Author Topic: M80 "HQI" Ballast???  (Read 10504 times)
BlueHalide
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M80 "HQI" Ballast??? « on: September 16, 2013, 08:47:49 PM » Author: BlueHalide
Came across something rather interesting today, an Advance (Philips) brand ANSI (M80) "HQI" ballast which I was called to fix (just needed a new capacitor). Unfortunately I didnt snap a picture but took notes on everything on the ballast label. It read, Advance #71A5880 HX-HPF Autotransformer" 250w M80 HQI lamp only. Nowhere does it say metal halide only "HQI" which I understand is metal halide but whats the difference? In the fixture was a Sylvania mogul base 250w pulse start MH lamp. If somebody has any info on what "HQI lamps" are exactly and what kind of ballast this is im very interested. Isnt a pulse start MH lamp M138? then whats M80? Also the core and coil was 3x the size of a typical CWA 250w MH ballast and equally heavier. Cap and ignitor looked normal though
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Medved
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Re: M80 "HQI" Ballast??? « Reply #1 on: September 17, 2013, 01:16:55 AM » Author: Medved
"HQI" is a German system code for a quartz metal halide lamp.
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dor123
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Re: M80 "HQI" Ballast??? « Reply #2 on: September 17, 2013, 05:15:23 AM » Author: dor123
I think that the company (Which is american and not a german company), used the name "HQI", as a generic name for MH lamps, as there are no reasons for non german companies and people to use "HQI" and not "Metal halide lamp".
And indeed: In Youtube, I discovered that the term "HQI" is a generic name for a high kelvin MH lamp for uses in aquariums in the US (All Youtube videos of aquariums MH lighting, that described the high kelvin MH lamp inside the aquarium as "HQI" instead as "High kelvin metal halide" or "Aquarium metal halide" in the title, were american videos).
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BlueHalide
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Re: M80 "HQI" Ballast??? « Reply #3 on: September 18, 2013, 12:46:43 AM » Author: BlueHalide
Thanks for the info. Ive done a little research on this as I am still intrigued, though have only gotten conflicting info on it. I contacted Philips, Venture, and Osram Sylvania north america divisions. First off Philips (Advance) no longer manufactures this ballast, it was discontinued back in 2009. In fact there isnt any manufacturer that produces an M80 HQI ballast for the U.S market. And the only lamp I could find that matches the M80 ANSI code is the GE Arcstream 250w E39 base 6000K Metal Halide lamp. Which isnt listed as "HQI" either which confuses things more. All high kelvin temp 250w metal halide lamps (often called "HQI") marketed for the aquarium trade, at least here in the US are either ANSI M58 (probe start) or M138 (pulse) none of them M80. One manufacturer claimed that the Advance M80 HQI ballasts were to offer a means of operating a european MH lamp in the US where a CWA wont work (The Advance M80 being a HX-HPF and not CWA). From what I understand Venture is the only company still mfg HX-HPF type ballasts for the US market, and the M80 is not included in their line. Lots of info though I still havent answered my questions.
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dor123
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Re: M80 "HQI" Ballast??? « Reply #4 on: September 18, 2013, 01:52:02 AM » Author: dor123
One manufacturer claimed that the Advance M80 HQI ballasts were to offer a means of operating a european MH lamp in the US where a CWA wont work (The Advance M80 being a HX-HPF and not CWA). From what I understand Venture is the only company still mfg HX-HPF type ballasts for the US market, and the M80 is not included in their line. Lots of info though I still havent answered my questions.
US pulse-start MH lamps, are compatible with the european HPS/MH reactors and european pulse-start MH lamps, are also compatible with the US CWA ballasts for pulse-start MH lamps.

Also:
http://www.kolmart.com/HID-ANSI-Code-Guide_b_3.html
M80 = 250W double ended probe start Metal Halide (Unusual and very rare format. double ended MH lamps almost always comes as pulse start and not as probe-start). Seems that this describes a specific high kelvin MH lamp for aquariums if most MH lamps for this application in the US, are probe-start. Double ended high kelvin MH lamps are also used, which may also be probe-start lamps, and hence the M80 and the "HQI" which is a generic name in the US, for aquarium MH lamps.
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I"m don't speak English well, and rely on online translating to write in this site.
Please forgive me if my choice of my words looks like offensive, while that isn't my intention.

I only working with the international date format (dd.mm.yyyy).

I lives in Israel, which is a 220-240V, 50hz country.

BlueHalide
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Re: M80 "HQI" Ballast??? « Reply #5 on: September 19, 2013, 12:10:05 AM » Author: BlueHalide
That website is incorrect with the "probe start" M80 lamps are pulse start and all M80 ballasts include a 4Kv ignitor. The GE Arcstream 250w M80 is a pulse start lamp (no starting probe or resistor). I decided to go back to that jobsite and remove that M80 ballast from that fixture and replace it with a typical M138 pulse MH ballast as the lamp in the unit is a M138 which has been operating on the M80 ballast for some time now. This M80 ballast has surprisingly similar output voltage and current specs to a 250w HPS (S50)CWA ballast, so I ran up a 250w HPS lamp on it as I dont have any M80 metal halides lying around, and the HPS lamp works perfectly on it. This ballast is a good collection piece as they are no longer manufactured and now command an extremely high price, I just saw one on ebay for $350.00!
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dor123
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Re: M80 "HQI" Ballast??? « Reply #6 on: September 19, 2013, 02:01:48 AM » Author: dor123
I think that by means of M80 for 250W MH lamps, they refering to double ended MH lamps with an Fc2 base like this .
Also, beware as unlike in Europe, where HPS and MH ballasts which can operate both type of lamps from the same ballast, when connected to a superimposed ignitor (And only when using semi-parallel ignitor, they are limited to HPS lamps only), in the US, each lamp designed for its own ballast, and you can operate in your S50 only 250W HPS lamps and 250W MH lamps that designed to be operated on this ballast from the begining (Like Venture Whitelux 250W and Philips Retrowhite).
Operating your a 250W HPS lamp on an M80 ballast can distroy the lamp.
Also, US HPS ballasts, are usually HX and not CWA, and also never heard about HX ballasts for MH lamps.
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I"m don't speak English well, and rely on online translating to write in this site.
Please forgive me if my choice of my words looks like offensive, while that isn't my intention.

I only working with the international date format (dd.mm.yyyy).

I lives in Israel, which is a 220-240V, 50hz country.

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Re: M80 "HQI" Ballast??? « Reply #7 on: May 01, 2014, 04:37:14 AM » Author: lights*plus
On the topic of ANSI ballast code guide, does anyone have info for C codes?

For example: The Philips CDM145/C/U/M/4K/ED17 is a 145Watt Metal Halide lamp run on C192(?!)

After a brief search on which watt is C192 supposed to be, I found the attached PDF. It shows the lamp equivalent to M57/M152 175watt M-H, and intended to be a replacement. What about the other C ballasts?
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BlueHalide
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Re: M80 "HQI" Ballast??? « Reply #8 on: May 03, 2014, 09:50:18 PM » Author: BlueHalide
"C" ANSI codes are beginning to pop up on ballasts that will also drive CDM (ceramic) metal halide lamps. Ive seen plenty of new HPS ballasts (S) ANSI with a second "C" code as well, this pertains to the ceramic metal halide lamp that will operate on this HPS ballast. It lessens the confusion of Ceramic MH lamps having HPS ANSI codes.
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Re: M80 "HQI" Ballast??? « Reply #9 on: May 04, 2014, 12:01:30 AM » Author: lights*plus
Searching a bit further, it looks that the M and C codes are the same? The C is used to denote that it's a ceramic-MH bulb? I'm questioning myself because I need someone to confirm.

Examples found..
Philips CDM70TC830 Mastercolor CDM-TC G8.5 70W 3000K C139
Philips CDM35TC830 Mastercolor 35W 3000K C130/E

Type C98-M98-C139-M139 are all the same 70watt? And C(M)130, the M is often in brackets, is also for 39W ceramic M-H bulb, apparently.
-------------------------------
On the discussion of M80 ballast and HQI lamps, original thread above, the M80 type ballast is of higher current and lower voltage than a regular 250Watt MH ballast to achieve the desired bluer spectrum. See...
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1391562
http://www.pnwmas.org/forums/archive/index.php/t-32656.html
http://www.canreef.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?threadid=3219&page=2
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2004/2/aafeature1
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Medved
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Re: M80 "HQI" Ballast??? « Reply #10 on: May 04, 2014, 12:30:40 AM » Author: Medved
The M138 look like just the M153 (250W probe-MH), so for a 135V lamp, with an added ignitor.
The M80 is really build around the European 90V arc lamps (where the "HQI" came from), so 3A.
The difference is not only the output current, but the load characteristic as well:
The M80 is a HX autotransformer (with capacitor across the primary just for power factor correction), so the current decreasing with increasing lamp arc voltage (a feature coming from the series reactor and in fact required for thermal stability of many European lamps). It requires the mains voltage to be long time within +/-5% tolerance.

The M153 is (mostly) a constant current CWA, so the current remain quite tightly constant over quite wide arc voltage range. And the CWA means, it can tolerate quite some mains variations as well.
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WorldwideHIDCollectorUSA
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Re: M80 "HQI" Ballast??? « Reply #11 on: March 13, 2021, 03:31:00 AM » Author: WorldwideHIDCollectorUSA
@dor, From what I understand, most North American high wattage high pressure sodium ballasts from 150w S56 to 1000w S52 are actually CWA ballasts rarely HX. In addition, a North American 250w S50 high pressure sodium lamp should run decently well on a North American 250w M80 HQI pulse start metal halide ballast because these metal halide lamps are electrically identical to North American 250w S50 high pressure sodium lamps.
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Re: M80 "HQI" Ballast??? « Reply #12 on: March 15, 2021, 05:11:50 PM » Author: James
HQI is the brand name for Osram quartz metal halide lamps.  In the 250W rating Osram changed its lamps in the 1980s to run at 3.0A vs the more common 2.1A for 250W metal halide lamps.  That helped them attain improved performance.  Actually they run at same current as 250W HPS.  However the HPS ballast cannot be used since the HQI lamp requires an ignitor pulse of higher voltage than the ballast insulation could withstand.  Hence new ballasts for that lamp type were required.  A regular 250W lamp would be significantly overloaded on an HQI ballast.
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WorldwideHIDCollectorUSA
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Re: M80 "HQI" Ballast??? « Reply #13 on: March 15, 2021, 07:57:28 PM » Author: WorldwideHIDCollectorUSA
HQI is the brand name for Osram quartz metal halide lamps.  In the 250W rating Osram changed its lamps in the 1980s to run at 3.0A vs the more common 2.1A for 250W metal halide lamps.  That helped them attain improved performance.  Actually they run at same current as 250W HPS.  However the HPS ballast cannot be used since the HQI lamp requires an ignitor pulse of higher voltage than the ballast insulation could withstand.  Hence new ballasts for that lamp type were required.  A regular 250W lamp would be significantly overloaded on an HQI ballast.



I was wondering if using a regular superimposed ignitor on the 250w S50 high pressure sodium ballast can damage the insulation as well? Are you saying that the OEM ignitor from a North American 250w S50 high pressure sodium ballast will yield a pulse that is too weak to reliably strike the HQI lamp?

In my experience, I had no problems igniting an Osram HQI-T 250W/D lamp on a North American 400w H33 HX mercury vapor ballast using an ignitor with added impedance designed to run 250w high pressure sodium lamps on 400w mercury vapor chokes and HX autotransformer ballasts.

Here is the link to the aforementioned ignitor:

https://www.lighting-gallery.net/gallery/displayimage.php?album=6271&pos=1&pid=195371
« Last Edit: March 15, 2021, 08:17:11 PM by WorldwideHIDCollectorUSA » Logged

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DISCLAIMER: THE EXPERIMENTS THAT I CONDUCT INVOLVING UNUSUAL LAMP/BALLAST COMBINATIONS SHOULD NOT BE ATTEMPTED UNLESS YOU HAVE THE PROPER KNOWLEDGE. I AM NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR ANY INJURIES.

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Re: M80 "HQI" Ballast??? « Reply #14 on: March 16, 2021, 04:38:11 PM » Author: James
Yes the HPS ignitor is too weak, for the HQI it requires 3.5-4.5kV.  Of course the HPS ignitor will work sometimes, but not 100% of the time and especially not as the lamp ages.
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