Re: Induction Lighting video. « Reply #2 on: November 27, 2009, 01:29:48 AM » Author: Medved
I saw it without the audio, but what scared me at most was phosphor coating - manipulation with phosphor substance and even worse without any protective equipment. Second thing was, what look like they are filling lamps with amalgam dose manually as well - if it is so, the exposure to mercury should be terrible... And even at the start of the video, the manual touching of freshly sawed glass and bathing hands in the pool with glass in water suspension is asking for cancers as well...
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	Re: Induction Lighting video. « Reply #4 on: March 19, 2010, 10:18:29 AM » Author: static1701
If they can get the cost down, and use good quality parts these will be cool. Most of the stuff coming from that part of the world uses the cheapest electronic parts that don't last as long at the bulb. Does any more know how far out from the bulb the magnetic field goes?
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I use real incandescent Christmas lights, miniature lights from the 70's, C6's from the 50's and modern C7's and C9's. NO ugly LED's! I don't care what it cost. Real Christmas lights and Preheat Fluorescent!

	Re: Induction Lighting video. « Reply #6 on: March 22, 2010, 08:22:51 AM » Author: dor123
I don't know why, but this revolutionary light source of induction electrodless fluorescent lighting is totally unknown in my country (Israel) and no lamps of this type of light source are importing to it. All that i can say is that the only energy saving alternative to incandescent bulbs that is popular in Israel is CFLs, while the LED retrofit is only popular in commercial decorative and romantic lighting as an alternative to dichroic halogens (usually 230V i think) or as E27 PAR38 style RGB LED lamps.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2010, 01:33:00 PM by dor123 »		Logged

I"m don't speak English well, and rely on online translating to write in this site.
Please forgive me if my choice of my words looks like offensive, while that isn't my intention.

I only working with the international date format (dd.mm.yyyy).

I lives in Israel, which is a 220-240V, 50hz country.

	Re: Induction Lighting video. « Reply #7 on: March 22, 2010, 05:16:39 PM » Author: Medved
I think the reason is the total fixture cost (gear + lamp). So these lamps didn't spread much before being after their zenith: In mean time the hot cathode technology improved so much, it reach the life expectancy of the induction systems, but at way lower cost (30kHz hot cathode fluorescent gear is way cheaper and has way more design margins then 250kHz for Endura/Icetron or ~4Mhz for QL concepts, so it is cheaper and might last lomger). And for low power level domestic lighting, LED systems slowly take over for similar cost as inductions (dont count the cheap retrofits). They do not have as excellent efficacy as e.g. fluorescent, but give full brightness instantly (even induction have to first warm up to evaporate the necessary amount of mercury, as they are the same low pressure discharge lamps as other fluorescents), what allow to have lights ON only where just necessary.
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	Re: Induction Lighting video. « Reply #8 on: March 23, 2010, 06:29:17 AM » Author: dor123
The reason that inducton fluorescent lamps have a run-up time to full brightness is because they use mercury amalgam and not liquid mercury. Argon T12s T9s (Circline) and miniature T5s and Krypton T8s and T5s that contain a liquid mercury (Except Philips Master TL-Ds and several krypton T5s) give also a full brightness instantly.
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I"m don't speak English well, and rely on online translating to write in this site.
Please forgive me if my choice of my words looks like offensive, while that isn't my intention.

I only working with the international date format (dd.mm.yyyy).

I lives in Israel, which is a 220-240V, 50hz country.

	Re: Induction Lighting video. « Reply #9 on: March 23, 2010, 03:06:43 PM » Author: Medved
Yes, but the amalgam there is necessary, as the pure liquid mercury would yield too high pressure at operating temperature. By it's composition you might control, what is the optimum cold-spot working temperature, but the range of efficient operation is always narrow. Liquid mercury tubes are inefficient at high temperature, so they have to be large to avoid the temperature to rise (their large size cause significant UV reabsorbtion, so lower efficacy, so that's why this concept was abandoned). Hard amalgam lamps do not work correctly on low temperatures, so they need time to warm up to the designed value. There are tricks to keep the amalgam temperature within tight limits (couple it to the electrode assembly), but the optimum temperature is then rather high, so again there is need for warm-up time, even if the lamp ambient temperature range is finally wide (as the amalgam temperature is regulated). I noted it, as LED's efficacy is way less sensitive to temperature, so they offer nearly the same efficacy when cold as well as when warmed up. Quote from: dor123 on March 23, 2010, 06:29:17 AM The reason that inducton fluorescent lamps have a run-up time to full brightness is because they use mercury amalgam and not liquid mercury. Argon T12s T9s (Circline) and miniature T5s and Krypton T8s and T5s that contain a liquid mercury (Except Philips Master TL-Ds and several krypton T5s) give also a full brightness instantly.
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	Re: Induction Lighting video. « Reply #10 on: March 24, 2010, 06:00:17 AM » Author: dor123
Quote from: Medved on November 27, 2009, 01:29:48 AM I saw it without the audio, but what scared me at most was phosphor coating - manipulation with phosphor substance and even worse without any protective equipment. Second thing was, what look like they are filling lamps with amalgam dose manually as well - if it is so, the exposure to mercury should be terrible... And even at the start of the video, the manual touching of freshly sawed glass and bathing hands in the pool with glass in water suspension is asking for cancers as well... Medved: Why protection equipment is needed when coating a lamp with a powder (Like a Phosphor)? For preventing inhalation of it? Also i think direct exposure to mercury is only dangerous when it is in the vapor state. You can touch a drop of mercury without any damage to your finger. Solid and liquid mercury are toxic when swallowed but not cause any danger to the skin.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2010, 06:01:56 AM by dor123 »		Logged

I"m don't speak English well, and rely on online translating to write in this site.
Please forgive me if my choice of my words looks like offensive, while that isn't my intention.

I only working with the international date format (dd.mm.yyyy).

I lives in Israel, which is a 220-240V, 50hz country.

	Re: Induction Lighting video. « Reply #11 on: March 24, 2010, 12:35:49 PM » Author: Medved
@dor123: Dust in general: Yes, any fine dust become a cancer hazard with prolonged exposure, mainly in lungs. Phosphors in general: They are anything, but safe substances for direct skin contact. For sure i would not consider safe to bath unprotected hands in any such substance. I would be very surprised, if none of it's components are somehow toxic (don't forget solvents, adhesion additives, stabilizers,...). Mercury: It is an accumulating poison, so safe level is highly dependent on exposure time over whole life. When you break a thermostat at home, it is not as big issue, as your exposure to it will be of short time (assume you clean it soon). But when working with it 8hours/day, 5days/week, 40weeks/year, for 20year career, your exposure would be way higher and even the low vapor pressure at normal temperature in the air yield to very high total accumulated mercury levels.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2010, 04:21:30 PM by Medved »		Logged

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