this very simple hid ballast:

here


What are your thoughts?



Due to monetary reasons this project will take a while to come into reality because the cells cost a lot of money. But once I get them they will be useful for things other than this project so they're worth it in my opinion.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2020, 10:29:23 PM by HomeBrewLamps » Logged

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Re: Making a battery powered 35 watt HPS torch. « Reply #6 on: May 06, 2020, 02:55:54 AM » Author: Medved
Forget any linear voltage regulator IC. You wont be able to manage the losses, plus it will eat up a lot from your expensive battery energy.
That circuit seems to be very simple, but it is by far not trivial, mainly when aiming for some usable efficiency. Plus there are quite a few design errors on the primary circuit, mainly yielding poor reliability.

First the transistor choices: The 2N3055 are really obsolete junk. Extremely inefficient for a switching circuit. First they are very slow, then the 0.1 Ohm saturation voltage slope is not that great either and even to reach that you need 10% base current. With all that you would be wasting more than 10W in transistors and the base resistors, plus have to design the circuit with really low operating frequency (the 20kHz range mentioned in the article is way above what these transistors could work in reasonably). Better would be something along the lines of MJF15030 for 3- or 4-cell (10.8 or 14.4V) battery supply design, or 2SC6144 for 2-cell (7.2V) design, both allow base current to be as low as 1/20 of the collector current.

Second the base feedback winding uses way to high voltage - with the winding ratio and the 12V supply, it exposes the emitter base to reverse voltages in way excess of 16V (assuming clean rectangular voltages without any overshoots), while they are rated at barely 7V. With 30turns CT primary, the feedback should have about 4 Turns CT, not more. Plus a series resistor of 1Ohm or so should be added to each base, to limit the reverse breakdown current during overshoots.

For low operating frequency these transistors imply, the size and cost of the secondary ballasting capacitor would be rather high (you have to look at its AC voltage rating at the given frequency, co 150VAC often implies more than 1kVDC rated capacitors)


Better would be to switch to MOSFETS (e.g. this topology). The transistor voltage rating should be 5..8x the maximum battery supply voltage, Ron in the 30mOhm range, with the modern "logic drive" FETs (they use to feature lower gate charge, so the gate bias resistors could be higher so dissipating less) the gate Zener should be about 6V. Plus side is, you dont need the feedback winding...
The drain inductor could be anything in the 10..30uH range, a choke from PC supply would work well...

And don't forget the core gap is, what controls the frequency (along with the ballasting C7 capacitance - the transformer secondary forms a resonant LC with C7), so it needs to be carefully adjusted.
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Re: Making a battery powered 35 watt HPS torch. « Reply #7 on: May 06, 2020, 10:41:48 AM » Author: takemorepills
These high-output LED flashlights RARELY put out their MAX lumens for more than a few minutes.
I have a few, decent, 3000+ lumen LED flashlights and they have to throttle-back the output after a few minutes due to thermal loading.

I used to see on eBay DC electronic ballasts for SOX/LPS lighting. Can't find them now, but they were used for solar powered remote area lighting. If it were me, I'd just source one of those ballasts and run a multi-cell battery pack.
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Re: Making a battery powered 35 watt HPS torch. « Reply #8 on: May 10, 2020, 02:36:29 AM » Author: HomeBrewLamps
Thank you guys for your insight so far. I have a question regarding the transformer. I have two old transformers, 1 is an old speaker transformer from a vacuum tube TV and the other is an inductor. I have measurements of them below in the images... Would one of these or both of these be a suitable candidate for a ballast? Obviously I'd have to dismantle them and rewind them but I've done that before. The audio transformer probably has all the wire I need for the job already on it, so I won't have to source 28awg, 26 or 30awg wire from online.

If these cores aren't right would I need something bigger? Or possibly smaller?
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Re: Making a battery powered 35 watt HPS torch. « Reply #9 on: May 10, 2020, 05:07:10 AM » Author: Medved
None of them is any use for that ballast.
The ballast operates at 20+ kHz, for that you need a ferrite core.
Way better would be the cora from a CRT TV/monior horizontal deflection transformer, but the winding should be obviously made completely new.

Read that "12VDC ballast" article, it specifically asks for a ferrite core, there is really a good reason for it.

Edit:
Suitable corec could be:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32698579025.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.2cab457awaYIMV&algo_pvid=e08c908d-abee-433a-b607-3aa97e7d7c5a&algo_expid=e08c908d-abee-433a-b607-3aa97e7d7c5a-0&btsid=0ab6f81615891883040871182e2ec0&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_,searchweb201603_

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32673891400.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.7ad636ef05VV97&algo_pvid=a40b9c2d-4182-4a97-91c3-d72256ee9b33&algo_expid=a40b9c2d-4182-4a97-91c3-d72256ee9b33-0&btsid=0ab6d67915891883784837917e5b51&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_,searchweb201603_

A bit mode compact (not sure, how the winding will fit):
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000346446619.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.4d0f2492zm8845&algo_pvid=1d4c520b-14c1-449a-802b-0d8df0dac70a&algo_expid=1d4c520b-14c1-449a-802b-0d8df0dac70a-3&btsid=0be3764515891881830363725e7dca&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_,searchweb201603_

« Last Edit: May 11, 2020, 05:19:21 AM by Medved » Logged

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