Author Topic: How to (pursuade builders to) open very rusted bolts ?  (Read 1951 times)
Ash
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How to (pursuade builders to) open very rusted bolts ? « on: July 12, 2011, 02:49:10 PM » Author: Ash
A mast with 4 floodlights was taken down in a place i sometimes visit, and i want to save them

Looks like they just crashed the mast with the bulldozer - all of them are a bit cracked, and from one only the support frame with a piece of GRP remains, and the reflector can be seen laying few meters away. Sad, but it gives hope that they will let me take the floods

Problem is : Besides finding the guys to ask, The floods are connected to the mast with VERY rusted bolts. I am sure they are seized dead, and at most will turn together with the nut through the hole but not open. Assuming i get permission to take them, i dont think they can be removed without power tools. There is no electricity nearby to power said power tools, and i dont thuink the construction workers will be happy to haul the generator up to there and fire it up not for work



How can it be done without power tools ?

How to correctly persuade the workers to 1. give the lights, 2. let use their generator

Edit : I got them and workinfg on restoration
« Last Edit: August 01, 2011, 12:34:48 PM by Ash » Logged
toomanybulbs
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Re: How to (pursuade builders to) open very rusted bolts ? « Reply #1 on: July 12, 2011, 09:18:02 PM » Author: toomanybulbs
i take 2 ratchets with proper sockets and wring the bolts off.that is if there is enough left to get a grip on.
not sure what kind of physical condition you are in either.
but plan b is ask and bring a bribe in the form of beer.gets those guys atention every time.
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SeanB~1
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Re: How to (pursuade builders to) open very rusted bolts ? « Reply #2 on: July 13, 2011, 02:58:20 PM » Author: SeanB~1
The drink offer would be a good try, otherwise you might have to be very nice.

As to the bolts, i would guess that you need a good 1/2' drive socket set, a power bar and a can of penetrating oil as a first try. Most likely a 17 or 19mm socket times 2 will be needed, and a fair amount of brute force to free the nuts. A good thing to do as well is to use a MAPP torch to toast the nuts for 3 minutes each before you try them, as this will make them easier to free. After you cook the last nut then spray the oil on the first, it will smoke a lot, but should come free with some effort. If the bolts are well and truly seized then you need an angle grinder, or use a hacksaw on the brackets, and accept they they will have to be remade.
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Ash
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Re: How to (pursuade builders to) open very rusted bolts ? « Reply #3 on: July 13, 2011, 03:00:34 PM » Author: Ash
Step 1 accomplished : asking to take the lights. After some questioning and walking (go ask him - go ask him - call this phone number - go to the office of the building company ask there . . . ) i found the guy in charge of the lights, and he allowed to take them



It was like that :
 
 (take pic of lights taken down, and pic of identical lights installed nearby still up)
 
 me to worker1 : I see some old lights there inside the fenced area, i;d like to ask to get them
 
 worker1 to me : I can't let you, and nobody will let you
 
 me to worker1 : I dont think they are usable, they'll sure be discarded
 
 worker1 to me : Then they will be discarded, thats none of your business
 
 me to worker1 : I want to see the manager
 
 worker1 to me : Go there
 
 me to worker2 ("there") : Hi i have a question to the electrician working on this site
 
 worker2 to me : He is away
 
 me to worker2 : Then the manager
 
 worker2 to me : In the office
 
 me to manager : Hi i see a mast with lights that you have taken down and it is laying on the earth in the fenced area. I would like to get the lights, can you give me them ?
 
 manager to me : Go ask the other manager
 
 me to manager2 : ...
 
 manager2 to me : Most likely you cant, they are not our property
 
 me to manager2 : Can you give me a phone number of their owner ?
 
 manager2 to me : Haifa council ...
 
 me to manager2 (showing photo) : They were installed inside the construction site
 
 manager2 to me : Ahhh so you dont speak about the cobra heads then go to the building there ask the admins
 
 me to technical admin of that building : I see a mast with lights taken down in the construction site (showing pic) they are same type as those in the parking lot (showing another pic)
 
 admin : Take them
 
 me to manager2 : He allowed me. Now can you allow me to enter the fenced area to take them ?
 
 (manager2 calls admin to verify)
 
 manager2 : yeah but another day too busy now
 
 (me coming another day, manager2 is absent)
 
 me to manager3 : I asked manager2 for some floodlights to take in the fenced area, can i tke 'em now ?
 
 (manager3 calls manager2 to verify)
 
 (manager3 goes with me and helps to disassemble the lights from the mast)



No beer used. Instead, one of the ffice workers i asked had some minor trouble with the computer and i offered to help (though it was not needed after all). Possibly this played here too



Step 2 : Can such bolts be hammered from the side (from opposite sides alternating) to fatigue and crack them ?

I dont have a blow torch or sockets. I do have a 1Kg hammer and pipe wrench

Is any brand of penetrating oil ok ?
« Last Edit: August 01, 2011, 12:32:26 PM by Ash » Logged
Zelandeth
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Re: How to (pursuade builders to) open very rusted bolts ? « Reply #4 on: July 13, 2011, 05:58:49 PM » Author: Zelandeth
You'll be there forever trying to break them.

I'd suggest a good fitting socket for both sides and penetrating oil (apply it a good few hours before going near it if possible).  Heat can be a great help I've found when working on the car and trying to shift stubborn bolts (trying to shift things which have been underneath a van for 31 years of road spray, mud and salt can be fun!).  That's only really viable though if there's nothing nearby that the heat will hurt. 

Failing that, if you can get at it to use it, a hacksaw may be your other option.  Just saw the head off.  Drill may also be another option (battery powered if as you say there's no line power nearby).

Reckon if you don't have access to sockets you're likely going to need to go for the drill/hacksaw option.  If you're determined with the hacksaw, just hacking the end off the mast might be an option too! 
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DieselNut
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Re: How to (pursuade builders to) open very rusted bolts ? « Reply #5 on: July 22, 2011, 02:10:37 PM » Author: DieselNut
I have a cordless DeWalt angle grinder.  If you have something like that available, you could take it and a couple extra batteries along and grind the bolts off.  A long breaker bar and high quality socket will probably wring them off, which may be easier.
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Ash
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Re: How to (pursuade builders to) open very rusted bolts ? « Reply #6 on: July 24, 2011, 12:51:24 PM » Author: Ash
Came out WD40, big wrench, and some help from the construction site manager (who happened to be there and was very kind) were all what was needed

I dont have time to examine them now, they are just waiting, but i will post pics as i examine and repair them later. All 3 are in very bad condition from water ingress, the ballast in 1 of them is fried to a crisp with severe scorch marks and in 2 are just very rusty, probably are failed too

All 3 have different model of gear (probably their gear had allready failed one or more times in the past, maybe from water ingress). 1 of them has 250w Tungsram SON-T HPS and 2 do not have any lamp, gear looks like 250 and 400 W HPS

There was no 4th floodlight there, just a wreck of the support frame. The reflector i seen laying nearby was missing in 1 of the 3 floods i rescued (and not from the 4th missing flood), so i put it back into it
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Medved
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Re: How to (pursuade builders to) open very rusted bolts ? « Reply #7 on: July 26, 2011, 04:44:44 AM » Author: Medved
Very useful for loosing rusted bolts is the old, oil based (it had temperature limit about 120degC; really not mixable with present DOT3 and DOT4 types; didn't attract water as the newer DOT3 and DOT4 do) braking fluid - here it was sold as tghe "red" fluid (made by Velvana), but I don't know the DOT standard for this, but I'm still sure there would be some equivalent in the "western world"... 

Other good aid is Phosphoric acid (Coca-Cola,...), this you will find for sure. But after loosening, it should be properly washed out, as it remain corrosion aggressive...
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