Author Topic: Malleable plastic to be the next lighting source?  (Read 1143 times)
Flurofan96
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Malleable plastic to be the next lighting source? « on: May 12, 2016, 11:18:36 AM » Author: Flurofan96
Take a look, it says its a threat to fluoresant lighting AND LED TOO

https://www.sparksdirect.co.uk/blog/do-the-flicker-free-fipel-lamps-mean-the-end-of-fluorescent-lights/
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funkybulb
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Re: Malleable plastic to be the next lighting source? « Reply #1 on: May 12, 2016, 11:31:04 AM » Author: funkybulb
I dont know what to think here,  sound boring also interesting,  hope it blows leds out of the water.
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Re: Malleable plastic to be the next lighting source? « Reply #2 on: May 12, 2016, 12:58:09 PM » Author: wattMaster
It's setting off my baloney alarm.
Sounds like a Scam/Vaporware.
It also sounds like EL lighting.
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Flurofan96
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Re: Malleable plastic to be the next lighting source? « Reply #3 on: May 12, 2016, 05:36:15 PM » Author: Flurofan96
Basically from what I hear from this article, its EL lighting taken to the next level

Since the 50s EL lighting technology can only produce enough light for car dashboards, LCD displays and nightlighting such as this http://www.lighting-gallery.net/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-95440

But from this article it could be that the EL based lighting source could be bright or brighter than high power LEDS and hopefully (fingers crossed) be much better light quality and reliability than LEDS  :o
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Re: Malleable plastic to be the next lighting source? « Reply #4 on: May 12, 2016, 07:14:33 PM » Author: wattMaster
But from this article it could be that the EL based lighting source could be bright or brighter than high power LEDS and hopefully (fingers crossed) be much better light quality and reliability than LEDS  :o
As with most things, It depends.
Led can have high reliability with lots of heat sinking or low power.
For LED to have high brightness, You just increase the power.
To have LED having high CRI, you use better phosphors.
And how would you drive this EL 2.0?
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Re: Malleable plastic to be the next lighting source? « Reply #5 on: May 13, 2016, 06:33:38 AM » Author: Flurofan96
Hopefully if it ever lands on the lighting shelf, this fancy so called EL based lighting source might be able to run off 240V without a need for a ballast driver as todays ballasts and drivers are the main causes of lamp failure.

And we don't want ugly looking heat sinks with LED light sources. We can remove this need with the hi power EL light source
« Last Edit: May 13, 2016, 06:36:34 AM by Flurofan96 » Logged

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Medved
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Re: Malleable plastic to be the next lighting source? « Reply #6 on: May 13, 2016, 05:03:51 PM » Author: Medved
Hopefully if it ever lands on the lighting shelf, this fancy so called EL based lighting source might be able to run off 240V without a need for a ballast driver as todays ballasts and drivers are the main causes of lamp failure.

Well, EL needs it's ballast - it needs HF AC source (it internally uses capacitive coupling)
And even when it may be made to just work on the mains AC, such devices are intrinsically very sensitive to overvoltages and/or too high dV/dt. I doubt the "EL2.0" would be any different in this aspect. So to make it robust enough for a real everyday use, it will need some ballast..And with that, there is no fundamental technical reason, why the reliability may be any better. Only the design quality and not using the components too close to their limits, so exactly the same as with LED's or so.

And here the LED's have already one big advantage: There is way greater engineering expertize in what the LED needs than with any new source. So it will have to go through all the painful toddler's disease developments before it may become usable. Again, no reason for this to take less time than it took with LED's. And all that with the LED's already attacking 50% energy efficiency (Yes, I speak about efficiency, as the resulting efficacy is then a trade off against the light quality, when optimizing the radiated power distribution over the spectrum) in converting the electricity to radiated light (speaking about mass market types, the lab demonstrators are already way above that), so the LED's will be already approaching the unity, before this become comparable with LED's today, yet with no prospect at all to significantly overpass the LED's on the efficiency (it can not radiate more power than it get from the power input, that is very certain for any technology anytime in the future), when the LED's are close to unity.



And we don't want ugly looking heat sinks with LED light sources. We can remove this need with the hi power EL light source

That is the matter of lantern design. There are endless possibilities to conceal the heatsink as part of the fixture body, it only needs the designers to use what is inside of their skull...
Don't be naive, this dissipates quite a lot of heat as well (relative to the power) and it will not like the high temperatures either, so it will mean heat problems the same way as the LED's.
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Re: Malleable plastic to be the next lighting source? « Reply #7 on: May 13, 2016, 05:11:46 PM » Author: wattMaster
Hopefully if it ever lands on the lighting shelf, this fancy so called EL based lighting source might be able to run off 240V without a need for a ballast driver as todays ballasts and drivers are the main causes of lamp failure.

Well, EL needs it's ballast - it needs HF AC source (it internally uses capacitive coupling)
And even when it may be made to just work on the mains AC, such devices are intrinsically very sensitive to overvoltages and/or too high dV/dt. I doubt the "EL2.0" would be any different in this aspect. So to make it robust enough for a real everyday use, it will need some ballast..And with that, there is no fundamental technical reason, why the reliability may be any better. Only the design quality and not using the components too close to their limits, so exactly the same as with LED's or so.

And here the LED's have already one big advantage: There is way greater engineering expertize in what the LED needs than with any new source. So it will have to go through all the painful toddler's disease developments before it may become usable. Again, no reason for this to take less time than it took with LED's. And all that with the LED's already attacking 50% energy efficiency (Yes, I speak about efficiency, as the resulting efficacy is then a trade off against the light quality, when optimizing the radiated power distribution over the spectrum) in converting the electricity to radiated light (speaking about mass market types, the lab demonstrators are already way above that), so the LED's will be already approaching the unity, before this become comparable with LED's today, yet with no prospect at all to significantly overpass the LED's on the efficiency (it can not radiate more power than it get from the power input, that is very certain for any technology anytime in the future), when the LED's are close to unity.



And we don't want ugly looking heat sinks with LED light sources. We can remove this need with the hi power EL light source

That is the matter of lantern design. There are endless possibilities to conceal the heatsink as part of the fixture body, it only needs the designers to use what is inside of their skull...
Don't be naive, this dissipates quite a lot of heat as well (relative to the power) and it will not like the high temperatures either, so it will mean heat problems the same way as the LED's.
...Which means more $, And then the lighting buyers might want to go to LED instead, Which means lower market adoption for EL 2.0, Which means it will go obscure and turn to a "Specialty" lighting, Which we would think means lower development, Which means less usage because of better light sources that have been developed, Which means the EL 2.0 will have a fate of something like the Nernst Lamp, Which means any existing EL 2.0 fixtures will be converted to newer technologies.
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Re: Malleable plastic to be the next lighting source? « Reply #8 on: May 14, 2016, 02:56:32 AM » Author: Medved
Since Edison's time, all lighting industry was about $$$ still doing the job.
So nothing has ever changed in that.
And against that were the different political pressures to help certain light types (just by "coincidence" those, where the government is involved somehow - it is industry in that state, personal interests, bribes,...). So that part haven't changed either, only the exact forms vary, but that are just technicalities...

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Re: Malleable plastic to be the next lighting source? « Reply #9 on: May 15, 2016, 08:33:56 PM » Author: Silverliner
Think LED will still be in use 25,000 years from now?
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Re: Malleable plastic to be the next lighting source? « Reply #10 on: May 15, 2016, 08:42:30 PM » Author: wattMaster
Think LED will still be in use 25,000 years from now?
We don't really know, Because modern lighting has only been around for about 200 years.
If it has the fate of gas lamps, Then it will technically be used, But not for general lighting.
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Re: Malleable plastic to be the next lighting source? « Reply #11 on: May 17, 2016, 02:16:21 AM » Author: Medved
Beside of the efficiency (it can not go over 100% in energy, what means about 150 to ultimately 550lm/W depending on the required spectrum properties), there is still the cost aspect and the convenience to use it.
Definitely not all light  in use will be electric, there will be systems using other forms of energy.
What is ued even today e.g. light accumulation - material exposed to daylight then provides illumination at night. No wiring, no electricity,... Today many emergency lighting systems are already using that concept - in the form of glowing stickers, guide stripes,...; they are only charged by the artificial lighting and not sun and last barely some hours, but that may improve quite a lot...
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