Author Topic: electronic hid ballast  (Read 2628 times)
marcopete87
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electronic hid ballast « on: February 05, 2013, 10:15:00 AM » Author: marcopete87
Hi, today i bought 3 CDM-R lamps with electronic ballast.
because the lamps are cdm, can i use quartz halide, or it may cause issues?
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dor123
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Re: electronic hid ballast « Reply #1 on: February 05, 2013, 12:48:58 PM » Author: dor123
I don't know. Philips tends to rate their ballasts for their own lamps only, and most of their electronic HID ballasts, are rated for SON and CDM lamps only (Lamps of Philips).
If this ballast operates at LF square wave AC current, you can actually operate all HPS and CMH lamps brands on it, but I don't know about quartz MH lamps, as electronic ballast for a specific lamp, may not be suitable to operate another type of lamp, where the magnetic ballast of the same lamp, can operate it as well (For example elecronic ballast for HPS lamps, may not be suitable for MH lamps, where magnetic ballast for HPS lamps would be suitable also for MH lamps).
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marcopete87
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Re: electronic hid ballast « Reply #2 on: February 05, 2013, 01:24:22 PM » Author: marcopete87
I don't know. Philips tends to rate their ballasts for their own lamps only, and most of their electronic HID ballasts, are rated for SON and CDM lamps only (Lamps of Philips).
If this ballast operates at LF square wave AC current, you can actually operate all HPS and CMH lamps brands on it, but I don't know about quartz MH lamps, as electronic ballast for a specific lamp, may not be suitable to operate another type of lamp, where the magnetic ballast of the same lamp, can operate it as well (For example elecronic ballast for HPS lamps, may not be suitable for MH lamps, where magnetic ballast for HPS lamps would be suitable also for MH lamps).
:-\ so i have to buy some cdm lamps...
thank for the answer  :D
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dor123
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Re: electronic hid ballast « Reply #3 on: February 05, 2013, 01:36:15 PM » Author: dor123
Wait for Ash and Medved. They can help you more.
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I"m don't speak English well, and rely on online translating to write in this site.
Please forgive me if my choice of my words looks like offensive, while that isn't my intention.

I only working with the international date format (dd.mm.yyyy).

I lives in Israel, which is a 220-240V, 50hz country.

Ash
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Re: electronic hid ballast « Reply #4 on: February 05, 2013, 02:50:27 PM » Author: Ash
I think it might not fall too far awat from the correct current/power if you use a "normal" lamp. After all it does work ok the other way around....
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Medved
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Re: electronic hid ballast « Reply #5 on: February 05, 2013, 03:47:22 PM » Author: Medved
Hi, today i bought 3 CDM-R lamps with electronic ballast.
because the lamps are cdm, can i use quartz halide, or it may cause issues?

At first, why do you want to use quartz, if you already have the ceramic lamps?

The usability between the lamp types strongly depend on the output characteristics of the ballast. The most universal one is the constant power (and I mean really constant power, not constant current like CWA ballasts have), as it would always deliver the correct power, regardless of the exact lamp characteristic.

But some ballasts for specific lamp types are designed to keep the lamp arctube pressure at given level in order to keep the color really constant over the life, even when that mean changing the real delivered power. These ballasts then rely on the exact characteristic of the specified lamp (so the design, shape, size, thermal coupling, the fill composition,... - so what you can guarantee only with the exact lamp type from the exact manufacturer) and count only on the specific aging effects of that particular lamp type. So using some another lamp (even similar looking, with the same rating) mean the ballast may get "confused" by the unknown lamp behavior (e.g. longer or shorter warmup, slower or faster temperature response on changing the power,...) and so may either shut the lamp down (evaluating the lamp as faulty), or operate it at wrong power ("identifying" it as a different rating lamp or falling into wrong operation point) or "pumping" with the light output (the arctube temperature regulation loop become unstable, mainly as a result of different thermal inertia).
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marcopete87
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Re: electronic hid ballast « Reply #6 on: February 06, 2013, 05:47:00 AM » Author: marcopete87
At first, why do you want to use quartz, if you already have the ceramic lamps?

The usability between the lamp types strongly depend on the output characteristics of the ballast. The most universal one is the constant power (and I mean really constant power, not constant current like CWA ballasts have), as it would always deliver the correct power, regardless of the exact lamp characteristic.

But some ballasts for specific lamp types are designed to keep the lamp arctube pressure at given level in order to keep the color really constant over the life, even when that mean changing the real delivered power. These ballasts then rely on the exact characteristic of the specified lamp (so the design, shape, size, thermal coupling, the fill composition,... - so what you can guarantee only with the exact lamp type from the exact manufacturer) and count only on the specific aging effects of that particular lamp type. So using some another lamp (even similar looking, with the same rating) mean the ballast may get "confused" by the unknown lamp behavior (e.g. longer or shorter warmup, slower or faster temperature response on changing the power,...) and so may either shut the lamp down (evaluating the lamp as faulty), or operate it at wrong power ("identifying" it as a different rating lamp or falling into wrong operation point) or "pumping" with the light output (the arctube temperature regulation loop become unstable, mainly as a result of different thermal inertia).

i wanted use quartz, because i want to retrofit 300w halogen light with cheap 70w r7s metal halide and light ballast.
i have retrofitted some with 150w G12 ceramic and magnetic ballast, but they are too much heavy :(

my project is portable energy saver emergency light to be used with 800w generator; 150w works well, but they are quite useless, because their weight.
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Medved
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Re: electronic hid ballast « Reply #7 on: February 07, 2013, 01:49:45 AM » Author: Medved
Then remain only to try it. What do you risk is only the lamp life, or the ballast shutting down, nothing more...
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dor123
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Re: electronic hid ballast « Reply #8 on: February 07, 2013, 05:46:33 AM » Author: dor123
This is the ballast that makes the fixture heavy if it is magnetic. Ceramic MH lamps aren't heavier than quartz MH lamps.
Ceramic MH lamps are more expensive than quartz MH lamps.
70W MH reactor ballast is smaller than 150W MH reactor ballast, so it can be lighter (And cheaper as well).

I think that all of the CDM range of Philips, are designed to operate only with HPS ballast, so if their electronic ballast is rated for SON and CDM, and it is supply LF square wave current, so this is actually an electronic ballast for HPS lamps, and unlike magnetic ballasts, electronic ballasts usually don't lets free choice of lamps (Only the lamp rated on the ballasts can be operated with it), so quartz MH lamps may be operated on magnetic ballasts for HPS lamps, but not on electronic ballasts for HPS lamps.

And as I've seen in Philips online catalog that their electronic ballasts are designed and rated ONLY for the lamps in their range (Ballast for SON, ballast for CDM, ballast for CDO) this means that if you put a quartz MH lamp or even a non Philips HPS or a ceramic MH lamp in your Philips electronic ballast, as they are rated only for Philips lamps (Even if they are LF square wave current), either the ballast will shut down the lamp, and refuse to light it, as it will detect that it isn't a Philips SON or CDM lamp in the good case, or will kill any non Philips SON/CDM lamps and all other brands of lamps that come in contact with it in the worst case.

Our Eltam EHID electronic ballast, are universal, so you can put any lamp brand and type of choice (HPS, QMH and CMH), with the only limit is the rated lamp wattage.

So either you must get an electronic ballast of another brand (And I don't recommended a ballast form the lamp manufactrers [Philips, Osram, Venture, etc..., as they may design and rate their ballasts for their own lamps only, as in the case of Philips], but only a ballast from independent gear manufacturers [Helver, Tridonic, Vossloh Schwabe, etc..., as since they don't makes lamps, they may want to allow their ballasts to operate any brand of lamps]), or to deal with the weight of the magnetic ballast, and buy a 70W magnetic HPS or MH ballast, to allow a safe operation of quartz MH lamps on a HPS ballast.
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I"m don't speak English well, and rely on online translating to write in this site.
Please forgive me if my choice of my words looks like offensive, while that isn't my intention.

I only working with the international date format (dd.mm.yyyy).

I lives in Israel, which is a 220-240V, 50hz country.

marcopete87
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Re: electronic hid ballast « Reply #9 on: February 07, 2013, 06:08:40 AM » Author: marcopete87
ok, i'll try some cdm r7s  :)
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