xmaslightguy
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Somewhere There Is Light(ning)
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LOL at "brick on a leash" . perfect name/description for those in-cord transformer things...
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ThunderStorms/Lightning/Tornados are meant to be hunted down & watched...not hidden from in the basement!
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Ash
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12V to 120V inverters can be small (so suited exactly to the size of load) and are generally fairly efficient, 80%..90% is typical (this figure is actually for 12V to 230V inverters, but i imagine 12V to 120V are not any different). I dont see why to avoid them. Treat them as part of the ballast for the lighting, and count their losses as ballast losses if you do any math
The sense is :
- "12V" LED strips use resistors, which is pretty lossy way of ballasting compared to LED lights with switching drivers. And the latter are more common as 120V lights and not as 12V ones. So even with LED lighting, the inverter option may be not as inefficient as it seems, compared to the "straight 12V" option
- Fluorescents give better light than LEDs, which provides better visibility for the same amount of Lumens. You may suffice with less light to see as well. That means you can use lower power Fluorescent lamp respectively. It is quite possible that your energy use won't be higher than with the LEDs after all
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hannahs lights
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You mentioned that sometime your cabin will experience sub zero temps have you considered the effect this will have on your battery life? It may suffer a bit especially if you mean 0 F
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icefoglights
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ITT Low Pressure Sodium NEMA
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Sub-0F temperatures WILL happen. When it's really cold, I don't plan on spending much time there, because the trip just won't be that much fun, and all the battery will have to do is hold some charge. With the solar panels maintaining the charge, it shouldn't be a problem. When arriving in the winter, first things would be open the door, flip a light on, and get the wood stove going, than unload stuff, than if needed, setup the generator.
I'm still not that interested in the idea of using the inverters and line voltage CFLs. Seems like unneeded complexity on what should be a simple system. I may order some of the low voltage LED bulbs to see how they work, and will have a better idea of what would be needed, but it seems like they should do the job on their own. I could easily put in some 120v lights, but I'm liking the idea that 12v lights would work seamlessly either from battery or generator.
A smilier but less involved system was used by my sister when she lived at her cabin, but there was only one low voltage light, and it was incandescent. It would get you by until the generator was started or kerosene lanterns were lit. It could also only be charged from the generator. At the time, the gold standard for off-grid lighting was the gas mantle lantern.
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ace100w120v
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Yeah, a 12v incandescent and a car battery won't last very long.
I agree, no inverter is simpler. I'd have the inverter for things other than lighting. Although to be honest I've never been impressed with the brightness of 12 volt CFLs.
Yeah, I always thought of kerosene lamps as a fire hazard, but that's just me.
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toomanybulbs
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my off grid lighting is all 12v. 4' t8 for big areas and converted lamps of various types.some led some 12v fluorescent. its better to retrofit than buy cheap junk. many other items were chosen for efficiency and the ability to run direct from 12v. some were hand made.like desk fans made from 120mm computer fans. connectors are anderson powerpoles in the standard ARES/RACES setup. the stereo system is a jvc "boom box" that ran from 8 d cells.12v. it has cassette,cd,am/fm/sw.and uses detachable speakers.it now has a pair of jbl 3 ways on it. the outdoor fixtures are just cheap "jelly jar" fixtures with a mr16 driver and a 3up rebel star heatsinked to the metal body. possibilities are endless if you think a bit.and its all durable unlike lots of solar/offgrid stuff.if you build it right the first time there is little to no maintainence.
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ace100w120v
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Do you live off-grid, Toomanybulbs? Sounds like you got creative with your setup!
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icefoglights
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ITT Low Pressure Sodium NEMA
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A thought I just had, since I would be using low voltage, would be replicating the turn of the century wiring style, where a pair of wires runs along the ceiling on ceramic cleats, with surface mounted rosette or pendant fixtures along the run, such as seen here.
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toomanybulbs
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i am semi offgrid.but when i move to a place i am getting its south faceing roof will be covered in panels. then the grid only does the heavy lifting like ac. only 600w worth now.
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icefoglights
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the stereo system is a jvc "boom box" that ran from 8 d cells.12v. it has cassette,cd,am/fm/sw.and uses detachable speakers.it now has a pair of jbl 3 ways on it.
Come to think of it, I have an old Sony boombox with detachable speakers, AM/FM, cassette player and aux jack. I'll have to check, but it may have a 12VDC input. It hasn't been used in about 20 years, but should still work. It uses a physical switch to shut it off, so it wouldn't have the parasitic loads when off that a car stereo would.
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Medved
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The car stereo expect one of the "power" leads to be switched by the "ignition". It usually supplies a bunch of backlight bulbs, there the power comes from. But the physical switch is indeed a physical switch.
On the other way the car radios tend to have way better radio front end, so suffice with way worse signal (not only weak, but with a lot of pff band disturbance, strong nearby stations,...) on the antenna input. So if you get a car radio without the battery disconnect security lock or be able to deactivate it, a physical switch in the supply line will do all needed to save the power...
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No more selfballasted c***
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toomanybulbs
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put a complete delco monsoon system in a remote garage we use. it uses 12 ma in standby.with the weekend only use and fed by 100w panel and 2 golf cart batteries we ignore that. we put in the theftlock code and then disabled it so we dont have to mess with it if we do pull its fuse. free from a parts car.
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ace100w120v
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Yeah, car stereos are perfect for situations like this; they don't require 120v! Plus you can put good antennas on them easily, good for rural areas with sketchy FM reception. Don't ask me why I know this...LOL
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ace100w120v
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I'm thinking your idea of an inverter and a spark-gap range for the kitchen is a good one. I have a spark ignition stove at my place in Southeast (also off grid) and it definitely saves some propane not having that pilot light going all the time. I imagine this is going to be a dry cabin, right? I ask because of water heater possibilities if not that I know of...
12v is probably your best bet, as you said, for lighting. If your 120v stuff is minimal, even a 400w-ish inverter should do it. If you do want a bigger inverter, there at least WAS a larger used Xantrax (or maybe it was Trace) inverter/charger on the Fairbanks Craigslist...700 bucks for something similar to what I'm using back home, mine is a 2000 watt modified sine wave unit. Also look for a 1980s Heart Interface Freedom 25....2500w, you could run a skill saw off of that no problem! My house was 120v-native otherwise I would've done 12v lighting too. And despite popular belief, I will say from experience that every type of fluorescent light you can think of works fine on modified sine wave inverter electricity, I've had everything from spiral CFLs to a 2XF96T12 slimline fixture running on MSW long term without issues other than louder ballasts on MSW than they'd be on "clean" power.
I ran my whole, totally 120v but off grid house off of 2000 watts for years, it wasn't until relatively recently that I had more than a Honda EU2000i as a primary generator, I now finally have a 10Kw Isuzu diesel. Has a bazillion hours but it runs well. My dad still lives there and plans on putting in solar but for now burns about half a gallon of diesel a day.
Now, on a side note, I'm considering setting up an off grid system in a potential kinda/sorta dry cabin RV I'm thinking about doing. (See the surplus military trucks thread for that idea, thinking about eventually moving out of the dorms and into a homebuilt box in the bed of a 5 ton). Considering 3 8D lead acid batteries running maybe some 12v lighting, radio, etc. but also an inverter/charger, so I can charge batteries from whatever I can plug into, or get a Honda EU2000i as a generator for if I'm parked too far from an outlet I'm allowed to plug into. I'd also like to set this up with a second alternator so driving the truck around at times charges the house bank as well.
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