Author Topic: The reality of low cost, imported lamps  (Read 4229 times)
BlueHalide
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The reality of low cost, imported lamps « on: May 03, 2016, 12:28:09 AM » Author: BlueHalide
Today, I replaced a cycling 250w HPS lamp in a parking lot flood, and couldnt help but notice the brand "PUSKAR" stamped on it. The name sounded familiar but I couldnt remember where I saw it, that is until I got home and googled it. The two videos linked below I remember watching a couple years back and was surprised and shocked at the complete lack of quality control and the fact that these HPS lamps are completely manufactured by hand in a very dilapidated, poorly funded plant in India that seemingly only employs a few people. Notice how the bare arctubes are all touched by worker's hands and the worker at the end sitting on the floor packaging each lamp individually by hand. Incredible

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCuXrbmWudQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zl4qSZxUspE
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Medved
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Re: The reality of low cost, imported lamps « Reply #1 on: May 03, 2016, 02:01:24 AM » Author: Medved
Well, "hand made", that "is always the top quality", isn't it?

Touching by hand: With the first video I haven't noticed that (they are wearing gloves, that should normally protect).
But what surprised me was at about 9:30 at the evacuation stage each lamp glowed with different intensity (that means there are quite significant differences in the arctube temperature among the individual lamps, so that means with some the step does not went as it should) and no one cared.

And aroound 22:30 "Safety first": Look how something (the clock? - on top of the meter box) is connected just by simple wires into something appearing like a mains socket (no decent cable, nor plug,...)
That was just watching half of the first one...
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BlueHalide
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Re: The reality of low cost, imported lamps « Reply #2 on: May 03, 2016, 01:26:31 PM » Author: BlueHalide
Hand made typically means quality for just about everything, except lamps. From what I understand, to accurately get each lamp off the line to be uniform in performance, the manufacturing process should really be mechanized, using well calibrated machinery. Not to mention, the dirt and oil on the worker's gloves and hands invariably does get on the arctubes and significantly affects performance. Years ago I ordered some insanely cheap 400w MH lamps off of AliExpress ($6.00 ea. w/ Free shipping!) all three lamp's arctubes had a slightly different shape and were covered in fingerprints. After only a day of operation, the arctubes had scorched opaque-white and developed gray spots on the surface.

Im sure lamps can be made very high quality by hand, but its the lack of certain steps, like the simple cleaning of parts with alcohol or acetone after handling that significantly affects performance and life.

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dor123
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Re: The reality of low cost, imported lamps « Reply #3 on: May 03, 2016, 01:37:50 PM » Author: dor123
It is possible to make a top quality lamp by hand, but the price would be astronomically. Thats is why most hand made lamps that made by the labs of the larger companies, were all few engineering samples from each model.
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BlueHalide
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Re: The reality of low cost, imported lamps « Reply #4 on: May 03, 2016, 09:22:58 PM » Author: BlueHalide
I left this PUSKAR lamp in my work truck, but ill get a pic of it on here in the next couple days. There really isnt anything interesting or noticeably abnormal about it though, other than it appeared to have far too much getter mirroring around the base, like they overdosed the getter. But other than that, the rest of the lamp looked pretty normal. I wish I knew when this lamp was installed, as I am curious as to how long its life was before it began cycling.
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Medved
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Re: The reality of low cost, imported lamps « Reply #5 on: May 04, 2016, 02:32:34 AM » Author: Medved
Hand made typically means quality for just about everything, except lamps.

Well, it is except of everything. Give the same quality materials and same processing budget to a machine and let it adjust well and you will always get longer lasting and better performing result.
With the mechanized processing you have very easily all of your production perfectly uniform, the first step needed for a quality output. Of course you have to compare apples with apples (so really equivalent material, processing steps,...), so you can not compare when something is made of prime quality materials, with all steps rigorously followed, to some mass market cheap equivalent made of just whatever is the cheapest.

The "hand made" just means each piece is unique, nothing else. Technically speaking that is always lower quality than when the same is made by a machine. But with many items the quality difference (in the item's ability to function) is so tiny, the uniqueness of each piece when hand made boosts it's value way more (you buy an artistic picture because it is unique art and not because it perfectly displays the scene).

The machinery needs quite heavy initial investment (the machinery itself, the "learning" scrap,...), while for hand making the tools could be way simpler and way more universal, so for smaller batches it does not make sense to go for mechanized production, the money is better spent to get better quality input materials and so regain the quality that way...
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Re: The reality of low cost, imported lamps « Reply #6 on: May 04, 2016, 02:48:26 AM » Author: Medved
Consumer demand is what has driven the cheap export market to its size today. I think lamp collectors sometimes forget this, that while we don't appreciate cheap short lived lamps, consumers don't want to pay top dollar for something that "might" last longer.

Well, who started this were people like Henry Ford with this "Model T" car (he introduced the consumer marketing model into automotive industry) and similar. It was sufficient to last just 6 years (in real everyday use, not standing in the garage), the only strict limit was, it needs to cost no more than half a year pay of an average worker. But this factor was the prime reason, why he was so successful with it, it was just the right balance at that time. Even when it looked ridiculously cheap and cr**py quality compare to other production at that time.
By the way if you look to today's market, it is exactly what the cars cost today - the feature set, robustness, comfort and so on have changed a lot, but the cost have not at all.
And that is, how the lighting market works as well, only the optimal numbers differ. The only thing is, each new technology has to first find it's own optimal balance. With the CFL's Philips just way too much overshot the acceptable cost: It was based on just plain technical calculation (take the energy savings and "pocket" 20% of it), something, what may work with professionals deciding what to buy, but not for the general public.
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Re: The reality of low cost, imported lamps « Reply #7 on: May 04, 2016, 06:36:48 PM » Author: Ash
HPS is a lamp used mostly by "professionals", but lately i see them doing same or worse thinking job than the general public (install cheap stuff in commercial and industrial environments, ....)
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Re: The reality of low cost, imported lamps « Reply #8 on: May 04, 2016, 06:52:23 PM » Author: wattMaster
HPS is a lamp used mostly by "professionals", but lately i see them doing same or worse thinking job than the general public (install cheap stuff in commercial and industrial environments, ....)
It would be funny if someone put a 400W Metal Halide in their table lamp.
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Re: The reality of low cost, imported lamps « Reply #9 on: May 05, 2016, 04:55:33 PM » Author: Ash
As i understand it in the US, HID is fairly common as private home security lighting

Here it used to be linear Halogens in the 90s, Fluorescents (weather packs) in the 2000s, and now LEDs. HID is rare, its usually only few oddball homes that have a HID installed. Though the 150W double ended MH did some boom of appearance in the mid 2000s. In the past it used to be various small Mercury lanterns, now its most commonly 150W Pulse MH, less common 400W Pulse MH. HPS is rare to find in home installations

(Though my lights are 150W HPS)
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wattMaster
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Re: The reality of low cost, imported lamps « Reply #10 on: May 05, 2016, 07:56:36 PM » Author: wattMaster
As i understand it in the US, HID is fairly common as private home security lighting

Here it used to be linear Halogens in the 90s, Fluorescents (weather packs) in the 2000s, and now LEDs. HID is rare, its usually only few oddball homes that have a HID installed. Though the 150W double ended MH did some boom of appearance in the mid 2000s. In the past it used to be various small Mercury lanterns, now its most commonly 150W Pulse MH, less common 400W Pulse MH. HPS is rare to find in home installations

(Though my lights are 150W HPS)
In Florida, At least, HID at private homes is completely unheard of, Because everyone would want dimmer light, And they would say it was "Too ugly!"
But I have seen some houses with HPS in their backyard, More common than MH.
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BlueHalide
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Re: The reality of low cost, imported lamps « Reply #11 on: May 06, 2016, 12:12:50 AM » Author: BlueHalide
Come to think of it, whenever I am in Fort Myers, FL to visit family I dont see any HID on private residences. Its mainly quartz halogen or (recently) LED. I think mercury and HPS residential security lighting is much more a midwest thing, like where I live (Illinois). But that is dwindling fast with the unstoppable LED. I am even beginning to see LED area lighting on rural farms, an application in which the 175w mercury yardblaster was the workhorse for decades, the "quintessential farm area light"
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Re: The reality of low cost, imported lamps « Reply #12 on: May 06, 2016, 08:13:53 AM » Author: wattMaster
Haven't seen any rural farms using them, But that is likely because all of them are about 1 Hour away.
But I do see a few HPS and rarely MV on the street roads.
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tolivac
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Re: The reality of low cost, imported lamps « Reply #13 on: May 07, 2016, 01:01:23 AM » Author: tolivac
HID lights at homes and farms very common here.Usually HPS and mercury.
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Silverliner
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Re: The reality of low cost, imported lamps « Reply #14 on: May 10, 2016, 01:49:49 PM » Author: Silverliner
HID security lights are very common in California.
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