Author Topic: Using HID ignitors or electronic starters for North American slimline lamps.  (Read 653 times)
WorldwideHIDCollectorUSA
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Using HID ignitors or electronic starters for North American slimline lamps. « on: April 07, 2021, 02:46:42 AM » Author: WorldwideHIDCollectorUSA
I am wondering if I can use a high voltage HID ignitor or a European electronic pulse starter to reliably ignite slimline lamps. For example, could I ignite a North American F48T12 slimline lamp on a F40T12/F36T8 preheat ballast if I use a European electronic fluorescent starter or a European superimposed HID ignitor? Will the pulses from the superimposed ignitor damage the cathodes on a North American slimline fluorescent tube?
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Re: Using HID ignitors or electronic starters for North American slimline lamps. « Reply #1 on: April 07, 2021, 03:30:54 AM » Author: dor123
This can damage the lamps, since they aren't intended to be started using so high voltage. Also the Slimline ballast already provides the high voltage necessary to start the lamp, similar to autoleak transformer.
Electronic starters are used only on preheat circuits.
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Re: Using HID ignitors or electronic starters for North American slimline lamps. « Reply #2 on: April 07, 2021, 12:07:45 PM » Author: Medved
I don't think it will allow the slimlines to start on F40 ballast.
For the successful cold cathode start, you need two steps:
First is the gas breakdown. That could be achieved by the ignitor.
Second is to support significant current with cold cathode discharge, so the cathodes warm up and start emitting electrons without the high voltage. That needs elevated voltage with a significant current, the ignitors are not able to deliver that current.

HIDs need the same sequence indeed, but because during startup they are cold and majority of the fill is still solid/liquid, there is low pressure, so with the rather short length, very low voltage drop across the anode column. So the ~220V OCV of typical ballasts is good enough to pass few 100's mA while electrodes are cold (in glow discharge mode), so warm them up. And this is the second reason for the needed higher ballast OCV. Only then they warm up, build the pressure so the arc voltage drop, but at that time the electrodes are already hot, so lose minimum voltage. And that is, why on brief power interruption the lamp extinguish and needs to cool down before restarting:
When arctube is hot but not that much the electrodes, the 220V ballast OCV becomes too low to support the glow dischare and it isn't starting even when the ignitor clearly is able to break down the gas.

The fluorescents are very long, plus have nearly the operating pressure inside already when cold, so their anode column voltage is very high (similar to hot HIDs) so the ignitor will be just flashing (with the pulsing frequency it would be visible as a tiny glow, with visible sputter progress), but lamps wont start.

Maybe SOX ignitors may help, because SOX are more like the fluorescents in this matter (cold pressure not that much different from the steady operating one), so the ignitors are designed to deliver some reasonable power to warm up electrodes in the glow mode so to be effective for successful start. You would have to try.

The HID ignitor itself won't damage the electrodes in any extra way compare to any other cold start,  it would be the unsuccessful ignition attempts, what  will cause significant damage.
So you may give it a try (stay with superimposed ignitors, so you won't expose the F40 winding to the HV), if it ignites instantly to full brightness, it should be OK. If it only glows dimly for few seconds and only then sometimes ignite, there is quite significant cathode wear.
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