Author Topic: Why do filament bulbs always last 1000Hours..here's why. (REPOST)  (Read 2832 times)
imj
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Why do filament bulbs always last 1000Hours..here's why. (REPOST) « on: February 10, 2013, 11:00:31 AM » Author: imj
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4WPrTk90VZM This is also the reason for electronic ballasts failing..etc.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2013, 02:43:15 PM by imj » Logged
dor123
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Re: Why do filament bulbs always last 1000Hours..here's why. « Reply #1 on: February 10, 2013, 12:55:10 PM » Author: dor123
http://www.lighting-gallery.net/index.php?topic=2730.0
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Re: Why do filament bulbs always last 1000Hours..here's why. (REPOST) « Reply #2 on: February 10, 2013, 05:32:33 PM » Author: Medved
There is one thing quite common to all conspiracy theories, what make the quite unlikely to actually be the truth:
It is the too many people involved and still no one blowing any whistle...
While in daily life you could see, than no more than 10 people are not able to agree on anything, so how could 100's or 1000's of them, as those theories would require to actually work...

So let's stick to some facts:
In the engineering, just everything is a matter of some compromise. You simply can not have all at the same time: Cheap, long lasting, superior performing and beautifully looking product or so.
And all the time the compromises were made to optimize the cost of ownership (so all together: Product purchase, installation, but all the energy, supplies and maintenance it need over the complete life, recalculated to the value it bring)

The incandescents matured so, you have only one variable to choose: Either longer life, or higher efficacy. All the other was already quite worked out quite long ago.
So you could have either long lasting, but inefficient, or efficient and shorter lasting bulb. As the lightbulb manufacture become really cheap, making it inefficient in order to last long just become way more expensive than going to higher efficacy and accept more frequent replacements.

With the fluorescent (electronic) ballasts the compromise to be made lies between the lamp efficacy (with some, thicker lamps), acoustic noise (hum after the years of use), lifetime/reliability, efficiency, weight, comfort and cost.
So if you want lightweight fixture with instant on light, you have to use tiny electronic, but that would likely not last for so long.
If you want reliable ballast, you have to accept heavy, expensive and eventually humming magnetic ballast with rather blinky startup.
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dor123
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Re: Why do filament bulbs always last 1000Hours..here's why. (REPOST) « Reply #3 on: February 11, 2013, 12:51:02 AM » Author: dor123
Medved: In fluorescent ballasts, there are some compromises that can partially solved:
flicker free starting on a cheap and reliable ballast (Magnetic ballasts are cheap compared to electronic ballasts, yet much more reliable than electronic ballasts in the same price): Using thremal or electronic starter, instead of glow starter, or using SRS, quickstart or rapidstart ballast and low starting voltage lamp (Non retrofit T8, T12).
Also, many of the fluorescent magnetic ballasts (New and also many very old ballasts), requires to hold the ear on them, in order to hear their humming (Most 70's Eltam Perfekt-Start R1 ballasts, have such low humming levels).
So we remained only with the weight, 100hz flicker and ballast and lamp efficiency (Magnetic ballasts are very hot, but they can withstand their own heat, much more effectively than electronic ballasts, even if the latters produces much less heat).
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I"m don't speak English well, and rely on online translating to write in this site.
Please forgive me if my choice of my words looks like offensive, while that isn't my intention.

I only working with the international date format (dd.mm.yyyy).

I lives in Israel, which is a 220-240V, 50hz country.

imj
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Re: Why do filament bulbs always last 1000Hours..here's why. (REPOST) « Reply #4 on: February 11, 2013, 01:26:03 AM » Author: imj
I still believe it's in the interest of reaping in more profits in an unethical way. In one part of the video they found documentation of the 1000Hr stipulation which looked very serious and if it was really an innocent result of lamp life over efficacy why state it at all by the Cartel. The documentation in the books as showed in the video is the proof that it was done solely for reaping in more profits and no intention of progressing technology whatsoever. And it also looked like those who violated the 1000Hr rule were severely dealt with by the Cartel. Another thing I learned recently it seems like this Cartel thing applies to medical industry as well since whoever found the cure for cancer would be controlled by the big players whether it reaps in profits or not if it doesn't it gets tossed out which I think is also partly why they are still using radiotherapy because the machine that will never cure cancer makes money for the big players in the medical industry rather than selling a drug that cures cancer but that would be Planned Relevance.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2013, 01:48:52 AM by imj » Logged
Medved
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Re: Why do filament bulbs always last 1000Hours..here's why. (REPOST) « Reply #5 on: February 11, 2013, 02:27:34 PM » Author: Medved
@dor: But still the compromises remain:
The electronic starter does offer rather flicker free starting, but it is more expensive.
The SRS or RS circuits work only with some lamps, what are less efficient (T12) and/or need higher OCV, what mean more ballast losses and/or heavier and so more expensive ballasts.
Moreover SRS and RS tend to be flickery as well - when the lamp electrodes just pass the border of electron emission, so the lamp ignite, but the arc is not yet stable.
The humming of the ballasts very frequently does not come from the ballasts themselves, but form the vibration of the fixtures construction steel body, caused by the external magnetic field of the ballast. To solve this, you would need ballast with low external field (lossy, or expensive and heavy), non magnetic material (plastic degrade, aluminum is expensive), or use the HF ballast.

@imj: Well, all companies are founded just to make profit for their owners, it is pretty normal. (by the way (...) tried to change that in the Eastern block after WW2 and how that ended up - it was the "social responsibility" in real world...)

Yes, there is no science in incandescents anymore, all fundamentals are pretty well known, that is the reason why they could be made at low cost and still keep the life/efficacy very near the ideal curve.
And yes, by making incandescents to operate at higher temperature the lamp maker make more profit for himself. But as these are more efficient, the user profit from that as well. Who loose your money are the power companies...

And why all makers ended up on 1000hour life? There is no technical reason behind, as today the optimum is even on still higher efficacy / way shorter lifetime (as typical lightbulb burn the electricity worth about 100x it's purchase cost, so even half the life and 10% more lumens would yield cheaper light).
Marketing psychology. Because many people are not able to include the electricity cost into the cost comparison. So in order to "not look worse", no maker wanted to risk to be the first to go below the 1000hour mark, so all are making rather inefficient so expensive to run lamps.
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