Although this is sort of lighting related, this applies to many other broader things outside of lighting, so I put it in the Off-Topic section. Here we go:

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Lighting

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There are multiple kinds of people on this platform. Some I categorize as "coolness enthusiasts" who value the rare, interesting, or otherwise just cool lamps that aren't used much anymore. Then there are others which I categorize as "practicality enthusiasts" who prioritize functionality, modernity, and accessibility. Generally speaking, coolness enthusiasts are interested in HID, fluorescent, and LPS, while practicality enthusiasts are interested in mostly CFLs and LEDs. I personally find myself to be a coolness enthusiast, but that is irrelevant.

I think we can all agree that a significant amount of coolness enthusiasts are not only uninterested in LEDs, but are actively disliking them for one reason or another. A common belief among these people is that many newer technologies are cheap and unreliable. But, ask yourself, where would you be if it weren't for these new technologies? The things like MH, LPS, and fluorescent would be so commonplace today that they just wouldn't be cool. They wouldn't be collectible or valuable at all. One day, people are going to be collecting rare old LED lamps as antiques, and they will then be considered cool (crazy, I know).

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In General

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To all of the haters, we need to embrace all new technology with as much impartiality as possible. Some people choose to hate on the cheaply made products, which is completely fair, but good high-quality products still exist. If you think we need to make new technology better, then stop hating it and start supporting it. New technologies need refinement, and hating doesn't help!

I do my absolute best to be as impartial as possible with every little argument, every little issue, and this is a great policy to live by. I so often find myself with an opinion based on borderline nothing, and have to catch myself and consider what built that opinion and if it is really the right way to think about it. I beg you to not only give LEDs some forgiveness and think about current factors, but do so as often as you can for all issues in your life. I am diagnosed autistic, and I do not like change, but when something is right or wrong, that is the bottom line.

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I haven't ever talked about anything "deep" here yet. Thank you for listening to my Ted Talk lol.
 

As an HID guy, I don't hate LED. My beef with LED in the beginning was that they didn't get even close to there rated life before EOL, and with their high price, that soured many folks...quickly. The other issue was LED luminaires were/still un-serviceable...if it fails, it goes to the recycle bin...waste of resources. HID on the other hand was field serviceable/repairable.

I believe, I wouldn’t have fell in love with lighting, if it was exclusively all LED, back when I was a kid. There’s something extremely satisfying and fascinating about the way a HID light source starts up (or a switch start/preheat fluorescent), that any LED no matter how good, just can’t replicate…

I agree dudam001. The lights back when I was a kid (late 2000s, early 2010s) are what made me fall in love with them back then. Incandescent, fluorescent, HID, and everything else. Heck, even earlier LEDs as those were all sorts of unique back then. But now most lights are the same nowadays: LED. Not very exciting.

I don’t mind LED, but quite a few of them shifting colors over their life (mainly the yellow color I hate), some strobing at EOL, and the vast throwaway stuff being sold are the reasons I don’t like LED. Though on the flip side, most older LED street lights I’ve seen installed before 2020 or so are still going, and even the ones that shift colors horribly. I have older LEDs from 2017 and 2018 still going in daily use, ranging from barely any use to dusk to dawn.

I would definetely classify myself as a "coolness enthusiast". I absolutely love the blinky startup of fluorescent preheat lights, and I love the slow warm up on HID lamps.

I am not a LED hater, despite of my sometimes strong opinions about their non-serviceablity, and sometimes poor lifetime. (mainly on cheaper made products sold.) I also am not a fan of how their E-waste is treated, but now I am getting off-topic here. I should probably thank LED for giving me a interest in lighting as a kid. I would probably not have thought that much about lights if it wasn't for them. I still remember how amazing I thought my first ever LED flashlight was. LED felt unique to me as a kid. And it is thanks to them that my interest in lights in general began. I got to help someone install a few LED workshop lights and stuff when I was younger, which at the time, I thought was quite interesting. It was interesting how all those small diodes could make light. That is how I started paying attention to lamps. After I did that light installation, I started looking at lamps installed in different places, and wondered for myself how they produced their light, and how their light colours could feel warm or cold, for example. Things like that.

Then as I grew older, I started paying attention to fluorescent and HID lamps and I thought to myself "damn, this technology is really really cool, way more interesting than LED that just turns on isntantly and works. how come I have never thought about them before?"

I have had access to a small little garden shed for a large portion of my life here at my parent's property. I still live with them despite my age, which they don't mind luckily, because housing is so damn expensive after covid. but that's not a discussion for here. But this shed, is important for the context here. I learned how to set up a off grid solar power system thanks to it. Originally I had 3 small 10 watt solar panels, which I thought was great! So I used old salvaged car batteries to store some energy, and then I was able to power some compact fluorescent bulbs which I had in some of those old corded portable worklights which I hung up in the ceiling with zip ties. That was my first proper form of lighting system that I had put together myself! As time went on, I got more and more solar panels. I stepped up my game when I bought my first ever 50 watt solar panel. That's when I realised I had enough power production to recharge a bigger battery bank, so I got some more batteries, and then I soon realised I could now power even more lamps, and better lamps.

So then I salvaged two quite cheaply made, but functional, fluorescent lamps from the trash, and they became my fascination in some way. I just loved the colour, I loved how easily I could swap tubes, I loved the blinky startup. Sure, electronic starters exist, and they do prolong the lifespan of the tubes... But I still use good old glow-bootle starters, because a blinky startup makes me smile every time! If I remember right, they were fitted with Osram L36W/830 Eco tubes, which I still have somewhere still to this day!  So I installed those light fixtures, very sloppily may I add, but hey, they worked! I ran them from a very crappy inverter that I found in a junk box. I remember that I had to disconnect the power factor correction capacitors, because the square wave output from the inverter acted like a short circuit across them! So I removed them and the fluorescent lamps worked wonderfully. I was amazed. I had interesting, and powerful light, I was finally able to work on actual projects out there, and I was able to do so at any time I wished.

time went on, I kept upgrading my solar power system. Now, we are in 2025. I now have 600 watts of solar, a victron 35 amp charge controller, a 1200 watt victron pure sine wave inverter, a sonnenschein battery (and some junky car batteries that I am going to use until they go EOL)... around 10kwh of energy storage. I now have three Glamox GUN-236KL 2x36W fluorescent lights in the ceiling, mounted properly on a nice even wooden board, neatly spaced, wired up properly with proper cables and done the way it should be. I have had those lamps installed in there for a few years at this point, having occasionally installed different light fixtures in their place when I have wanted to test others, but I have not found anything that comes close to the performance of those, so they have always been my favorite and I have always returned back to them. I have had them mounted in several different ways previously too, originally I screwed them right into the frame of the house but that did not space them evenly and they were not mounted in a straight line which started bothering me more recently, so I recently (around 1 year ago) installed some proper wooden board, so I could mount them properly. I currently have them fitted with colour 840 philips, and osram tubes in them. I decided to try running one philips and one osram per fixture, to see who lasts longest, or gets dark ends first. I will probably not be able to resist swapping in some other tubes in a month or so lol, thats how it usually goes! But nowadays, I do not even need to think about how long I run my lights, I can run them all night, and the batteries are not even drained. And the recharge time is really fast the next day. I now keep my light collection out there, which consists of about 400 or so tubes total, and some fixtures too. I now work on electronic projects and experiemnts out there, and lighting is top notch. And I still use glow bottle starters. because fun. It still makes me smile just as much as it did all those years ago! I will never replace those light fixtures, and if I move, I will bring them with me. I love those. they are the late version with the improved tube holders too, so they don't crack or break. they are in quite nice condition. Not yellowed at all, actually! They are also fitted with the Low-Loss Glamox ballasts, which are actually very efficient compared to the early version of those fixtures that used the Helvar ballasts!


so there is my little story on my fascination with lamps, I hope it was enjoyable to read in some form!

 Lighting :  Regarding serviceable , over the last 30 yrs or so  , if either a lamp or P/C didn't fix it , it typically got binned anyhow ! Plus , unless you bought a OEM replacement ballast , it usually wouldn't fit without all sorts of brackets and modifications .

 I do agree that the fixtures that are 100% designed NOT to be serviceable in any form need to be eliminated . However , unless things like drivers and LED panels are standardized across the industry  , you're at the mercy of the manufacturer keeping parts in stock . Besides , even it all LED lights were 100% servicable like HID  , do you really think you'd be able to buy a replacement panel for say an ATBS in 30 years ?

 In general :  Everything and anything WILL get modernized . It's just a fact of life . HOWEVER , adding technology for the sake of adding technology is pointless ! I don't need bluetooth on my washing machine or fridge or toaster  . I don't need my fridge to tell me I'm low on milk ! Cars don't need to have a 15" touchscreen infotainment system ! You're there to DRIVE ! NOT watch a movie or play video games! Your GPS doesn't need to be on a screen the size of a movie theatre . A 3x4" is perfectly fine .  Our ambulances at work recently went to touch screen panels from regular buttons and switches . I've found that it now takes LONGER to find and turn on/off the function you want that previously . Factor in trying that while bouncing down the road at high speeds with a guy bleeding to death next to you

 We're currently working on an ambulance of which the customer wants to REMOVE all of the electronics and go back to old style relays and rocker switches for all functions to simplify use , repair and maintenence  !

I wouldn’t class myself as either 🤔, but then again it all depends when you were born, and what you grew up with?
Being a 1972 baby, I consider myself so fortunate, (as a lighting enthusiast), to have grown up to witness all 4 types in street lighting, (mercury, SOX, HPS and now LED)😎
Without doubt though, like you guys in the US, (with clear mercury), my interest in lighting is thanks 100% to the low pressure sodium lamp! 🥳🥳

My interest is primarily street lighting, but LED in street lighting is kind of boring!🫣, but for household use LED has revolutionised lighting the same way as CFL did!
My house lighting is predominantly CFL, but there is an LED presence mixed in with it 😎
Without doubt though, the best thing about owning your own home is your free to recreate that special outdoor lighting you grew up with 😁

I think HID always had a bit of intrigue on here because it wasn't that common for residences to use HID, even in North America where things like HPS wallpacks and MV yardlights were sold at retail. Plus HID has a very unique startup compared to other light sources. I suppose some fluorescent types had a unique startup as well like preheat and a large group of rapid start fluorescent lights starting up but since fluorescent was more common, it had less intrigue compared to HID.

I remember even back in 2008/2009 it was always something special when someone got their first HID fixture, usually a 175w MV yardlight as those seemed to still be common back then.

I think what soured a lot of people on here with LED is seeing old vintage lights that were used for decades all get replaced with LED and probably the other reason is the reduced diversity of light sources now with every lighting application converging towards using LED. Before you had street lighting primarily HID, commercial lighting primarily fluorescent and HID, and residential lighting incandescent and fluorescent/CFL, while the predominant source for all those spaces is now LED. 

The other is nostalgia, it seems the older members are more nostalgic towards incandescent, MV and T12 fluorescent while the younger members are more nostalgic towards CFLs, HPS, and T8 fluorescent and when you think about it makes sense since that was the predominant technology when they were respectively growing up.   

As someone who has joined the lighting scene relitivley late on, I have no issue with LED itself, I only dislike lights which have the reliability of a Maccas (McDonalds) ice cream machine. Other than that, I've got no issues with LED, in fact, LED is often times far better than a HID or Fluorescent light source, for example in underpass, or custodial luminaires, which can be slimmer, and much more flexable than fluorescent luminaires. They remove ligature points (for custodial application) and remove plwces to damage the luminaire in locations with a high risk of vandalism. Additionally, LED technology is dimmable, can be colour changing, or even just be a different colour temperature to better fit the application.

I'm most interested in the extinct or endangered streetlight sources, which is generally MV and tungsten filament, along with certain older (1950s-1970s) streetlight models, which I'm sure most of you wouldn't be too familiar with (namely the Optispec and various versions of the Wyt-Ray). With a good 6 decades or so left on my life, I hope to see my collection contain various fixtures which are simply not seen on the roads at that time! My main interest is streetlighting, though it's always diversifying. I originally got interested in streetlighting because of the designs of the fixtures, for whatever reason this intrigued me. Another part of it (which actually got me paying attention to the streetlights in the first place) was me using Google Streetview heaps, meaning that I could see the fixtures change over time, and eventually I started paying attention to the lights around me.

I am pretty young. What got me into lighting was replacing the ballasts on the F96T12 fixtures from magnetic T12 to electronic T8 (we have a bunch of T8 bulbs, and they flicker badly in the T12 magnetic fixtures). I thought the ballast was bad, but it turns out it was just the wrong lamps. I threw away the ballasts, unfortunately, but not before taking them apart (very messy!). In order to replace the ballasts, I had to look up information about fluorescent fixtures, after which I found this site and some others. I never knew there were so many kinds and that they were so carefully thought out!

Then, just as I was getting interested, Oregon began a ban on fluorescent lamps. The moment it was enacted, stores could no longer sell lamps that were manufactured after 2023 as new product. The ban applied to screw-base lamps in 2024, and pin base lamps in 2025. I noticed it about 2-3 months in, after I could no longer find any F40T12s. I started stockpiling after that point, mostly CFLs (which we never really bought - we went straight from incandescent to LED) and linear fluorescent lamps. I continued reading as much as I could about fluorescent lights and became more of a collector (as opposed to a stockpiler), eventually branching out to HIDs as well.

Now I would say I collect lamps mainly for the "coolness factor", not so much the practicality of it all. For me, it's the older the better, but I don't feel that nostalgic or interested in incandescent lamps because we never fully transitioned to LED (the front half of our house, which we remodeled in 2016, is mostly LED, the back half, which we finished renovating in 2011, is mostly incandescent). We also built a garage/office addition recently, which I made sure was equipped with fluorescent lights. We also bought several boxes of spares (I'd say were set for at least the next two decades!), and implemented keyed switches to prevent excess wear (the fixtures in the garage are, unfortunately, instant start).

At first, I hated LED. Well, more like strongly disliked. I found it boring and the representation of what's wrong with the lighting industry. But now I don't care as much about people using LEDs. They consume less power, start much more reliably than fluorescent lamps, and are fairly cheap to buy. Since they consume such little power, utility companies are willing to install brighter lights. If you are used to driving in a primarily LED city then go into an HID one, you will see what a difference they make. Of course, it's always sad when an LED replaces a classic fixture, but time marches on and we must accept that it's an end of an era.

As an HID guy, I don't hate LED. My beef with LED in the beginning was that they didn't get even close to there rated life before EOL, and with their high price, that soured many folks...quickly. The other issue was LED luminaires were/still un-serviceable...if it fails, it goes to the recycle bin...waste of resources. HID on the other hand was field serviceable/repairable.

I guess we think the same things. I quite agree with you.

To each their own, as the saying goes. I never paid much attention to, or had much interest in, lighting beyond the incandescents found in household lights. With LEDs rapidly replacing every other lighting technology, I am starting to realize how much of it I took for granted, and what's left of the "old" stuff tends to stand out more.

I personally don't have a beef with LEDs, although I do share many of the concerns already expressed here. It's not something I ever discuss (outside of LG) unless the topic came up organically, as opposing LED's isn't exactly a mainstream stance, and I really don't want or need the headache that comes with arguing about it.

With that said, though, I prefer incandescents both as a hobbiest and as someone who is mildly sensitive to flicker. As such, my home is almost entirely lit with incandescents and will be for the foreseeable future.

Change is an inevitable part of life, whether we like it or not. The key is to adapt and make peace with it - something that can be very difficult at times!