Author Topic: Headhache galore. (Full spectrum/daylight color)  (Read 4847 times)
RyanF40T12
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Headhache galore. (Full spectrum/daylight color) « on: September 28, 2014, 06:16:48 PM » Author: RyanF40T12
They are replacing the lighting in one of the gyms at one of my church buildings with this stupid Daylight color/full spectrum lighting.  Half of the gym was relamped this past week and the other half will be done when more tubes arrive.  I went into the gym last night and after being in there for a few minutes I started developing a very nasty headache.  I went over to the other side of the gym that still has the Warm White 3000K and after a few minutes the headache went away.  Went back over to the other side to finish putting a few things away and within a minute the headache was back.  This 5000K+ stuff is murder.  Gah!
This is what they are using.  No way will it last 10 years like they claim and I look forward to rubbing that fact in to the facilities manager along with how much money they just wasted on this in say.. 3-4 years.

Can't wait.

http://www.superiorlampinc.com/product_line/fluorescent.htm

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jrmcferren
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Re: Headhache galore. (Full spectrum/daylight color) « Reply #1 on: September 28, 2014, 07:45:46 PM » Author: jrmcferren
I would wait until the rest of the facility is re-lamped to judge the system based on color temp alone. Hopefully your headaches are only being caused by the mix of 3000k and 5500k lighting and your eyes constantly adjusting when looking from one part of the gym to the other. 3000k to 5500 K is quite drastic as is the 4100k to 6500k difference I have here at work.

Hopefully the (IMHO bungled) transition is what is the issue and not the color temp itself.

The lamps from what I heard are Philips Alto made under an OEM contract, but I could be wrong.
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Re: Headhache galore. (Full spectrum/daylight color) « Reply #2 on: September 29, 2014, 02:33:08 PM » Author: DieselNut
It is great that they are sticking to T12 fluorescent instead of caving to the LED craze.  That would definitely be a headache maker and horribly glary!  I actually like the color temp and color rendering of these tubes.  I have several that I have gotten from the recycle center.
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RyanF40T12
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Re: Headhache galore. (Full spectrum/daylight color) « Reply #3 on: October 01, 2014, 03:22:58 AM » Author: RyanF40T12
This building is all T8.  Was T8 when it was built in 1999.  We'll see what happens.  I'm converting 2 buildings from T12 over to T8 (we have to, per church HQ in order to satisfy EPA requirements/energy breaks or whatever) I'm saving quite a few of the T12 ballasts and T12 tubes, a mixture of Sylvania from the 90s-present and Philips from the 2000-2003 range.  The good news in this conversion is that we are at least getting the buildings back to the 3000k color instead of the 4100k color that they are at right now.  The color tone of the walls and carpet favor the warmer colors as well.  It's just this one building where they want the 5000K daylight stuff in it because one of the leaders in this building thinks anything below 5000K is too dim. 
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Re: Headhache galore. (Full spectrum/daylight color) « Reply #4 on: October 01, 2014, 02:29:52 PM » Author: themaritimegirl
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This building is all T8.  Was T8 when it was built in 1999.

What sort of ballasts? Magnetic rapid start?
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merc
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Re: Headhache galore. (Full spectrum/daylight color) « Reply #5 on: October 01, 2014, 04:37:35 PM » Author: merc
It's interesting to see that different persons have problems with different light colours. Don't know why but I've got a sort of problem with 3500K colour - it's irritates me, especially when mixed with true daylight.
Unfortunately, the architect who designed our offices (it was a woman which could explain this warm/neutral colour here) chose them for 4xT5 ceiling fittings. The light is too strong and disturbing that I'm turning it off immediately with the daybreak. (And many others do the same, tbh.)
I'd be so happy if there was that "stupid Daylight color/full spectrum lighting" :) because I don't have any problem with this colour.
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sol
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Re: Headhache galore. (Full spectrum/daylight color) « Reply #6 on: October 01, 2014, 07:56:46 PM » Author: sol
@merc : What you need is to have the 4 lamp fixtures wired each with two ballasts and separately switched. Then all ballasts on switch A would have 3500K lamps and all ballasts on switch B would have 6500K lamps. Then you could choose what colour you want a the flick of a switch.
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merc
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Re: Headhache galore. (Full spectrum/daylight color) « Reply #7 on: October 02, 2014, 04:08:14 PM » Author: merc
That would be great indeed. Unfortunately that would mean rewiring the whole office or using a wireless controller and a module inside the fixture, that would turn on the requested pair (or both of them, if really needed).
If I were the one who decides I would just change the tubes for daylight ones. ;)
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sol
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Re: Headhache galore. (Full spectrum/daylight color) « Reply #8 on: October 02, 2014, 04:28:26 PM » Author: sol
When I rant about something like this situation, especially if what I would like involves a big project like rewiring like this case, I always end by saying 'well they didn't ask me...' And if nothing else, it makes me feel (slightly) better....
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Medved
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Re: Headhache galore. (Full spectrum/daylight color) « Reply #9 on: October 05, 2014, 12:42:14 AM » Author: Medved
Well, having the possibility to switch between light colors in an open office could end up just one way: Daily "fights" among the staff about the selected light color, same as is happenning today about the airco temperature setting. You would wonder, how a full floor of engineers can easily forget the purpose and working of a thermostat...

Based on what I've seen and how that felt to me, it is really important to match the color to the illumination level (dimmer arrangement requires warmer color temperatures, stronger lighting asks for the colder colors): High illumination level using 3000K then feel really weird, and the dimmer installation using cold colors is indeed irritating.
The 4000K appear in the graph (I forget it's name; it describes the comfort color range vs illumination level) as "one size fits all" (therefore named "universal" by some makers), but if you look on the exact graph shape, it look like the graph was just "bended" a bit to reach for one single color fitting to all levels, I don't trust it's suitabilitu for both very low, as well as very high levels.

So don't those installations you are mentionning above more of the case of that color vs intensity mismatch?


And I don't speak yet about the mixing colors in one environment (3000K in one lantern, 6000K in the next one), the colorful shadows are really asking (at least me) for a headache...
« Last Edit: October 05, 2014, 12:48:10 AM by Medved » Logged

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merc
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Re: Headhache galore. (Full spectrum/daylight color) « Reply #10 on: October 05, 2014, 05:05:31 PM » Author: merc
Well, having the possibility to switch between light colors in an open office could end up just one way: Daily "fights" among the staff about the selected light color, same as is happenning today about the airco temperature setting.
:) I can image that vividly incl. discussions why this or that light colour is better.

So don't those installations you are mentionning above more of the case of that color vs intensity mismatch?
Yes, this is what I wrote - the light is too strong. If I'm alone in our cubicle, I rather lit the other row of lights, not those directly above my head. This makes this 3500K light more bearable. But I don't like this CCT anyways. (It's surprising that such a small step 3500K vs. 4000K can make such a difference.)

And I don't speak yet about the mixing colors in one environment (3000K in one lantern, 6000K in the next one), the colorful shadows are really asking (at least me) for a headache...
This could be arranged by central light colour selection (by a photocell) for the whole floor. But the photocell would have to be protected from tampering with and forcing the favourite light colour. (Don't take me seriously...  ;) )
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Re: Headhache galore. (Full spectrum/daylight color) « Reply #11 on: October 05, 2014, 08:25:59 PM » Author: sol
Or an astronomical clock locked away in some electrical room deep in the abyss of the basement...
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RyanF40T12
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Re: Headhache galore. (Full spectrum/daylight color) « Reply #12 on: October 08, 2014, 12:37:17 AM » Author: RyanF40T12
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This building is all T8.  Was T8 when it was built in 1999.

What sort of ballasts? Magnetic rapid start?

Rapid/Instant start electronics for the ones that are original in the building, (they have been failing steadily over the past 5 years)and are being replaced with Sylvania Rapid Start and Programmed/delayed start electronic as they go out.  I'll get you folks some photos soon to give you a better idea of what things are like.  And I've come to find out that I'm not the only one who has a strong dislike of the changes they have made in this particular building.  A few others have also complained about headaches and things being "too bright" now.  In particular in the entrance way/foyer where all the fixtures were replaced from 2 bulb T8s to 4-bulb T8 fixtures with the daylight bulbs in em.  I took 2 of the bulbs out of each of those fixtures last year without getting permission to do so, and apparently the facility manager noticed it earlier this year and told me to put them back in.  Bah.  Sometimes I have to sit out in that area when I help out with special events and when I do, I turn those lights off and turn on the incandescent table lamps and CFL artwork lamps.  Gives it a very nice feel and more folks tend to come out to that area when I do that to socialize and mingle.  Imagine that! 
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sol
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Re: Headhache galore. (Full spectrum/daylight color) « Reply #13 on: October 08, 2014, 08:12:29 PM » Author: sol
You could "delamp" some of the foyer fixtures by replacing some lamps by EOL lamps so it would look more "normal". You would then have to replace them in no particular pattern (not all inboard lamps, for example) so it would appear random just like if it was a real EOL.
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Re: Headhache galore. (Full spectrum/daylight color) « Reply #14 on: October 08, 2014, 10:33:54 PM » Author: Patrick
Are they using 32W?  Maybe the facility manager would be open to considering 25W.
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