Author Topic: Ban on new HID street lights inevitable?  (Read 2449 times)
Silverliner
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Ban on new HID street lights inevitable? « on: June 19, 2012, 10:22:31 PM » Author: Silverliner
Its not official yet, but Philips is working with an international environmental group to try to get governments around the world to ban HID street lighting, no new fixtures made by 2015 and all changed out to LED by 2020. Philips was the one who started the incandescent ban as well. Here's the article:

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/led-street-lighting-trial-in-12-of-worlds-large\st-cities-shows-up-to-85-energy-savings-2012-06-17
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Re: Ban on new HID street lights inevitable? « Reply #1 on: June 20, 2012, 12:10:26 AM » Author: dor123
It can't be!!!!!!! Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked. There are no reasons to ban all of the HID lamps and only the LEDs will be legal. Many HID lamps are much more efficient than LEDs. And LEDs will never be more efficient than HPS and SOX lamps.
Dave: The link is broken. Also R U Sure that Philips is the source for the incandescent bans in the world?
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Re: Ban on new HID street lights inevitable? « Reply #2 on: June 20, 2012, 12:49:13 AM » Author: Silverliner
It will be interesting to see what happens. Some manufacturers like Cree and Philips are convinced LEDs can be the most efficient white light source available. Here's the original link, hope it works this time:

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/led-street-lighting-trial-in-12-of-worlds-largest-cities-shows-up-to-85-energy-savings-2012-06-17

Here's proof Philips was behind the incandescent ban movement:

http://www.newscenter.philips.com/main/lighting/news/press/2006/call_for_action.wpd

Cree also claimed 152 lumens per watt in a warm white 75w replacement lamp with a CRI of 91 (it is far from being production ready though).

http://ledsmagazine.com/news/8/8/2
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Re: Ban on new HID street lights inevitable? « Reply #3 on: June 20, 2012, 01:02:13 AM » Author: dor123
It can't be!!!!! I ban Philips, not buy any lamp from them anymore!!!!!! I bet that they do this in order to make money. What a capitalism.
Edit: Philips simply want to ban THE ELECTRIC LAMP (LIGHT BULB) (LEDs aren't considered electric lamps/light bulb, but electronic semiconductor diodes)
« Last Edit: June 20, 2012, 02:22:26 AM by dor123 » Logged

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Re: Ban on new HID street lights inevitable? « Reply #4 on: June 20, 2012, 04:34:49 AM » Author: Danny
These Lamp / Bulb bans are going too far!... If they keep going on the way they are we are going to be using candles again... Why cant they just bugger off and leave our lamps alone. (Thanks to Dor123 for letting me know about this topic)
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Re: Ban on new HID street lights inevitable? « Reply #5 on: June 20, 2012, 04:49:57 AM » Author: dor123
These Lamp / Bulb bans are going too far!... If they keep going on the way they are we are going to be using candles again... Why cant they just bugger off and leave our lamps alone. (Thanks to Dor123 for letting me know about this topic)
Exactly, LEDs=Combustion lighting in terms of fixtures disposable and maintenance. Like kerosene and gas lanterns and candles, LED lanterns are lightsources by themselves, meaning that they don't uses a replaceable lightsouce inside (Electric lightbulbs).
So if the main mechanism of the lantern fails (Burner in gas lanterns, wick in kerosene lanterns and candles, and LEDs in LED lanterns), it is necessary to replaces and dispose the whole lantern/fixture.
Also, have you knew that this site that calls all of the people in the world to move to CFLs, is a Philips website?
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Re: Ban on new HID street lights inevitable? « Reply #6 on: June 20, 2012, 05:00:56 AM » Author: paintballer22
Doesn't the government have better things to worry about than banning light bulbs and fixtures. Lets work on the economy instead interfearing with the free market. Angry Angry Angry
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Re: Ban on new HID street lights inevitable? « Reply #7 on: June 20, 2012, 05:09:41 AM » Author: dor123
paintballer22: Philips started this request, and the governments genuflected to PHILIPS.
Don't buy any lamp from Philips anymore.
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Re: Ban on new HID street lights inevitable? « Reply #8 on: June 20, 2012, 05:13:10 AM » Author: Danny
Well I have told quite a few people about this so-far. I just hope this is not going to happen as there is still MILLIONS of SOX, SON, MBF street lights out there... Does this mean they want Cosmopolis gone now??
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Re: Ban on new HID street lights inevitable? « Reply #9 on: June 20, 2012, 05:15:44 AM » Author: paintballer22
Not a problem I will longer buy Philips lamps anymore. I usually buy Sylvaina,Satco,GE or Topaz anyway.
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Re: Ban on new HID street lights inevitable? « Reply #10 on: June 20, 2012, 09:50:31 PM » Author: Silverliner
Man I think this is really crazy. Did you know that the L-prize of $10 million Philips won was rigged? The Department of Energy here in the USA initially required that any entry for the L-prize to be an AMERICAN company. Philips is Dutch, and the L-prize lamp was developed in the Netherlands. Philips paid $5 million to convince DOE to bend around the rules saying it is part of an international effort. The DOE claimed there was not a single failure out of 2000 samples tested. My utility here in Southern California was one of those testing some samples and one began malfunctioning, apparently the driver unit for the blue LEDs began to fail, leaving only the reds at full power. So far, I have yet to see any of these expensive LEDs sold at a discount here.

So that tells you a lot about Phileeps!
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Re: Ban on new HID street lights inevitable? « Reply #11 on: June 21, 2012, 02:05:24 AM » Author: Ash
By 2020 LEDs may actually be more efficient than any HID (i am not counting SOX here, mostly for the reason that it seems that ALLREADY everyobne turned away from it in favor of less efficient sources when we speak of day vision, and i dont think that anyone is inteding to give it a comeback)

But then , if LEDs in 2020 will be so great and all, the users will just go and buy them there will be no reason to ban anything in order to get them to buy LEDs

So the 1st conclusion is : LEDs in 2020 are going to suck. The users have to be forced into buying LEDs by banning other stuff, which means there will likely be a very good reason to avoid LEDs in 2020. Perhaps their proven reliability and 100K hours lifetime

It is actually possible, even today and even 10 years ago, to manufacture LED lamps that will last no less than a good mercury fixture. Just underpower the LEDs and use some magnetic/resistive ballast with full bridge rectifier and voltage limiter. But they are not - The manufacturers prefer to make something that costs cheaper, sucks, but made of recyclable plastic so can be considered "green" and promoted like that. In 2020, the manufacturer will take advantage of the technology to make it cheaper, and take advantage of better manufacturing process control to cut some more into design margins, and not to make a better product



Second thing i dont understand is :

Philips have, since they bought AEG, made loads of HID streetlights. They pretty much ban their own products, hoping that they will rule the LED market. Well i dont see why that would be the case, You dont need Cree, all you need is dealextreme to source some pretty goo LEDs from other manufcturers and make your own, BETTER, LED streetlights

Besides, they have the cosmo MH lamps that are so widely used in streetlighting today. And from what i see from you England folks, those cosmos are realy catching on. First, lots of those lights installed around means that Philips have sales on the cosmo lamp. Without those, they again ban their own product. And hey, many of those cosmos have electronic ballasts so if they are banned the ones allready installed are not going to last forever and need only replacment lamps



Third, consider this

Today a streetlight is all replaceable parts. If you have a street of ZX1's , and in 1 of them the ballast fails and blows the lamp. You replace the ballast and lamp and its working again, and from the street it looks a ZX1 just like the rest

With LED streetlights, imagine a street installed with LED fixtures, After 2 years the fixture is discontinued by the manufacturer, and the lights begin to fail. Then there will be 1 light in the street with different fixture. Then another one. Then another one, with another different fixture because the second allready is discontinued too. In a short time , the street will have 1 of every LED fixture existing, somebody won't like the appearance, and they ALL will be replaced just for uniformity. Green you say ?
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Re: Ban on new HID street lights inevitable? « Reply #12 on: June 21, 2012, 03:29:20 AM » Author: dor123
Did you know that the L-prize of $10 million Philips won was rigged?
A rigged award!?!?!?!? What you means?
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Re: Ban on new HID street lights inevitable? « Reply #13 on: June 21, 2012, 03:56:26 AM » Author: Ash
1. Philips ---[hidden]---> politicians 5M$

2. politicians ---[prize]---> Philips 10M$

Result :

Politicians cannot steal money of the prize directly, because the money can only be used for its intended purpose as defined in the budget, namely for the prize

But they want it anyway

Philips uses this. They pay the politicians significant $ in a hidden way, then the politicians give them the prize in the open for its intended purpose, so there is "nothing wrong" with it

The equation is :

Taxpayer : -10M$
Philips : +5M$
Politicians : +5M$
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Re: Ban on new HID street lights inevitable? « Reply #14 on: June 21, 2012, 04:28:58 AM » Author: dor123
Ash: Remainds me of our fake and very ugly consumption prize "Product of the year, Innovation award, consumers choice", that supposed to awarded to ןnnovative products, where in fact, it often awarded to products that have highly negative innovations (Electra-Bar water bar for its redundant and unreliable, touch screen control panel) or that existed in the market several years before (Electra Inverter variable output air conditioner, iGO Primo navigation (GPS) software). Often it is awarded for several years constantly for the same produces (Electra Inverter).
To get a product to win the POY award, the companies/importers (Many of the awarded products are stickers or imported) pays a lot of money and gets nothing when they recieves the prize.
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I"m don't speak english well, and rely on online translating to write in this site.
Please forgive me if my choice of my words looks like offensive, while that isn't my intention.

I only working with the European date format (dd.mm.yyyy).

I hope that LED won't replace all forms of other light

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