Author Topic: Full Spectrum Lighting?  (Read 8053 times)
wattMaster
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Re: Full Spectrum Lighting? « Reply #15 on: July 05, 2016, 09:26:37 PM » Author: wattMaster
Some "full spectrum" fluorescent lamp have a low CRI and are BS, as written above.

However I bought a Soora several years ago, which has a violet chip under the special phosphor, and the difference is clearly visible compared to a standard 2700K led.
I can't tell the difference between this led and a halogen bulb; the blue and the red colours look great, very bright and "saturated" (i.e. not greyish).

I also have full-spectrum Philips Natural Sunshine tubes (F15 and F20 tubes with a high 92 CRI): despite the 5000K tint, the reds and the browns look very deep, the overall colour is close to natural lighting and very pleasant. I was amazed when I tried them for the first time (and I'm an incandescent light lover!), although I expected poor light/BS.
My girlfriend use these tubes to paint illuminated letters, IMO this is the best light to work with.
I got one too, and it looked very nice, but a little dim, for a F15T8.
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Medved
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Re: Full Spectrum Lighting? « Reply #16 on: July 06, 2016, 04:54:51 AM » Author: Medved
For a high color rendering, especially the R9, you have to pay the price: To get the high color rendering, you need to radiate significant power in wavelengths, which do not add to the perceived light flux. And for the energy usage, it does not matter how much the radiation contributes, a watt anywhere in the visible needs about two watts in the primary UV the discharge has to supply. Regardless if it makes 550 lm in the green and/or 10 lm in the deep saturated red, it is all the time energy-wise the same 1W of radiated power.
This is just never going to change, regardless of the technology...
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wattMaster
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Re: Full Spectrum Lighting? « Reply #17 on: July 06, 2016, 09:06:04 AM » Author: wattMaster
For a high color rendering, especially the R9, you have to pay the price: To get the high color rendering, you need to radiate significant power in wavelengths, which do not add to the perceived light flux. And for the energy usage, it does not matter how much the radiation contributes, a watt anywhere in the visible needs about two watts in the primary UV the discharge has to supply. Regardless if it makes 550 lm in the green and/or 10 lm in the deep saturated red, it is all the time energy-wise the same 1W of radiated power.
This is just never going to change, regardless of the technology...
And the saturated red is where you need the most color rendering.
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sol
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Re: Full Spectrum Lighting? « Reply #18 on: July 06, 2016, 09:18:40 AM » Author: sol
I have some Osram Lumilux in colour 954. They don't really make that of a nice colour when you look at the lamp (they appear greyish blueish), and they're somewhat dim but the reds are rendered beautifully.
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wattMaster
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Re: Full Spectrum Lighting? « Reply #19 on: July 06, 2016, 11:39:35 AM » Author: wattMaster
I have some Osram Lumilux in colour 954. They don't really make that of a nice colour when you look at the lamp (they appear greyish blueish), and they're somewhat dim but the reds are rendered beautifully.
Where do you get those? It might make a good photography light.
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Medved
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Re: Full Spectrum Lighting? « Reply #20 on: July 07, 2016, 04:35:16 PM » Author: Medved
And the saturated red is where you need the most color rendering.

It is not that you will need that any more than e.g. blue (even in the contrary), but it is indeed the first part of the spectrum that become missing when the efficacy is one of the main parameters. The reason is just the low lumens from that part of the spectrum and the not that much lower CRI (you may still reach CRI90 and save about 10..15% lumen output).
So many high CRI products (I mean still the CRI90+) do sacrifice this part of the spectrum, just to maintain the lumen output and so efficacy. And of course, the general lighting products (CRI80+) never contain this part of the spectrum (unless it comes by itself as a byproduct of generation of some other part of the spectrum - typical example are incandescents)
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wattMaster
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Re: Full Spectrum Lighting? « Reply #21 on: July 07, 2016, 04:41:16 PM » Author: wattMaster
And the saturated red is where you need the most color rendering.

It is not that you will need that any more than e.g. blue (even in the contrary), but it is indeed the first part of the spectrum that become missing when the efficacy is one of the main parameters. The reason is just the low lumens from that part of the spectrum and the not that much lower CRI (you may still reach CRI90 and save about 10..15% lumen output).
So many high CRI products (I mean still the CRI90+) do sacrifice this part of the spectrum, just to maintain the lumen output and so efficacy. And of course, the general lighting products (CRI80+) never contain this part of the spectrum (unless it comes by itself as a byproduct of generation of some other part of the spectrum - typical example are incandescents)
No, but for meats, art, medical procedures, that is where you need the most Red rendering.
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Ash
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Re: Full Spectrum Lighting? « Reply #22 on: July 07, 2016, 05:15:10 PM » Author: Ash
The production of the meat itself harm the planet far more than any CO2 emissions related to powering inefficient lighting. Trying to "be green" in a meat display is about equal to trying to "be green" in cutting down forests with an energy efficient saw

By far not all arts need high Red rendering, or any high CRI at all. The art applications that do, usually use Incandescents/Halogens or a combination of them with higher K sources, that goves really excellent coverage of that part of the spectrum. Besides, Incandescents especially when dimmed down are about the only source that does not emit allmost any Blue or shorter wavelengths, that degrade artifacts on display over time. That is why museums of centuries-old paintings and such are often lit ultimately with dimmed Incandescents

Medical applications that need deep Red i'd expect that they need a specific wavelength and not the entire spectrum, and for that the best choice would be some LEDs made for the exact wavelength
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Re: Full Spectrum Lighting? « Reply #23 on: July 07, 2016, 05:17:29 PM » Author: wattMaster
The production of the meat itself harm the planet far more than any CO2 emissions related to powering inefficient lighting. Trying to "be green" in a meat display is about equal to trying to "be green" in cutting down forests with an energy efficient saw

By far not all arts need high Red rendering, or any high CRI at all. The art applications that do, usually use Incandescents/Halogens or a combination of them with higher K sources, that goves really excellent coverage of that part of the spectrum. Besides, Incandescents especially when dimmed down are about the only source that does not emit allmost any Blue or shorter wavelengths, that degrade artifacts on display over time. That is why museums of centuries-old paintings and such are often lit ultimately with dimmed Incandescents

Medical applications that need deep Red i'd expect that they need a specific wavelength and not the entire spectrum, and for that the best choice would be some LEDs made for the exact wavelength
So what's the point of high CRI or "Full Spectrum" lighting?
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Ash
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Re: Full Spectrum Lighting? « Reply #24 on: July 07, 2016, 05:39:40 PM » Author: Ash
For general purpose lighting applications, where higher light qualiy is wanted for any reason. For example shopping areas (not specifically a display of something), office spaces where somebody thinks that the full spectrum lighting isbeneficial against fatigue/stress (effect is very individual), and so on. Could go well at homes too for the same reasons (and be good solution for some of those who dont like the light of standard CRI80 CFLs for example), but most home users arent even aware that such option exists at all
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Re: Full Spectrum Lighting? « Reply #25 on: July 07, 2016, 05:42:05 PM » Author: wattMaster
We are just fine with our LED bulbs with CRI in the 80's. But I find higher CRI light to be more pleasing, but also the really low ones, like standard WW. I guess I like the extremes in CRI.
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Re: Full Spectrum Lighting? « Reply #26 on: July 07, 2016, 05:56:23 PM » Author: Ash
Above about 70..80 the CRI does not represent anymore the preceived light quality. All the colored squares of the test pattern allready appear in pretty much their "final" color and thats the end of it

Its all simpler. Some peeps are less sensitive and can suffice with CRI80 LED light, others more sensitive and will demand better, which might or might not show up in the CRI figures
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Re: Full Spectrum Lighting? « Reply #27 on: July 07, 2016, 06:00:00 PM » Author: wattMaster
Above about 70..80 the CRI does not represent anymore the preceived light quality. All the colored squares of the test pattern allready appear in pretty much their "final" color and thats the end of it

Its all simpler. Some peeps are less sensitive and can suffice with CRI80 LED light, others more sensitive and will demand better, which might or might not show up in the CRI figures
And WW does well in the yellow range, so that might be good.
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Re: Full Spectrum Lighting? « Reply #28 on: July 07, 2016, 06:14:23 PM » Author: Ash
All /D /CW /WW /"Incandescent equivalent" put out about the same bands in the spectrum, its just the quantities in the mix that are varied. So the light adds the cool or warm tint respectivaly but rendering of colors is still comparable forthe same light technology
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Re: Full Spectrum Lighting? « Reply #29 on: July 07, 2016, 08:27:36 PM » Author: wattMaster
All /D /CW /WW /"Incandescent equivalent" put out about the same bands in the spectrum, its just the quantities in the mix that are varied. So the light adds the cool or warm tint respectivaly but rendering of colors is still comparable forthe same light technology
So why does WW have 52 CRI while D has 75?
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